[Turtle]

Moontanman, on 09 February 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

What is the smallest caliber hand gun you can effectively use for self defense?

My personal favorite defense gun has always been a Beretta Jetfire in 22 short. I have carried it for many years including while hiking. I never leave without it in my pocket. Of course the first rule when hiking in the wilderness is to use the "Buddy System". This it means you NEVER hike alone, you bring a friend, companion or even an in-law because if something happens there is someone to go get help.
I remember one time while hiking with my brother-in-law in northern Alberta out of nowhere came this huge brown bear charging us and was she mad. We must have been near one of her cubs.
Anyway, if I had not had my little Jetfire I would not be here today. Just one shot to my brother-in-law's knee cap and I was able to escape by just walking at a brisk pace.
That's one of the best pistols in my collection...

and and then...

you don't need a gun moonster; your humour kills. when i go into the forest i avail myself of a large caliber handgun; usually a 1911 acp with 230 grain full-metal-jacket loads and an extra magazine. besides the power, speed of fire, and double safety, i like the military acouterment of a lanyard attachment when traversing rugged terrain. i am trained, practised and proficient in its use and maintenance from an early age. not only do we have bears, we have cougars and no end of armed pot growers, mushroom hunters, and plain ol' thieves and murderers. (one such dirtbag just a couple weeks ago murdered a park ranger a few miles north in rainier national forest. murderer was later found dead of exposure in a stream. as the ranger was essentially ambushed, her gun never came into play.)

besides taking the gun for protection, the forest is a good place to practice shooting without the expense to get on a range.(in safe areas of course and in compliance with applicable laws.)

Moontanman, on 09 February 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

Statistics... Lies... dammed lies, and statistics. Both sides of this argument drastically conflate the numbers to match their ideological beliefs.

i don't think there was any ideological agenda to the lies statistics i referenced even if the article containing them was taking the position that having a gun doesn't help. the statistics parts are simply accountings from doctors, hospitals, police and other bodies keeping records of gun related injuries and deaths. obviously you can ignore any information you care to.

Moontanman said:

A hand gun in the hands of an untrained person is not a good idea no matter where it's at. In an emergency a hand gun is about as accurate as throwing a rock while riding a bicycle. Hard to hit the ground much less a person, a laser sight can help but it's still a good way to have false bravado and get into trouble. For home defense a shotgun is far better, loaded with #5 shot killing your neighbors by accident becomes much less likely.

For the record i know people who conceal carry and most of them train regularly with their guns, but a couple I know shouldn't be allowed to own a sling shot, it's not a cut and dried issue by any means...

here here on the untrained, but someone trained and practised isn't necessarily inaccurate. agree on false bravado. while a shotgun has the advantages you mention, it's hard to wield and bring to bear inside a home, not to mention you can't carry it all the time and have to retrieve it to even use it. agree on no cut no dry.

Moontanman said:

Home invasions are a problem and they can result in horrific things happening to the home owners, i keep dogs, I know turtle loves dogs, but they do detour the bad guys, make them hesitate and give me a heads up. I have a 12 gauge magnum riot gun, all I need is a few seconds to get to it and the bad guys are in trouble.

you misrepresent me. it is dog owners that i love; not the dogs. i hate the dogs.

Moontanman said:

But shooting someone over property is problematical for me, as long as they don't threaten me with deadly force I am willing to settle for a stale mate until the cops show up. Most bad guys use hand guns, hand gun against hand gun with both sides being amateurs is a deadly recipe for both and for any bystanders. Anyone stupid enough to go against a shot gun with a pistol deserves a darwin award...

i agree it's problematic.

[Moontanman]

Mushroom hunters are dangerous? I love to

collect

hunt mushrooms, i have never had to defend my oyster mushrooms from anyone....

My shot gun has short barrel, and is easy to maneuver through close quarters with it, and my dogs let me know if anyone is around my house, they are quite good at it...