[Turtle]

so this new group of protesters is getting a lot of press & spreading to cities across the US. is Occupy Wall Street a flash in the pan, or a candle in the night? what do they want, and when do they want it? will they remain peaceful, or will they go rougue? will they consolidate political will, or splinter it to kingdom come? are they the liberal tea party, or the boston tea party? will they feed the hungry, or starve the rich? do they walk to the protest, or take their lunch? do they brush twice a day, or do they floss once a week? is this an american autumn, or an american fall?

i don't know, but whatever the case it's shaping up to maybe be a thing and fo shizzle it oughta be fun to watch. i heard dan rather prognosticate tonight that they will put a 3rd party candidate on the ballot and that Americans Elect 2012 will put up a 4th. who's on first? what? no who. who what?



here's a wiki history: Occupy Wall Street

here's the official web page: Occupy Wall Street

somebody with a keyboard said:

ows is growing. We will be in a thousand cities in this country by the end of the month - hundreds of cities in other countries. We will see General Assemblies on six continents.

Liberty Square has grown exponentially over the last three weeks. It is time to form a second General Assembly in Manhattan. We expect more to follow.

On October eighth at three in the afternoon a General Assembly will convene in Washington Square Park. At the same time Anti-Flag will play an acoustic set in Liberty Square in solidarity with our movement's expansion.

We are growing. Block by block – city by city. We will see change in this country, in this world. It will happen sooner than you can imagine.

[Turtle]

just finished watching the sunday round of network political news, and occupy wall street occupied fronts & centers. discuss.

Herman Cain steps up attacks on Occupy Wall Street protests @ la times

James Oliphant, Washington Bureau, October 9, 2011, 9:21 a.m. said:

Republican presidential contender Herman Cain amplified his criticism Sunday of the growing Occupy Wall Street movement, calling the protestors “jealous’ Americans who "play the victim card” and want to “take somebody else’s” Cadillac.

Cain’s remarks, on CBS’ Face the Nation, came amidst an escalating war of words between Republicans and Democrats over the merits of the movement, which has spread from New York to other cities across the nation, including Washington and Los Angeles.
GOP politicians in recent days have stepped up their criticism of the protestors, with House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) calling them "mobs" who have pitted “Americans against Americans.”

...
House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi of San Francisco on ABC’s “This Week,” essentially called Cantor a hypocrite for criticizing the Wall Street protesters while embracing the “tea party” movement.

“I didn’t hear him say anything when the tea party was out demonstrating, actually spitting on members of Congress right here in the Capitol, and he and his colleagues were putting signs in the windows encouraging them,’ Pelosi said.

Pelosi said she supported the movement’s “message.”
...

[Deepwater6]

I've been following this movement closely. I'm hopefull for it, but I don't have much confidence it will succeed. I'm digusted with the Tea Party's garbage and this is a fresh breath democracy.

The reason I'm doubtful of it's success is threefold. The system (set up by the rich&Corporations) is in such a way that if this movement wants to go further into the political arena they will have to take on lawyers and accept donations from mainstream Corporations. Blurring the cause, but as much I despise the tea party I have to give credit where credit is due, they have had an effect on the countries path albeit a stalemate of Congressional votes. I am hopeful this movement can do the same.

The second reason I have doubts about it were the photos of protesters in Philadelphia march to the Liberty Bell, which is a 50 or so miles from my home. Although it was heavy with anti-Corporation signs and people who were protesting Corps. role in PAC's and elections. I also noticed some signs with other causes. One person was waving a rainbow colored flag which I assume was a reference to gay rights. Anti war activists were using it to say "stop spending money on wars and start spending it on the people". As I am all for protesting corporate greed this splintering of the group will alienate some people. If they can keep it to just one cause they would be better off. see photo's below.

http://abclocal.go.c...381364&photo=13

Finally I'm concerned about everyday Americans who may agree with this cause, but they don't feel that things are that bad yet. Even chronically unemployed people still get unemployment benefits allowing them to buy food and go to Walmart to pick up cheap Chinese crap. As these benefits run out and more people lose their homes and belongings this may exacerbate the cause, but I think a majority of unemployed people are doing what they have to, just to survive and find any job they can. They are too focused on their own finaincial problems and don't have time for protests in their minds.

All that aside I am all for it and hopefull for it's success. I will more than likely donate to the cause. If for no other reason than what one protest sign stated..."It's class warfare and were losing"

[samantha360]

I'm not sure about these guys. Some of them know what they want and talk about what they want in an articulate manner while others would believe that some reptilian alien race have there money if you told them.

[Knothead]

Get the money out of politics


http://www.getmoneyout.com/

http://youtu.be/gIcqb9hHQ3E

[Turtle]

Knothead, on 11 October 2011 - 02:26 PM, said:

Get the money out of politics
get money out of politics

get the money out of politics said:

...From our former Washington Lobbyist, Jimmy Williams, here is a DRAFT of our Constitutional Amendment for public debate this fall:

"No person, corporation or business entity of any type, domestic or foreign, shall be allowed to contribute money, directly or indirectly, to any candidate for Federal office or to contribute money on behalf of or opposed to any type of campaign for Federal office. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, campaign contributions to candidates for Federal office shall not constitute speech of any kind as guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution or any amendment to the U. S. Constitution. Congress shall set forth a federal holiday for the purposes of voting for candidates for Federal office."...

i see little prospect that this, or any, proposal/bill to ammend the constitution is capable of passing. the republicans want a balanced budget ammendment; ain't gonna happen either. waste of time & treasure.

Article V - Amendment: US Constitution said:

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

source

right now we got 2/3+3/4 of nothin' but loggerheads. ah you whoreson logger-head, you were borne to doe me shame. ~ bard of avon

so the occupations go on & observers want a white paper. this whole thing has sprung up all organic like a weed in a crack in a sidewalk. we may just have to wait for it to bloom.

what i would recommend occupiers do while they are occupying with their berries and pads and droids, is to flood their representatives with e-mails, texts, tweets, and even some snail mail (inasmuch as the post office is going broke, they could use a boost.) remind them they work for you and tell them what you want them to do. now!!

[Knothead]

Turtle, on 11 October 2011 - 03:26 PM, said:

i see little prospect that this, or any, proposal/bill to ammend the constitution is capable of passing. the republicans want a balanced budget ammendment; ain't gonna happen either. waste of time & treasure.

Sadly, you're probably right. But perhaps, if the protests really start to resonate with the public, the next election might see a lot fewer bought-and-paid-for incumbents returning to their jobs. Perhaps even without an amendment the people of this country will withhold their votes from the puppets and put up some of their own. Preferably people who don't choose to run but rather are drafted or coerced by the people to run.
Perhaps in this day and age where the internet allows us to get real information and not just rely on television and radio commercials and newspaper endorsements there is a chance that a person or persons of character actually stand a chance of being elected even without the money that usually is required.
That's my hope for the protests. That it will unite people in a way that they will have the power of numbers to fight the power of money.

But then I'm just an old dreamer.

[Turtle]

Knothead, on 12 October 2011 - 05:05 AM, said:

Sadly, you're probably right. But perhaps, if the protests really start to resonate with the public, the next election might see a lot fewer bought-and-paid-for incumbents returning to their jobs. Perhaps even without an amendment the people of this country will withhold their votes from the puppets and put up some of their own. Preferably people who don't choose to run but rather are drafted or coerced by the people to run.
Perhaps in this day and age where the internet allows us to get real information and not just rely on television and radio commercials and newspaper endorsements there is a chance that a person or persons of character actually stand a chance of being elected even without the money that usually is required.
That's my hope for the protests. That it will unite people in a way that they will have the power of numbers to fight the power of money.

But then I'm just an old dreamer.

nothing wrong with dreamers of any age. i've dreamt of the drafting too, and maybe that Americans Elect 2012 business i mentioned in post #1 will do something of that sort. have you read up on that? the internet thing? rock on!!

meantime, ...occupy wall street

occupy wall street said:

Occupy Wall Street would like to express our support and solidarity with both the people of Boston and the 100+ arrested at Occupy Boston last night. We commend them for their bravery in standing their ground at great personal cost to assert the right of the people to peaceful assembly in public spaces.

http://occupyboston....-occupy-boston/

We condemn the Boston Police Department for their brutality in ordering their officers to descend upon the Occupy Boston tent city in full riot gear to assault, mass arrest, and destroy the possessions of these peaceful women and men. We condemn them for ordering this attack in the middle of the night. These people were not simply protesters holding a rally, it was their home, it was their community and it was violated in the worst possible way by the brutal actions of the BPD. Furthermore:

The Boston Police Department made no distinction between protesters, medics, or legal observers, arresting legal observer Urszula Masny-Latos, who serves as the Executive Director for the National Lawyers Guild, as well as four medics attempting to care for the injured. [emphasis mine]

These actions go beyond unconscionable, they're unthinkable. If this was war, the BPD could be found guilty of war crimes: ...

just across the river from me in portland oregon, the mayor is holding back on sending in the cops to clear the street & park(s) that the protestors are holding. 'course portland is under federal investigation for how often of late the cops have killed unarmed people with mental illness, so they have reason for not taking hasty action.

while i think the protests can draw attention to some key messages, if those messages aren't better defined soon then i fear the anarchists are going to start mingling in and start up with the violence and coopt the legitimate message(s). i'm not too sure the unions are a great addition either, not that i am opposed to unions, but only that they throw around big money at government electees themselves. we have a union flap here because one union is pissed because a new grain terminal in longview hired a different union. the pissed guys broke into the train yard and dumped grain from cars, threw rocks at "scabs" , and fought with police and reporters.

time will tell i guess.

[Deepwater6]

Reptilians eehhh?? OK, I'll vote for them. Anything I can do to disrupt the establishment, but where do they stand on the whole imigration issue?

I read on my local news station today that Occupy Phila. is costing Philly police 33k a day in OT. I imagine it's that much in other cities if not more. The funny thing is, I don't ever remember hearing from the media how much OT was spent on crowd control of "Tea Party" rallies or Squeeky Sarah pep talks?? Maybe the police were doing that for free to help stimulate the economy???

[Deepwater6]

Well that seals it. This BBC article is about how the Iranian leaders are saying that the "Occupy Wall st." movement will topple the US.




http://www.bbc.co.uk...canada-15278925

[belovelife]

well the interesting thing is that with all the cuts in spending, the cops might be as jobless as some of the protesters are

[belovelife]

[lawcat]

I have no clue about this movement. I like protesters in general, as protesters typically protest against specific measures they do not agree with. But I have no idea what these people are protesting?!?! They can't protest the gov't in general or wall street in general and be legit. They look to me like trouble makers.

[Turtle]

lawcat, on 12 October 2011 - 05:17 PM, said:

I have no clue about this movement. I like protesters in general, as protesters typically protest against specific measures they do not agree with. But I have no idea what these people are protesting?!?! They can't protest the gov't in general or wall street in general and be legit. They look to me like trouble makers.

it's looking like trouble makers to me too, if the shifty lot in portland are any indication.
kgw.com

what they need to do is some flash mobbing. everyone gets the word on their gadgets to gather @ a certain time in front of some unsuspecting sap's "place", block the way, have a drum circle, get on tv, pee on some shrubbery, then everybody leaves at once and meets for beer and joints @ larry's. rinse & repeat until the beer & weed run out, or until larry's girl louise gets back. i wonder how many of these folk are registered voters and if there is any registering going on during the picnic protest?

dude! that wasn't kool-aid; that was bong water.


i declare the movement over because i find myself wondering more about what lady gaga is wearing, or not wearing, and less about what these ball bags are doing, or not doing.

[lawcat]

Turtle, is it required to have a clue in order to be a troublemaker?