[Joker37]

Is it true that Israel is racist?

In what ways is it racist? I keep hearing that it's racist but don't know how.

[The Polymath]

These kind of huge, sweeping generalizations are one of the reasons why Isrealies (hope I spelled that right) are commonly discriminated against. Isreal cannot be racist, only its people can. However, it is almost certain that not everyone there is racist. Therefore, it is almost certain that the statement 'Isreal is racist' is false.

[CraigD]

Joker37, on 22 March 2011 - 02:07 AM, said:

Is it true that Israel is racist?

Asking an ambiguous yes/no question like this is more inflammatory than helpful, I think, and to be avoided.

As Polymath noted, it’s somewhat senseless to speak of a country or any collection of people with diverse personalities as having personality traits such as racism, because these traits are only applicable to individual people. I’ve known many Israeli citizens, some of whom were among the most committed anti-racists I’ve ever known, some of whom were among the most hatefully racists I’ve known.

One might argue that a country can be said to reflect the personalities of the people in positions of power in its government. Israel is a parliamentary democracy, where its executives are elected by coalitions of competing political parties, so tend to have short tenures and reflect differing personal and political views, so I’d say you can’t apply a racist/not racists trait to the country via this argument.

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In what ways is it racist? I keep hearing that it's racist but don't know how.

There are at least these bases for claims that some policies of the Israeli government and administration are racist:

• Immigration preferences. Per the 1950 Law or Return, immigration to Israel is guaranteed to any Jewish person. Some argue that people who are not “Jewish looking”, especially ethnic Russians, are denied this right, though recent Israeli court decisions seem to me to, in not refute this, be at least an effort to prevent it.
  
• Citizenship. Although many ethnic Muslims have become Israeli citizens in accordance with the Israeli “Basic Laws” (Essentially a constitution, which guarantee, in short, that anyone living in Israel who wishes it be granted citizenship), in some areas, particularly the West Bank and Gaza, this right has been denied.
  
• Leaders. Some Israeli leader, such as former president Ariel Sharon, have been accused of genocidal war crimes, such as the Qibya Massacre.

For over 50 years, many smart, well intentioned people have tried and failed to fix problems in Israel - its problems and their solutions are difficult and complicated.

[dduckwessel]

Joker37, on 22 March 2011 - 02:07 AM, said:

Is it true that Israel is racist?

In what ways is it racist? I keep hearing that it's racist but don't know how.

It's not an ambiguous question, it should be asked because a lot of people are thinking the same thing.

And of course Israel is racist - in the same way that Arab nations are!!


A picture is worth a thousand words:
http://www.mjtminist...org/Israel.html

[charles brough]

The Polymath, on 22 March 2011 - 04:09 AM, said:

These kind of huge, sweeping generalizations are one of the reasons why Isrealies (hope I spelled that right) are commonly discriminated against. Isreal cannot be racist, only its people can. However, it is almost certain that not everyone there is racist. Therefore, it is almost certain that the statement 'Isreal is racist' is false.

You know, the common perception on what "Jew" is is twisted. There are people who believe in Judaism and there are people who are born members of a "tribe." It is a doctrine of Judaism that if you are of the tribe, you are a "Jew" and subject to all the doctrines and traditions of Judaism. However, this is mere doctrine. It is only reality in that people believe it. Amazingly, nearly everyone is fooled into believing it! Even the Nazis were fooled by that it and look what happened!

The reality is that it makes no difference whether you were born of family that believed in Judaism or not. All that matters and determines who is Judaic is whether you believe in Judaism. If you do not, you are not a "Jew" no matter who your parents were or what you name is. Being born "Goldstein" for example does not in the least mean you are Judaic.

In other words,there is no such thing as a "Jew." The word "Jew" is misleading and should not be used. However, Judaic ideology does exist and has a tribal/race doctrine. It is to that extent, racist. We are justified in criticizing any or all religions as long as it is not done viciously, but to discriminate against believers of Judaism or just people with traditional Judaic names is wrong because it is wrong to discriminate.

This subject is developed fully in "The Last Civilization" where it fits Judaism into human social evolution, thus enabling us to understand both the consrtuctive and destructive effects it has had on the process.


brough

[Qfwfq]

The Shministim are Israeli youths who have the guts to openly dissent with the prevalent political orientation and who bear the consequences of refusing military service.

[HydrogenBond]

An interesting racial consideration, which is less a problem for religous types, are the Jews are considered the chosen people spoken of in the bible. Since atheist don't recognize the bible as the word of god, but the myths of man, how do atheists deal with this human claim of being the chosen race? Is that racist to an atheist? Religious people who accept the bible don't have the same technicality problem.

[dduckwessel]

HydrogenBond, on 22 March 2011 - 03:16 PM, said:

An interesting racial consideration, which is less a problem for religous types, are the Jews are considered the chosen people spoken of in the bible. Since atheist don't recognize the bible as the word of god, but the myths of man, how do atheists deal with this human claim of being the chosen race? Is that racist to an atheist? Religious people who accept the bible don't have the same technicality problem.

"(4)Speak not in your heart, after the Lord your God has cast them out saying...'For my righteousness the Lord has brought me in to possess this land': but for the wickedness of these nations the Lord does drive them out...(5)Not for your righteousness, or for the uprightness of your heart, do you go to possess their land; but for the wickedness of these nations the Lord your God does drive them out from before you...(6)Understand therefore, that the Lord your God gives you not this good land to possess it for your righteousness; for you are a stiffnecked people." (Deut. 9)

The chosen of God are those who 'keep his commands', in other words, those who love established truth, justice and equality.

[dduckwessel]

Qfwfq, on 22 March 2011 - 09:33 AM, said:

The Shministim are Israeli youths who have the guts to openly dissent with the prevalent political orientation and who bear the consequences of refusing military service.

I signed this only because I agree that no one should be made to participate in something against their will. At the same time however, and in line with my post, I am quite convinced that the whole story about the Arab/Israeli conflict is swayed in favor of wealthy Arab nations.

I added my own words to an otherwise one-sided petition finishing with, "I urge you not to punish them but recognize in them the ideals of democracy".

[HydrogenBond]

Not all Jews are spiritual. Some are Jews in name, for the advantages this can bring. There is a spectrum between the chosen faithful and the quasi-entitled by genetics and race. Even for the religious people who read the bible, there is no one size fits all when it comes to the chosen race. The conditions, in the bible include righteousness. There are examples in the bible of what does not work for the Jews. If one does not act within the spirit of the bible, but expects exemptions due to DNA, the chosen title can become racist.

It would like calling all Christians faithful, even if you are 95% atheist and have no faith. Your technical affiliation with Christianity from baptism gives you cart blanche; smoke for cover. The same is true for the faithful Jew versus the racist Jew. Being clanish, as though nobody else is good enough, but marginal spiritual commitment is racist. But to satisfy the condistions of God through faith is a different type of Jew; chosen.

[dduckwessel]

HydrogenBond, on 26 March 2011 - 08:11 AM, said:

Not all Jews are spiritual. Some are Jews in name, for the advantages this can bring. There is a spectrum between the chosen faithful and the quasi-entitled by genetics and race. Even for the religious people who read the bible, there is no one size fits all when it comes to the chosen race. The conditions, in the bible include righteousness.

I agree, the conditions are not genetic or race but righteousness alone as there are good and bad people from all races:

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Romans 2:29)

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...But to satisfy the condistions of God through faith is a different type of Jew; chosen.

It's not by faith but rather 'circumcision of the heart (spirit)' that produces a true Jew (inward righteousness).

[Racoon]

I believe this all true of Racism questions..

'Racism' gets thrown around a lot as a word to discredit objective opinions regarding nationality and boundaries.
People want to naturally protect what theirs from Invaders, foremost. Thats Basic human instinct.. So When your boundry becomes invaded by foreigners, you get defensive.. That is normal. But in todays climate you are supposed to accept it as fact of Globalization.. Not everyone is keen on that idea.

There should be a distinguishment between Predjudice and Racism... Most people are Predjuduced to a degree.. Few are Racist because Racism has Power to keep people down, compared to popular opinion of predjudicism..

I think every people has a sense of pride to where they belong on the Human Spectrum. And Predjudices are a Natural part of Human Evolution.

As far as it being "Racist", people throw that term around a little to loosely these days to make a harsh political statement against something they dislike. Every race and creed has a form of "predijudce" amonst them and against them in some form .

[dduckwessel]

Racoon, on 11 April 2011 - 11:37 PM, said:

There should be a distinguishment between Predjudice and Racism... Most people are Predjuduced to a degree.. Few are Racist ...

I think every people has a sense of pride to where they belong on the Human Spectrum. And Predjudices are a Natural part of Human Evolution.

As far as it being "Racist", people throw that term around a little to loosely these days...

I agree that we're all bias to a degree and that racism is a different thing altogether but I'm not entirely certain that racism is rare.

Unless there is some kind of equalizer (fair government) within a country then dissatisfaction among the masses is the result. What better way for totalitarian regimes to get the focus off their own failure to properly govern than to put the blame (and hatred) elsewhere, thus creating racism.

After WWII the Jews were forced to find a place to live as most of the world turned them away and what alternatives did they have but to return to the small parcel of land that had been theirs for generations? Granted, initially they had taken it from someone else and one could argue that it wasn't theirs to begin with but remember that divide and conquer was the way things were done back then.

The divide and conquer mentality still exists in pockets around the world (Middle East and Africa) and that won't change until there is fair government in those countries instead of small pockets of extreme wealth and large scale poverty everywhere else.

[dduckwessel]

Speaking of racism...

http://www.religiond...arab_revolution

[Racoon]

dduckwessel, on 12 April 2011 - 07:16 AM, said:

I agree that we're all bias to a degree and that racism is a different thing altogether but I'm not entirely certain that racism is rare.

Unless there is some kind of equalizer (fair government) within a country then dissatisfaction among the masses is the result. What better way for totalitarian regimes to get the focus off their own failure to properly govern than to put the blame (and hatred) elsewhere, thus creating racism.

After WWII the Jews were forced to find a place to live as most of the world turned them away and what alternatives did they have but to return to the small parcel of land that had been theirs for generations? Granted, initially they had taken it from someone else and one could argue that it wasn't theirs to begin with but remember that divide and conquer was the way things were done back then.

The divide and conquer mentality still exists in pockets around the world (Middle East and Africa) and that won't change until there is fair government in those countries instead of small pockets of extreme wealth and large scale poverty everywhere else.

If you want to use the Jews as an example, then you obviously need to take in the context of the situation.
The world being completely devestated after WWII and the Jews being systematically massacred..
Its hard to argue giving them back a piece of homeland after the ordeal.

The Muslims however where mostly absent from the fight overall, and harbor deep grudges that still fester today over that important parcel of property.

Racism being what it may, still requires Power to enforce its prejudices... Racism needs force, as opposed to popular or singuar prejudicial opinions

I have predjudices against 30 million illegal Mexicans entering our country, but I am not a Racist. I don't empower myself or others similar to me by trying to belittle, hurt, or take advantage of those peoples. To me its a matter of "abiding by the Laws set by our country" Its my opinion that you shouldn't be here Illegally. Thats not a knock on Mexicans or Latinos, but a reflection of having to abide by laws.

Africa and the Middle East are full of Racists..They will kill you over ethnicity or religion. Any religion that suggests murdering your fellow human because of belief, or lack of, deserves nothing less than scorn.

Racism is not just an Anglo-Saxon phenomenon.. It happens amongst all cultures and peoples. And will continue..