[Moontanman]

http://www.scientifi...=SA_DD_20120125

[Michaelangelica]

Bonobos are so much nicer primates than humans.

[Moontanman]

Michaelangelica, on 26 January 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

Bonobos are so much nicer primates than humans.

They do seem to have lots of sex and very little conflict.... yeah sounds like the life for me....

[dduckwessel]

There appears to be a real downside to domestication:

1) "The bonobo is less aggressive than the chimp, with a smaller skull and shorter canine teeth."

2) "In the 1950s Belyaev started raising wild silver foxes in captivity and breeding those that were least aggressive toward their human handlers. Within just 20 generations, he had created the fox equivalent of our domestic pooches. Instead of snarling when humans approached, they wagged their tails. At the same time, their ears became floppier, tails curlier and skulls smaller."


It seems to me that aggression may make our brains larger (and smarter: iron sharpens iron)...then again if we want a utopian society, domestication is the way to go

[lawcat]

Michaelangelica, on 26 January 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

Bonobos are so much nicer primates than humans.

f u

[Moontanman]

lawcat, on 05 February 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

f u

I'm not sure about nicer but they are definitely more sexual.... so yeah f u is a good way to put it because they will...

[Michaelangelica]

it seems to me that had we gotten off the evolutionary tree a little earlier along with the bonobos and Gorillas;
.There would be far less stupidly, aggression and craziness Even the planet would be less damaged
I am not convinced our big brains and aggressiveness have done us a lot of favours.

[CraigD]

What I found startling in the SciAm article is Brian Hare’s statement that "... we don't have a single fossil for either species [chimpanzee or bonobo]."

Thus what we know of the divergence of these 2 Pan species, around 1,500,000 to 2,000,000 years ago, and of their split from hominina (Homo and its ancestor species), around 4,000,000 to 6,000,000 years ago, is from genetic and anatomical analysis.

By contrast, we have lots of fossils of extinct species that split from our homo genus over the past about 2,400,000 years, and earlier pithecuses back to about the time of the estimated Pan – Homo split.

I guess that’s what comes from us hominina ranging over large swaths of Africa (and later, the world), while Pans are never got more than a few 100 km from the Congo river and its tributaries.

If we had a good fossil record of Pan, I wonder if there would be as much diversity and change in it, with as many extinct species, as in our hominina subtribe, which has such dissimilar species as Australopithecus, Homo Erectus, and us modern Homo Sapiens Sapiens? Other than that they didn’t range through as many habitats and climate changes as us, I can’t think of any reason there wouldn’t be.

Michaelangelica, on 26 March 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

it seems to me that had we gotten off the evolutionary tree a little earlier along with the bonobos and Gorillas;

Gorillas are occasionally murderous (I prefer “murder”, the killing of a member of ones own species, to “aggressive”, as it can be objectively measured, whereas aggression is difficult to define and measure), though not as much so as chimps. Bonobos are much less than either.

Most same-species killings among primates are killings of infants by non-relative males. Chimps do it. Gorillas do it. Regrettably, humans do it, following much the same pattern and arguable for similar motives as the other primates. To the best of anyone’s knowledge, bonobos don’t, which is consistent with their general non-violent demeanor, but may be inaccurate, as there aren’t many Bonobos, and they’ve not been extensively watched.

Killing of adult by adults is not uncommon among chimps. It’s not uncommon in humans. It’s more uncommon, but known, in gorillas. It’s never been seen in bonobos.

Chimp are known to hunt monkeys. Humans are, too, as well to hunt practically every animal on Earth. Bonobos have been observed hunting monkeys. Gorillas haven’t been observed hunting monkeys, but examinations of their feces suggest they at least scavenge them.

All primates eat a lot of bugs, we humans less so, but likely mostly because of cultural taboos.

[maddog]

Moontanman, on 25 January 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

http://www.scientifi...=SA_DD_20120125

... Never met a Bonobo, I didn't like...

maddog