[Deepwater6]

The project of 6 men simulating a 18 month stay in space together has ended. From this article it seems everyone emerged just fine. It is going to be interesting when the data about the experience becomes available. Did anyone experience depression? Were there small medical issues they were not prepared for such as an infected tooth or ear etc.? What is their feeling of wanting to do it again for real in space?

As you can only play chess with HAL so many times without going off the deep-end, were they tired of the Puccini opera, Three Stooges video or whatever they brought in to keep them sane? Did the material they had available to them start to cause contention of those who didn't want to hear it played aloud one more time? I'm sure they have a new appreciation for headphones.

Never the less a fascinating experiment that should yield precious data when humans make an attempt at the red planet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-15574646

[Eclogite]

I wonder if anyone has dug up research on the behaviour of submarine crews. That would seem applicble. I would be surprised it it wasn't.

[CraigD]

Deepwater6, on 04 November 2011 - 10:03 AM, said:

As you can only play chess with HAL so many times without going off the deep-end, were they tired of the Puccini opera, Three Stooges video or whatever they brought in to keep them sane?

The Mars-500 crew could send and receive data, subject to a delay simulating a great distance from Earth. So they couldn’t text or voice chat, but emails and audio or video downloads were available. I assume their total bandwidth was limited in a realistic simulation the long-range radio capability of a large manned spacecraft, so perhaps all six of them couldn’t stream HD video simultaneously, but I expect they didn’t lack for new music and a reasonable amount of video.

I’ve noticed that various articles and websites, even the official ones, show different layouts for the Mars-500 “ship”, such as this one:

or this one:

so I searched around to find this actual photo of the outside of it, including the shell building that encloses it:

(from this 14 Feb 2011 paperblog.com page)
which seems to resemble the 2nd diagram, with an ordinary, rather than a spriral staircase between the spacecraft modules and the Mars surface.

Though the Moscow facility cost millions of dollars, I can imagine that, with all this publicity, unemployed would-be astronauts around the world may be looking for modest funding and cobbling together simulated spaceships out of old mobile homes and the like. You might even be able to make money at it – commercial “simulated space tourism”.

[MacPhee]

The Mars 500 thing makes me so sad.

Is this what we've come to - rabbiting on about a "pretend" voyage to Mars. Who cares about such silly Russian fantasising. Why aren't we sending US spacemen there, not in ruddy simulators, but in real, honest-to-God, American-built, proper Spaceships. Apollo was a superb start. It showed what real engineering can achieve.

From that start, the US ought, by now, to have an Lunar colony in Clavius. And be building US bases on Mars. But there aren't any.

You Americans have let us down. Is it because you keep electing no-good Presidents? When will you start to make good in Space?

[Qfwfq]

MacPhee, on 25 December 2011 - 01:05 PM, said:

You Americans have let us down. Is it because you keep electing no-good Presidents?

What's the point of relying on the Yankees if you're so disappointed with them. Instead of telling them what do do and which politicians to vote for, why don't you just plain tell Cameron to get crackin' at it?

[Moontanman]

Qfwfq, on 31 December 2011 - 09:12 AM, said:

What's the point of relying on the Yankees if you're so disappointed with them. Instead of telling them what do do and which politicians to vote for, why don't you just plain tell Cameron to get crackin' at it?

The different is that the USA could easily afford to do it if we could just stop trying to prove we have the biggest penis... I mean military in the world...

[Qfwfq]

Moontanman, on 03 January 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

The different is that the USA could easily afford to do it if we could just stop trying to prove we have the biggest penis... I mean military in the world...

No doubt about that, despite all these debt woes, but I don't think the EU (if not the UK alone) would be much less able. If they wanted to, that is.

What I question more is the sense of putting real live apes on Mars. Putting them on the Moon was... well, maybe not penis size but shoulder width instead. Today's robots could have done the same as apes back then. Actually, it wasn't even long before Viking I after all.

This post has been edited by Qfwfq: 04 January 2012 - 05:03 AM
Reason for edit: post scriptum

[maddog]

Well the latest according to our illustrious president that our military will now have smaller but smarter penises...

For such a long trip we need to be sure we can do this before we subject people to it. No takebacks in this case.
I'm sad though that we still not simulating the "true" environment. We should have blasting this structure with the
bulk of particles and radiation thought to be that area of space from Earth to Mars. We know how hazardous this
environment is. We've sent satellites there. A trip with current technology is about $40 Trillion. The world govt
have all been engaged in bad habits of spending more than they got. This is why the world economy is in such a
mess. That has to be fixed before taking on such an enormous expense.

Just my 2 cents.

maddog

[CraigD]

maddog, on 06 January 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Well the latest according to our illustrious president that our military will now have smaller but smarter penises...

But still, by far, bigger than any other nation’s permanent standing ... ehhm, best I think to abandon this metaphor now – it’s just too apt.

Quote

I'm sad though that we still not simulating the "true" environment. We should have blasting this structure with the bulk of particles and radiation thought to be that area of space from Earth to Mars.

I expect It’d be a lot harder getting volunteers for that simulated mission, though.

The space radiation health issue is an interesting one, implying that, with the sort of manned spacecraft that are likely to be flown in the next decade or two (that is, nothing like a 100,000,000 kg + hollowed out asteroid or similar thick-walled one), if not truly a suicide mission, a Mars trip is at least a significantly life expectancy-shortening mission. The glamour of the prospect of being a Mars astronaut is offset by the likelihood that you’ll end your days with an ignoble, enfeebled, painful death.

This leads to an interesting, at least from a science fiction plotting perspective, possibility: that Mars astronauts should be chosen from a pool of qualified old people or people who already have slowly progressing, non-debilitating terminal diseases. That’s some change in image for astronauts, from the youthful, healthy one of the 1960s!

Of the big national space programs, China’s seems to me the only one to have much publicizes this, with there “only married with children” policy for female astronaut candidates (see, for example, Time’s 25 Mar 2011 article China's Female Astronauts: Must Be a Married Mom).

[belovelife]

other considerations also

would an older person be able to live to a reasonable age, food and the sort,

would they take an array of antibiotics with them if they got infected with a matian bacteria
why not make it a old folk home

retirees that know they can safely make it there

all they need to be able to do is run computer controlled equipment

-------------------------------

then again the issues with older people and bone density for landing may be too much for the heart

i still believe in the send a rocket there to make the ch4 for takeoff, ad then make sure it can be checked for issues

like foregn objects in the fuel, or even life in the fuel

so many options, but still, anyone interested in going into space, would probably jump at an opportunity to be the first to land on mars

myself included

[CraigD]

Hey, belovelife, how ‘bout some capitalization and punctuation?! We’re not a publishing house, but all lower case and no punctuation is just ugly!

belovelife, on 06 January 2012 - 10:59 PM, said:

Why not make it [Mars] an old folk home?

On the upside, the reduced gravity (about 38% Earth’s) would be great for reducing pressure on old bones and joints, reducing lower body edema, and would greatly lessen the chance of injury in a fall.

On the downside, the outdoors is barren and alien, and you’ve got to wear a spacesuit to go out there. Wildlife hobbies like birding would be a no-go, other than at whatever small zoos could be sent there and kept indoors.

Retired people often suffer from SAD, which is due in part to getting insufficient sunlight. Mars get less than half the sunlight Earth does (though what it does get is full of UV rays and other harshness, owing to its thin atmosphere). Given that its difficult and dangerous to go outside, though, I guess this is irrelevant. Still, Mars could be a scary and depressing place to live – in the word of Elton John “Mars ain’t the kind of place to raise your kids”, and as a rule, kid-unfriendly places tend to be psychologically unfriendly to humans of all ages.

The main drawback, though, is cost. Assuming all the engineering details could be worked out, at present, it currently costs, at the cheapest, launching stuff into space (not just low-Earth orbit, but escape) cost US$13,000/kg, so the average 77 kg person, no luggage included, would owe at least US$1,000,000 just for the trip off Earth – a bit rich for most retirees

Quote

Would they take an array of antibiotics with them if they got infected with a Martian bacteria?

Catching a disease from some organism native to Mars is around the least likely of your worries, as, as best many pretty well-designed direct test for it by robot probes have been able to detect, Mars is a totally lifeless, sterile planet. Most concerns about biological infection are not for something Martian infecting something Terrestrial, but for some Earth organism getting to Mars and finding an ecological niche in which it could adapt and survive.

Among the worst case medical scenarios for disease on Mars is some benign or mildly pathogenic human-born organism evolving in low-gravity, low-light, no-larger ecology Martian conditions into something unprecedentedly weird and dangerous. A great unknown is the long term health impact of 0.38 normal Earth gravity on humans, which is fairly certain to have some negative consequences – but precisely what, it’s hard to guess.

Quote

then again the issues with older people and bone density for landing may be too much for the heart

Again, not a major worry, I think.

Although some of the vehicles landed on Mars since we started doing it in the 1970s have landed pretty hard, that’s largely been due to the vehicles being designed to do so, not an inherent necessity for Mars landings. The Mars Science Lab landing planned for 5 Aug 2012 should have a touchdown speed of about 0.75 m/s, gentler than many commercial aircraft landings on Earth.

The major difficulty with landing on Mars to date is that it must be done automatically on unknown terrain. Once there are people on Mars, I’d expect one of the first things to be done would be to find and improve safe landing areas – essentially, get rid of large rocks, gullies and un-level ground. I’d also expect that manned landers would, like 1960s and ‘70s moon landings, be human piloted, though with more computer assistance.

The best way to land on Mars given the availability of prepared landing areas is interesting, and, I think, not widely discussed. Despite its thin atmosphere (on average about 0.6% standard Earth sea level, equivalent to about 30 km / 100,000 ft altitude on Earth), aircraft are possible on Mars. To have the same stall, and thus landing speed, they must have about 1/13th the wing loading, so you’d either have to land at much higher speeds than ordinary on Earth, or have much bigger wings, but I see no reason people might not arrive on Mars much as we arrive at an airport on Earth. The major drawback appears to me to be the added mass and complexity of dropping an aircraft onto Mars, compared to the usual parachute and rocket landing systems.

There’s actually a fully designed and tested unmanned airplane designed to spend about 1 hr flying over, but not land on, Mars: the ARES. The main website is underwhelming – for some pretty animations of the plane, and videos of a 50% scale model of it actually flying at 100,000 ft over Earth, check out lead scientist Joel Levine’s 20 Nov 2009 TED talk (skip to about the 9:00 timemark to skip the general Mars science intro and go straight to talk about the plane).

Quote

So many options, but still, anyone interested in going into space, would probably jump at an opportunity to be the first to land on mars.

I know I would! though the likelihood of an old medical computer programmer who’s aviation experience consists of him mom letting him fly her plane when I was a kid, and being a pretty good hang glider flier in my late teens and early 20s, being given the opportunity, seems to me gloomily slim.

This post has been edited by CraigD: 07 January 2012 - 05:22 PM
Reason for edit: Accuracy - video is of 50% scale model

[sigurdV]

CraigD, on 07 January 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Mars is a totally lifeless, sterile planet.

Mars once resembled Earth, life may have evolved and extremophiles living underground in rocks might still be surviving...
Perhaps we should look before we decide on the matter?

[Qfwfq]

sigurdV, on 12 January 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

Perhaps we should look before we decide on the matter?

Actually, Craig said "as best as [we] have been able to detect" so we have already looked to some extent. Even after looking better, one could always argue we haven't yet checked 100% so it's not as if we haven't looked yet.

[sigurdV]

Ops!

Perhaps I didnt read carefully enough... But I sincerely think Mars is not sterile

I belong to the minority that suspects life evolved before planets were formed.

[Deepwater6]

http://www.space.com...space-food.html


If I'm reading this right these test subjects will be able to leave the capsule if they have a space suit on. It seems this one will concentrate on food variety for the eventual mission.