[Aethelwulf]

I'm going to keep this OP relatively short. I have been studying this phenomenon for over ten years. Armed with my knowledge of science, today I have came to two conclusions which UFO's could be... they are iether of

1) Earthly origin

or

2) Extraterrestrial origin

What if I told you, there is overwhelming evidence which makes option 1) less likely than option 2)? What if I told you that UFO's have been documented for centuries and depicted in art. What if i told you more recently, UFO's have displayed fantastic and intelligently controlled objects over area's resulting in mass sightings and commands by some of the most powerful governments to shoot these objects down, at a time when we had aircraft which are antiquated to the modern day age? If they were antiquated, who was flying these remarkably fast and unusual objects?

UFO's are not a myth, they are real. Just because Youtube is filled with video's that have been CGI'd (computer generated images) is not meant to mean that these things are not real. The documentation goes years back, a patently obvious re-run of denial of these objects over many years, military agents coming forward and leaking this information gradually in what I believe is a slow preparation to the day the government will have no choice to give full disclosure of the origins of the objects. Over the next few weeks, I will be presenting hard evidence for the case of UFO's and how desperate our government can get when trying to conceal their hidden interests into these objects, including secret projects involved in testing UFO-like aircraft and military intervention to try and stop a re-opening of UFO investigations by NASA.

I will enjoy enlightening people on this often... obscured and dilated subject.

This post has been edited by Aethelwulf: 19 July 2012 - 03:24 AM

[SmoothHerring]

If you told me that, I would say throw the evidence on the table.

[Aethelwulf]

SmoothHerring, on 19 July 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

If you told me that, I would say throw the evidence on the table.

I seldom do things by half, so yes, I will present the evidence, a large quantity of it.

When I do post it, you will be able to check most of these facts our yourself.

[Moontanman]

Aethelwulf, on 19 July 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

I'm going to keep this OP relatively short. I have been studying this phenomenon for over ten years. Armed with my knowledge of science, today I have came to two conclusions which UFO's could be... they are iether of

1) Earthly origin

or

2) Extraterrestrial origin

I think I like you more now...

Quote

What if I told you, there is overwhelming evidence which makes option 1) less likely than option 2)? What if I told you that UFO's have been documented for centuries and depicted in art. What if i told you more recently, UFO's have displayed fantastic and intelligently controlled objects over area's resulting in mass sightings and commands by some of the most powerful governments to shoot these objects down, at a time when we had aircraft which are antiquated to the modern day age? If they were antiquated, who was flying these remarkably fast and unusual objects?

Well I'd want to see the evidence for sure, I've been following this phenomena for more than 40 years, I have a lot to say as well.

Quote

UFO's are not a myth, they are real. Just because Youtube is filled with video's that have been CGI'd (computer generated images) is not meant to mean that these things are not real. The documentation goes years back, a patently obvious re-run of denial of these objects over many years, military agents coming forward and leaking this information gradually in what I believe is a slow preparation to the day the government will have no choice to give full disclosure of the origins of the objects. Over the next few weeks, I will be presenting hard evidence for the case of UFO's and how desperate our government can get when trying to conceal their hidden interests into these objects, including secret projects involved in testing UFO-like aircraft and military intervention to try and stop a re-opening of UFO investigations by NASA.

I will enjoy enlightening people on this often... obscured and dilated subject.

While I agree with parts of your assessment... well lets debate this puppy... The apparent world wide contest to see who can fake them better is getting to be a bit old to me and obfuscates the whole issue terribly.

[Aethelwulf]

Ok, I have wrote it out... I am at this moment just reading back through it for typo's and other corrections.

[Aethelwulf]

This will be a small collection of well-documented accounts of UFO encounters or UFO-related events which have been well known for many years. Enjoy.

Between the years of 1896 and 1897, there was a series of mystery airships. The was the precursor, or the catalyst many considered for the UFO phenomenon. In a way, it was the public finally becoming aware of these things.

The Texas Aurora incident is perhaps, one of the best mass sightings which has had plenty investigation. Skeptics started to say it was a hoax, however, massive holes into the hoax theory where eventually uncovered. A series of investigators went to the area and uncovered physical evidence for the incident actually happening. Some of this we will discuss soon. Some also consider there to be evidence which can be damning that is yet to be found. The true smoking gun, some are led to believe.

The Hopeh incident refers to a UFO which has reportedly been caught in a photograph. It was considered to be a real photograph, the object shows all classic signs of the UFO's we often see today in modern culture. Some... rather radical suggestions had been brought forth to what it could be.

The Battle of Los Angeles refers to a mystery object which was seen to be floating above a Military establishment. It was in the year 1942 and triggered a massive attack from ground troops. Anti-aircraft artillery exploaded all around the object but seemed to be ineffective. After a certain period of time, the object vanished over the horizon. Many bore witness to the event which is also a demonstration of a superior technology, since anti-aircraft artillery would have blown any known, modern aircraft of the time down.

Kenneth Arnold, known for his development of some of the most advanced types of aircraft saw something he could not explain. It was his sighting of several disk shaped saucers skimming the air while flying an aircraft was the term ''flying saucers'' born.

The 1952 Washington Incident, hailed as one of the best UFO documented cases explained how UFO's were captured on radar, and interception had been ordered. Each time interception had been ordered, they approached the objects and evaided the aircraft sent. An explanation was given that it was a weather phenomenon, however, Military officials at the time explained that the weather does not evade interception, these aircraft showed intelligence.

Dyatlov Pass incident is perhaps one of the strangest cases of UFO-related events. UFO's had been seen over the mountains the night a bunch of ski hikers had went up into the Ural Mountains. Their bodies were found only a few says later... their bodies had been irradiated beyond belief.

The Westall UFO incident, personally my favorite, was a mass sighting case. A UFO appeared over a school in which all the children at the time bore witness. One of the children passed out. Then Military Officials came into the scene, they took the girl away and in an interview many years later, the children were grown up. One witness stated, ''we never saw the girl again''. Some have conjectured that this was somehow a controlled military experiment, however, the facts of that conjecture do not add up... after all, why would the Military fly such a craft in full view of the public and then try their very best to keep it secret? All the children where sworn to secrecy never to mention this again, even the teachers. And if they did, they would be open to ridicule.

Shag Harbour UFO incident is perhaps another favorite of mine. Also caught on radar, an object was seen by a group of people to descend into the waters near shag harbour. The Canadian Military had been watching the object descend into the waters and it actually made its way to a nearby military facility... unto which just before they arrived at the scene, the UFO ascended and disappeared out of sight.

The Colares Flap Incident involved one of the first incidents where UFO's have attacked. During the outbreak, the UFO's shot beams of light at the citizens which were believed to be some kind of extreme intense and focused radiation. Those who were hit by the beams suffered severe radiation burns. A doctor present on the island treated them for their burn marks. The Brazillian Governement dispatched a team to investigate it, and it was classified until the 1990's.

The 1976 Tehran incident involved two fighter aircraft assembled to intercept a mystery objects which shone with tremendous light. There was also visual confirmation of the object, but each time they got close to the object, all instrumentation and communications were lost and they had to retreat. This happened twice before the object disappeared. This shows a remarkable technology much greater than our own. The object also shot another object at the approaching F-4 Phantom jet, circled it and went back to... which I can only gather as the Mother Ship.

The Hudson Valley Incident was a wave of UFO sightings which was witnessed by many people.

Rendlesham Woodbridge Incident... do I need to say more? One of the most famous cases involving Military personnel.

The Cash Landrum Incident is in fact a very strange case, where three witnesses observed a diamond shaped UFO, and irradiated them terribly. The UFO was being escorted by helicopter it seemed. They were treated for their horrific injuries and was also subject to trying to sew the government.

Another case of a Diamond Shaped UFO which was accompanied by Harrier jets... perhaps the same ufo? Who knows, all we know is that it happened in Pitlockry, date unknown to me. The diamond shaped UFO was huge and the picture was the Ministry of defense which it was then subjected to several experts who came to the conclusion that the Object was real. The gained a lot of attention from the officials, unto Nick Pope, senior defense staff specialist at the time was aware of. His boss believed it could have been a secret prototype belonging to the American Government, but when asked they denied all knowledge. As soon as they did however, the picture mysteriously disappeared from the MoD's possession, and all that is left is a crude photocopy.

A sequence of five mass UFO sightings appeared over Tinley Park.

The 2007 Alderney UFO sightings involved two separate airline flights by two airline Pilots off the cost of Alderney.


So yes... we have quite an array of UFO sightings here - all of them involving more than one witness. Some of the cases showed that these objects are very real, caught on radar and even some of them exhibited dangerous tendencies - other hostile. The hostile cases of UFO's, some not even mentioned a lot in history discussions, but have been known to happen. But perhaps, more importantly, some of these objects if not the greater majority display a technology which seems far more advanced than what we even have today, many years later, which is quite worrying to say the least.

And my favorite case of all, the Westall case was my favorite... it involved the innocence of children who had nothing to gain from a conspiracy hoax. Respectable teachers as well, and all these years later, whilst the teachers never came forward, the children did. I actually started discussing this case on another forum, and as I started winning my case, a mod suspiciously closed my thread.

The greatest wonder is the secrecy that surrounds this topic and the nature of the officials who keep these secrets - we shall get to these soon. I often hear arguments like ''but if it was real, there would be leaks...!''

Gradually over the long years, there has been leaks from very respectable people. Perhaps was more surprising to the skeptical public was that the FBI denied even investigating UFO's... This official statement was made in October 1973 by Director Clarence M. Kelly who, explained in his own words:

''the investigation into unidentified flying objects is not and has never been within the jurisdiction of the FBI.''

Then in 1976 over 1000 documents on UFO investigations appeared into the public eye - after that moment, the believers could never trust an official word ever again... and who could blame them? Perhaps what should be an interesting thing to note, is that if UFO's where not taken seriously by the government, we should ask then why so much tax-payers money was used to investigate it? In fact, not long ago the official statement of the Whitehouse was, ''that there was no evidence supporting the existence of extraterrestrials.''

This statement in itself can be demonstrated wrong... perhaps the Whitehouse has suddenly forgotten the 1952 incident in which the capitol was intercepted by several unusual objects cascading through the skies at very high speeds. Again, officials main objective was to deny everything - a weather phenomenon, even though these things had been caught on radar with visual confirmation and evaded the aircrafts sent to investigate and shoot these objects down. Weather doesn't act like that, and the Military where almost being made to look like fools, which I think was the main reason why officials at the time said this explanation was bunk.

Then there was a case involving NASA, saying that they have never investigated the UFO activity and never intend to do so. In fact, they said;

''NASA is not engaged in any type of research program involving UFO activity.''

However, it was soon discovered in a NASA instruction manual that UFO's where to be reported immediately and the outcome of the investigation;

''would never be discussed with the caller.''

Indeed, many astronauts who have worked for NASA have came forward testifying to the real existence of these objects... some have even came forward and admitted them to being of extraterrestrial origins. In fact, NASA test pilot Joseph Walker who test flew the rocket- powered X-15 said himself that it was one of his duties to look for UFO's. So much for NASA not being interested in UFO's, right? Gorden Cooper has admitted to seeing UFO's - and perhaps one of the best witnesses is Edgar Mitchel, considered a hero in his own right said that he is well aware of the UFO phenomenon and that he was also made aware very early on that these where of extraterrestrial origin. He said there was a lot of back-engineering done to try and recreate this technology and that the government had been in a desperate race to get this technology first - more so that the information into these activities where kept highly secret because of for natural reasons we could all assume, if we had this kind of technology in its fullest, we would be tremendously strong military wise.

In fact when president Carter wanted a reinvestigation into the UFO phenomenon, in a previously secret letter, Colonel Charles Senn hoped to stop the release of vital information on UFO activities. In the letter, he stated that ''he sincerely hopes you are successful in preventing a reopening of UFO investigations'' to NASA headquarters.

Maurice Chatalain, while we are on the subject of the NASA lies, said that this secrecy came about because all Gemini and Apollo flights and where ''closely monitered'' so the mission had been ''sworn to secrecy.'' Maurice is a former NASA communication specialist, who specialized in telecommunications and telemetry and radar systems.

Of course, what about physical evidence? Why is it we only have photographs and video recordings?

It has been noted that the most safest method of transport in by air. So how many of these advanced technological aircraft are going to fall and crash tomorrow? Assuming these are of extraterrestrial origins, they seem to be able to fly in and out of the stratosphere easily. So why should the believer have the kind of evidence being asked for? Even if a UFO came crashing down, we have evidence from secret memorandums that these objects are quickly retained by recovery groups, as you would expect if the governement really was involved in a coverup. Already, one just looks at the Roswell Incident for a quick example [1]

As for physical evidence, it seems there is plenty of it but it won't be released any time soon. Wilbert Smith, in a memorandum said that the secrecy of the UFO phenomenon was rated even higher than the H-Bomb. He actually came into possession of what was believed to be a broken peice of a UFO. He is famously noted for saying:

''We have done a tremendous amount of detective work on this metal... we have something which was not brought here by plane, nor by boat, nor by helicopter... we are speculating that we are in possession of a portion of a much larger device which came into this solar system - we don't know when, but it has been in space for a long time. We can tell this by the micrometeorites embedded in the surface.''

His work however has never been declassified. He worked for the dep. of Transport and I doubt his work will be released for a while.

And finally, let us not forget the transcriptions made by astronauts. Some very odd one's refer to objects as ''alien spacecraft'' rather than bogies. And as we know just by reading the history, many of the astronauts had encountered UFO's. Even footage of these craft have been taken. And no... they are not ice crystals lol... that explanation just runs as tiring as all the other conventional explanations which were used to debunk many credible UFO sightings. Someone here remarked... ''all STS taped can be put down to ice crystals''

Yes... only if you are a lousy investigator? Such as the STS-51a - A metallic orb comes into screen wobbles about and then shoots off... That ain't no ice-crystal!

[1] - I am also aware of the ''debunking'' documents created by the government to explain what happened in Roswell. A lot of the reports in the Mogul report is just a load of rubbish. Many parts of the report don't add up. Though I do believe such a project had been created, I don't believe this is what was seen as it completely ignores all testimony of the witnesses involved.







There are actually more cases I wish to discuss. I have split this from a more compact work, and I will post the rest later after some discussions.

[Aethelwulf]

This will be a small collection of well-documented accounts of UFO encounters or UFO-related events which have been well known for many years. Enjoy.

Between the years of 1896 and 1897, there was a series of mystery airships. The was the precursor, or the catalyst many considered for the UFO phenomenon. In a way, it was the public finally becoming aware of these things.

The Texas Aurora incident is perhaps, one of the best mass sightings which has had plenty investigation. Skeptics started to say it was a hoax, however, massive holes into the hoax theory where eventually uncovered. A series of investigators went to the area and uncovered physical evidence for the incident actually happening. Some of this we will discuss soon. Some also consider there to be evidence which can be damning that is yet to be found. The true smoking gun, some are led to believe.

The Hopeh incident refers to a UFO which has reportedly been caught in a photograph. It was considered to be a real photograph, the object shows all classic signs of the UFO's we often see today in modern culture. Some... rather radical suggestions had been brought forth to what it could be.

The Battle of Los Angeles refers to a mystery object which was seen to be floating above a Military establishment. It was in the year 1942 and triggered a massive attack from ground troops. Anti-aircraft artillery exploaded all around the object but seemed to be ineffective. After a certain period of time, the object vanished over the horizon. Many bore witness to the event which is also a demonstration of a superior technology, since anti-aircraft artillery would have blown any known, modern aircraft of the time down.

Kenneth Arnold, known for his development of some of the most advanced types of aircraft saw something he could not explain. It was his sighting of several disk shaped saucers skimming the air while flying an aircraft was the term ''flying saucers'' born.

The 1952 Washington Incident, hailed as one of the best UFO documented cases explained how UFO's were captured on radar, and interception had been ordered. Each time interception had been ordered, they approached the objects and evaided the aircraft sent. An explanation was given that it was a weather phenomenon, however, Military officials at the time explained that the weather does not evade interception, these aircraft showed intelligence.

Dyatlov Pass incident is perhaps one of the strangest cases of UFO-related events. UFO's had been seen over the mountains the night a bunch of ski hikers had went up into the Ural Mountains. Their bodies were found only a few says later... their bodies had been irradiated beyond belief.

The Westall UFO incident, personally my favorite, was a mass sighting case. A UFO appeared over a school in which all the children at the time bore witness. One of the children passed out. Then Military Officials came into the scene, they took the girl away and in an interview many years later, the children were grown up. One witness stated, ''we never saw the girl again''. Some have conjectured that this was somehow a controlled military experiment, however, the facts of that conjecture do not add up... after all, why would the Military fly such a craft in full view of the public and then try their very best to keep it secret? All the children where sworn to secrecy never to mention this again, even the teachers. And if they did, they would be open to ridicule.

Shag Harbour UFO incident is perhaps another favorite of mine. Also caught on radar, an object was seen by a group of people to descend into the waters near shag harbour. The Canadian Military had been watching the object descend into the waters and it actually made its way to a nearby military facility... unto which just before they arrived at the scene, the UFO ascended and disappeared out of sight.

The Colares Flap Incident involved one of the first incidents where UFO's have attacked. During the outbreak, the UFO's shot beams of light at the citizens which were believed to be some kind of extreme intense and focused radiation. Those who were hit by the beams suffered severe radiation burns. A doctor present on the island treated them for their burn marks. The Brazillian Governement dispatched a team to investigate it, and it was classified until the 1990's.

The 1976 Tehran incident involved two fighter aircraft assembled to intercept a mystery objects which shone with tremendous light. There was also visual confirmation of the object, but each time they got close to the object, all instrumentation and communications were lost and they had to retreat. This happened twice before the object disappeared. This shows a remarkable technology much greater than our own. The object also shot another object at the approaching F-4 Phantom jet, circled it and went back to... which I can only gather as the Mother Ship.

The Hudson Valley Incident was a wave of UFO sightings which was witnessed by many people.

Rendlesham Woodbridge Incident... do I need to say more? One of the most famous cases involving Military personnel.

The Cash Landrum Incident is in fact a very strange case, where three witnesses observed a diamond shaped UFO, and irradiated them terribly. The UFO was being escorted by helicopter it seemed. They were treated for their horrific injuries and was also subject to trying to sew the government.

Another case of a Diamond Shaped UFO which was accompanied by Harrier jets... perhaps the same ufo? Who knows, all we know is that it happened in Pitlockry, date unknown to me. The diamond shaped UFO was huge and the picture was the Ministry of defense which it was then subjected to several experts who came to the conclusion that the Object was real. The gained a lot of attention from the officials, unto Nick Pope, senior defense staff specialist at the time was aware of. His boss believed it could have been a secret prototype belonging to the American Government, but when asked they denied all knowledge. As soon as they did however, the picture mysteriously disappeared from the MoD's possession, and all that is left is a crude photocopy.

A sequence of five mass UFO sightings appeared over Tinley Park.

The 2007 Alderney UFO sightings involved two separate airline flights by two airline Pilots off the cost of Alderney.


So yes... we have quite an array of UFO sightings here - all of them involving more than one witness. Some of the cases showed that these objects are very real, caught on radar and even some of them exhibited dangerous tendencies - other hostile. The hostile cases of UFO's, some not even mentioned a lot in history discussions, but have been known to happen. But perhaps, more importantly, some of these objects if not the greater majority display a technology which seems far more advanced than what we even have today, many years later, which is quite worrying to say the least.

And my favorite case of all, the Westall case was my favorite... it involved the innocence of children who had nothing to gain from a conspiracy hoax. Respectable teachers as well, and all these years later, whilst the teachers never came forward, the children did. I actually started discussing this case on another forum, and as I started winning my case, a mod suspiciously closed my thread.

The greatest wonder is the secrecy that surrounds this topic and the nature of the officials who keep these secrets - we shall get to these soon. I often hear arguments like ''but if it was real, there would be leaks...!''

Gradually over the long years, there has been leaks from very respectable people. Perhaps was more surprising to the skeptical public was that the FBI denied even investigating UFO's... This official statement was made in October 1973 by Director Clarence M. Kelly who, explained in his own words:

''the investigation into unidentified flying objects is not and has never been within the jurisdiction of the FBI.''

Then in 1976 over 1000 documents on UFO investigations appeared into the public eye - after that moment, the believers could never trust an official word ever again... and who could blame them? Perhaps what should be an interesting thing to note, is that if UFO's where not taken seriously by the government, we should ask then why so much tax-payers money was used to investigate it? In fact, not long ago the official statement of the Whitehouse was, ''that there was no evidence supporting the existence of extraterrestrials.''

This statement in itself can be demonstrated wrong... perhaps the Whitehouse has suddenly forgotten the 1952 incident in which the capitol was intercepted by several unusual objects cascading through the skies at very high speeds. Again, officials main objective was to deny everything - a weather phenomenon, even though these things had been caught on radar with visual confirmation and evaded the aircrafts sent to investigate and shoot these objects down. Weather doesn't act like that, and the Military where almost being made to look like fools, which I think was the main reason why officials at the time said this explanation was bunk.

Then there was a case involving NASA, saying that they have never investigated the UFO activity and never intend to do so. In fact, they said;

''NASA is not engaged in any type of research program involving UFO activity.''

However, it was soon discovered in a NASA instruction manual that UFO's where to be reported immediately and the outcome of the investigation;

''would never be discussed with the caller.''

Indeed, many astronauts who have worked for NASA have came forward testifying to the real existence of these objects... some have even came forward and admitted them to being of extraterrestrial origins. In fact, NASA test pilot Joseph Walker who test flew the rocket- powered X-15 said himself that it was one of his duties to look for UFO's. So much for NASA not being interested in UFO's, right? Gorden Cooper has admitted to seeing UFO's - and perhaps one of the best witnesses is Edgar Mitchel, considered a hero in his own right said that he is well aware of the UFO phenomenon and that he was also made aware very early on that these where of extraterrestrial origin. He said there was a lot of back-engineering done to try and recreate this technology and that the government had been in a desperate race to get this technology first - more so that the information into these activities where kept highly secret because of for natural reasons we could all assume, if we had this kind of technology in its fullest, we would be tremendously strong military wise.

In fact when president Carter wanted a reinvestigation into the UFO phenomenon, in a previously secret letter, Colonel Charles Senn hoped to stop the release of vital information on UFO activities. In the letter, he stated that ''he sincerely hopes you are successful in preventing a reopening of UFO investigations'' to NASA headquarters.

Maurice Chatalain, while we are on the subject of the NASA lies, said that this secrecy came about because all Gemini and Apollo flights and where ''closely monitered'' so the mission had been ''sworn to secrecy.'' Maurice is a former NASA communication specialist, who specialized in telecommunications and telemetry and radar systems.

Of course, what about physical evidence? Why is it we only have photographs and video recordings?

It has been noted that the most safest method of transport in by air. So how many of these advanced technological aircraft are going to fall and crash tomorrow? Assuming these are of extraterrestrial origins, they seem to be able to fly in and out of the stratosphere easily. So why should the believer have the kind of evidence being asked for? Even if a UFO came crashing down, we have evidence from secret memorandums that these objects are quickly retained by recovery groups, as you would expect if the governement really was involved in a coverup. Already, one just looks at the Roswell Incident for a quick example [1]

As for physical evidence, it seems there is plenty of it but it won't be released any time soon. Wilbert Smith, in a memorandum said that the secrecy of the UFO phenomenon was rated even higher than the H-Bomb. He actually came into possession of what was believed to be a broken peice of a UFO. He is famously noted for saying:

''We have done a tremendous amount of detective work on this metal... we have something which was not brought here by plane, nor by boat, nor by helicopter... we are speculating that we are in possession of a portion of a much larger device which came into this solar system - we don't know when, but it has been in space for a long time. We can tell this by the micrometeorites embedded in the surface.''

His work however has never been declassified. He worked for the dep. of Transport and I doubt his work will be released for a while.

And finally, let us not forget the transcriptions made by astronauts. Some very odd one's refer to objects as ''alien spacecraft'' rather than bogies. And as we know just by reading the history, many of the astronauts had encountered UFO's. Even footage of these craft have been taken. And no... they are not ice crystals lol... that explanation just runs as tiring as all the other conventional explanations which were used to debunk many credible UFO sightings. Someone here remarked... ''all STS taped can be put down to ice crystals''

Yes... only if you are a lousy investigator? Such as the STS-51a - A metallic orb comes into screen wobbles about and then shoots off... That ain't no ice-crystal!

[1] - I am also aware of the ''debunking'' documents created by the government to explain what happened in Roswell. A lot of the reports in the Mogul report is just a load of rubbish. Many parts of the report don't add up. Though I do believe such a project had been created, I don't believe this is what was seen as it completely ignores all testimony of the witnesses involved.







There are actually more cases I wish to discuss. I have split this from a more compact work, and I will post the rest later after some discussions.

[Moontanman]

Could we get some links to the sightings you describe please? As long as we are respectful to each other here we will not be suspended or banned, UFOs might not be a popular subject but discussing them is not against the rules.

The Mystery Air ship this is almost certainly false, the video at the link i am going to post explains why. You do mention several of my persona favs and a few I have not heard of... This video is the best one I've seen, it steers clear of hype and is reasonably even handed in it's reporting...

[Aethelwulf]

Yes... you point to something you need a reference to and I will get it. When I have some time later I will watch the video, thanks.

[CraigD]

Aethelwulf, on 20 July 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

Yes... you point to something you need a reference to and I will get it.

Every claim (other, of course, than claims of the form "I believe, but can't support ...") you make should be backed up by links or references (links preferable to references, as they're easier to follow). The more credible the linked-to source, the better, but any supporting material is better than none.

This is a site rule, the first and arguably the most important one.

Adherence to this rule not only makes it easier for careful readers to read your posts, it improves their quality, as you almost certainly will, in the course of searching for support for your claims, discover and correct inaccuracies, and outright errors.

Given the amount of effort this can require for such long posts as yours in this thread, you may want to parse you posts into smaller single or more closely related collections of claims. This also usually improves their readability.

Also per the site rules, I've moved this thread from Biology to Strange Claims, because pretty much by definition claims about UFOs are "strange", and those in this thread aren't yet appropriately backed up. Note that being in the strange claims forum isn't license not to back up claims in further posts.

If your claims here can be better supported, we'll move the thread back to a non-strange forum. As so far the bulk of them have involved alleged spacecraft sightings, not the study of biological material or systems, Space would be a better forum for them than Biology.

[Moontanman]

Aethelwulf, on 19 July 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

This will be a small collection of well-documented accounts of UFO encounters or UFO-related events which have been well known for many years. Enjoy.

Between the years of 1896 and 1897, there was a series of mystery airships. The was the precursor, or the catalyst many considered for the UFO phenomenon. In a way, it was the public finally becoming aware of these things.

The Texas Aurora incident is perhaps, one of the best mass sightings which has had plenty investigation. Skeptics started to say it was a hoax, however, massive holes into the hoax theory where eventually uncovered. A series of investigators went to the area and uncovered physical evidence for the incident actually happening. Some of this we will discuss soon. Some also consider there to be evidence which can be damning that is yet to be found. The true smoking gun, some are led to believe.

The Hopeh incident refers to a UFO which has reportedly been caught in a photograph. It was considered to be a real photograph, the object shows all classic signs of the UFO's we often see today in modern culture. Some... rather radical suggestions had been brought forth to what it could be.

The Battle of Los Angeles refers to a mystery object which was seen to be floating above a Military establishment. It was in the year 1942 and triggered a massive attack from ground troops. Anti-aircraft artillery exploaded all around the object but seemed to be ineffective. After a certain period of time, the object vanished over the horizon. Many bore witness to the event which is also a demonstration of a superior technology, since anti-aircraft artillery would have blown any known, modern aircraft of the time down.

We do need citations for these sightings

Quote

Kenneth Arnold, known for his development of some of the most advanced types of aircraft saw something he could not explain. It was his sighting of several disk shaped saucers skimming the air while flying an aircraft was the term ''flying saucers'' born.

Kenneth Arnold sold fire fighting equipment he was not known for developing any aircraft, please provide a citation for this assertion.

Quote

The 1952 Washington Incident, hailed as one of the best UFO documented cases explained how UFO's were captured on radar, and interception had been ordered. Each time interception had been ordered, they approached the objects and evaided the aircraft sent. An explanation was given that it was a weather phenomenon, however, Military officials at the time explained that the weather does not evade interception, these aircraft showed intelligence.

A citation for this even though it is well known.

Quote

Dyatlov Pass incident is perhaps one of the strangest cases of UFO-related events. UFO's had been seen over the mountains the night a bunch of ski hikers had went up into the Ural Mountains. Their bodies were found only a few says later... their bodies had been irradiated beyond belief.

Definitely a citation for this one...

Quote

The Westall UFO incident, personally my favorite, was a mass sighting case. A UFO appeared over a school in which all the children at the time bore witness. One of the children passed out. Then Military Officials came into the scene, they took the girl away and in an interview many years later, the children were grown up. One witness stated, ''we never saw the girl again''. Some have conjectured that this was somehow a controlled military experiment, however, the facts of that conjecture do not add up... after all, why would the Military fly such a craft in full view of the public and then try their very best to keep it secret? All the children where sworn to secrecy never to mention this again, even the teachers. And if they did, they would be open to ridicule.

Shag Harbour UFO incident is perhaps another favorite of mine. Also caught on radar, an object was seen by a group of people to descend into the waters near shag harbour. The Canadian Military had been watching the object descend into the waters and it actually made its way to a nearby military facility... unto which just before they arrived at the scene, the UFO ascended and disappeared out of sight.

The Colares Flap Incident involved one of the first incidents where UFO's have attacked. During the outbreak, the UFO's shot beams of light at the citizens which were believed to be some kind of extreme intense and focused radiation. Those who were hit by the beams suffered severe radiation burns. A doctor present on the island treated them for their burn marks. The Brazillian Governement dispatched a team to investigate it, and it was classified until the 1990's.

All of the above need citations, if we are going to discuss this we need to allow others to real the actual evidence and not just an assertion

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The 1976 Tehran incident involved two fighter aircraft assembled to intercept a mystery objects which shone with tremendous light. There was also visual confirmation of the object, but each time they got close to the object, all instrumentation and communications were lost and they had to retreat. This happened twice before the object disappeared. This shows a remarkable technology much greater than our own. The object also shot another object at the approaching F-4 Phantom jet, circled it and went back to... which I can only gather as the Mother Ship.

Citation please (one of the best sightings IMHO)

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The Hudson Valley Incident was a wave of UFO sightings which was witnessed by many people.

Rendlesham Woodbridge Incident... do I need to say more? One of the most famous cases involving Military personnel.

The Cash Landrum Incident is in fact a very strange case, where three witnesses observed a diamond shaped UFO, and irradiated them terribly. The UFO was being escorted by helicopter it seemed. They were treated for their horrific injuries and was also subject to trying to sew the government.

Another case of a Diamond Shaped UFO which was accompanied by Harrier jets... perhaps the same ufo? Who knows, all we know is that it happened in Pitlockry, date unknown to me. The diamond shaped UFO was huge and the picture was the Ministry of defense which it was then subjected to several experts who came to the conclusion that the Object was real. The gained a lot of attention from the officials, unto Nick Pope, senior defense staff specialist at the time was aware of. His boss believed it could have been a secret prototype belonging to the American Government, but when asked they denied all knowledge. As soon as they did however, the picture mysteriously disappeared from the MoD's possession, and all that is left is a crude photocopy.

A sequence of five mass UFO sightings appeared over Tinley Park.



The 2007 Alderney UFO sightings involved two separate airline flights by two airline Pilots off the cost of Alderney.

All of the above need citations, if we are going to discuss this we need to allow others to real the actual evidence and not just an assertion

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So yes... we have quite an array of UFO sightings here - all of them involving more than one witness. Some of the cases showed that these objects are very real, caught on radar and even some of them exhibited dangerous tendencies - other hostile. The hostile cases of UFO's, some not even mentioned a lot in history discussions, but have been known to happen. But perhaps, more importantly, some of these objects if not the greater majority display a technology which seems far more advanced than what we even have today, many years later, which is quite worrying to say the least.

yes, i agree, some sightings are disturbing to say the least but to discuss this we need more than just alist of the ones you think are best. this is Hypography, such thinks need links to them so they can be evaluated by others.

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And my favorite case of all, the Westall case was my favorite... it involved the innocence of children who had nothing to gain from a conspiracy hoax. Respectable teachers as well, and all these years later, whilst the teachers never came forward, the children did. I actually started discussing this case on another forum, and as I started winning my case, a mod suspiciously closed my thread.

Simply describing a sighting will not get you banned here, not providing links to so others can see and evaluate the sighting will be questioned at least.

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The greatest wonder is the secrecy that surrounds this topic and the nature of the officials who keep these secrets - we shall get to these soon. I often hear arguments like ''but if it was real, there would be leaks...!''

Gradually over the long years, there has been leaks from very respectable people. Perhaps was more surprising to the skeptical public was that the FBI denied even investigating UFO's... This official statement was made in October 1973 by Director Clarence M. Kelly who, explained in his own words:

''the investigation into unidentified flying objects is not and has never been within the jurisdiction of the FBI.''

Denial does seem to be the life blood of these people

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Then in 1976 over 1000 documents on UFO investigations appeared into the public eye - after that moment, the believers could never trust an official word ever again... and who could blame them? Perhaps what should be an interesting thing to note, is that if UFO's where not taken seriously by the government, we should ask then why so much tax-payers money was used to investigate it? In fact, not long ago the official statement of the Whitehouse was, ''that there was no evidence supporting the existence of extraterrestrials.''

We will need links to this information so it can be evaluated by others here on Hypo

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This statement in itself can be demonstrated wrong... perhaps the Whitehouse has suddenly forgotten the 1952 incident in which the capitol was intercepted by several unusual objects cascading through the skies at very high speeds. Again, officials main objective was to deny everything - a weather phenomenon, even though these things had been caught on radar with visual confirmation and evaded the aircrafts sent to investigate and shoot these objects down. Weather doesn't act like that, and the Military where almost being made to look like fools, which I think was the main reason why officials at the time said this explanation was bunk.

This is another of my fav sightings but we need some links to this information so we can discuss it intelligently

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Then there was a case involving NASA, saying that they have never investigated the UFO activity and never intend to do so. In fact, they said;

''NASA is not engaged in any type of research program involving UFO activity.''

However, it was soon discovered in a NASA instruction manual that UFO's where to be reported immediately and the outcome of the investigation;

''would never be discussed with the caller.''

Indeed, many astronauts who have worked for NASA have came forward testifying to the real existence of these objects... some have even came forward and admitted them to being of extraterrestrial origins. In fact, NASA test pilot Joseph Walker who test flew the rocket- powered X-15 said himself that it was one of his duties to look for UFO's. So much for NASA not being interested in UFO's, right? Gorden Cooper has admitted to seeing UFO's - and perhaps one of the best witnesses is Edgar Mitchel, considered a hero in his own right said that he is well aware of the UFO phenomenon and that he was also made aware very early on that these where of extraterrestrial origin. He said there was a lot of back-engineering done to try and recreate this technology and that the government had been in a desperate race to get this technology first - more so that the information into these activities where kept highly secret because of for natural reasons we could all assume, if we had this kind of technology in its fullest, we would be tremendously strong military wise.

This continued culture of lie first and explain later is a big part of the problem but some links to this information would go a long ways toward bringing others into this thread.

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In fact when president Carter wanted a reinvestigation into the UFO phenomenon, in a previously secret letter, Colonel Charles Senn hoped to stop the release of vital information on UFO activities. In the letter, he stated that ''he sincerely hopes you are successful in preventing a reopening of UFO investigations'' to NASA headquarters.

A link to this information would be helpful

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Maurice Chatalain, while we are on the subject of the NASA lies, said that this secrecy came about because all Gemini and Apollo flights and where ''closely monitered'' so the mission had been ''sworn to secrecy.'' Maurice is a former NASA communication specialist, who specialized in telecommunications and telemetry and radar systems.

Again a citation would enormously increase the value of this information

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Of course, what about physical evidence? Why is it we only have photographs and video recordings?

It has been noted that the most safest method of transport in by air. So how many of these advanced technological aircraft are going to fall and crash tomorrow? Assuming these are of extraterrestrial origins, they seem to be able to fly in and out of the stratosphere easily. So why should the believer have the kind of evidence being asked for? Even if a UFO came crashing down, we have evidence from secret memorandums that these objects are quickly retained by recovery groups, as you would expect if the governement really was involved in a coverup. Already, one just looks at the Roswell Incident for a quick example [1]

The veracity of these reports are questionable, a link to more information would foster a better discussion.

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As for physical evidence, it seems there is plenty of it but it won't be released any time soon. Wilbert Smith, in a memorandum said that the secrecy of the UFO phenomenon was rated even higher than the H-Bomb. He actually came into possession of what was believed to be a broken peice of a UFO. He is famously noted for saying:

''We have done a tremendous amount of detective work on this metal... we have something which was not brought here by plane, nor by boat, nor by helicopter... we are speculating that we are in possession of a portion of a much larger device which came into this solar system - we don't know when, but it has been in space for a long time. We can tell this by the micrometeorites embedded in the surface.''

His work however has never been declassified. He worked for the dep. of Transport and I doubt his work will be released for a while.

A link to this information would be great

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And finally, let us not forget the transcriptions made by astronauts. Some very odd one's refer to objects as ''alien spacecraft'' rather than bogies. And as we know just by reading the history, many of the astronauts had encountered UFO's. Even footage of these craft have been taken. And no... they are not ice crystals lol... that explanation just runs as tiring as all the other conventional explanations which were used to debunk many credible UFO sightings. Someone here remarked... ''all STS taped can be put down to ice crystals''

Yes... only if you are a lousy investigator? Such as the STS-51a - A metallic orb comes into screen wobbles about and then shoots off... That ain't no ice-crystal!

yes, debunkers can be silly A citation please

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[1] - I am also aware of the ''debunking'' documents created by the government to explain what happened in Roswell. A lot of the reports in the Mogul report is just a load of rubbish. Many parts of the report don't add up. Though I do believe such a project had been created, I don't believe this is what was seen as it completely ignores all testimony of the witnesses involved.

There are actually more cases I wish to discuss. I have split this from a more compact work, and I will post the rest later after some discussions.

I look forward to this but keep in mind that we are not the only people reading this and hopefully we will get a multiple conversation going. But for that to happen you need to provide a link to the information so others can discuss this in an informed manner.

This post has been edited by Moontanman: 20 July 2012 - 11:05 AM

[Aethelwulf]

CraigD, on 20 July 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

If your claims here can be better supported, we'll move the thread back to a non-strange forum. As so far the bulk of them have involved alleged spacecraft sightings, not the study of biological material or systems, Space would be a better forum for them than Biology.

No sweat. I can support every claim I have made.

[Aethelwulf]

Moontanman, on 20 July 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

We do need citations for these sightings



Kenneth Arnold sold fire fighting equipment he was not known for developing any aircraft, please provide a citation for this assertion.



A citation for this even though it is well known.



Definitely a citation for this one...



All of the above need citations, if we are going to discuss this we need to allow others to real the actual evidence and not just an assertion



Citation please (one of the best sightings IMHO)



All of the above need citations, if we are going to discuss this we need to allow others to real the actual evidence and not just an assertion



yes, i agree, some sightings are disturbing to say the least but to discuss this we need more than just alist of the ones you think are best. this is Hypography, such thinks need links to them so they can be evaluated by others.



Simply describing a sighting will not get you banned here, not providing links to so others can see and evaluate the sighting will be questioned at least.



Denial does seem to be the life blood of these people



We will need links to this information so it can be evaluated by others here on Hypo



This is another of my fav sightings but we need some links to this information so we can discuss it intelligently



This continued culture of lie first and explain later is a big part of the problem but some links to this information would go a long ways toward bringing others into this thread.



A link to this information would be helpful



Again a citation would enormously increase the value of this information



The veracity of these reports are questionable, a link to more information would foster a better discussion.



A link to this information would be great



yes, debunkers can be silly A citation please



I look forward to this but keep in mind that we are not the only people reading this and hopefully we will get a multiple conversation going. But for that to happen you need to provide a link to the information so others can discuss this in an informed manner.

Ok ... will take me some time to find all the links, but I will. I may reference books as well.

(About the Kenneth Arnold claim, you are right. I don't know why I had it in my head he developed aircraft)

[Moontanman]

This is one of the best documented UFO cases I know of, despite a large amount of data this sighting is inexplicable...

Tehran UFO incident...

http://en.wikipedia....an_UFO_incident

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The 1976 Tehran UFO Incident was a radar and visual sighting of an unidentified flying object (UFO) over Tehran, the capital of Iran, during the early morning hours of 19 September 1976. During the incident, two F-4 Phantom II jet interceptors supposedly lost instrumentation and communications as they approached, only to have them restored upon withdrawal; one of the aircraft also supposedly suffered temporary weapons systems failure, while preparing to open fire.
The incident, recorded in a four-page U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) report distributed to at least the White House, Secretary of State, Joint Chiefs of Staff, National Security Agency (NSA) and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), remains one of the most well-documented military encounters with anomalous phenomena in history, and various senior Iranian military officers directly involved with the events have gone on public record stating their belief that the object was not of terrestrial origin.

[Aethelwulf]

Moontanman, on 20 July 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

This is one of the best documented UFO cases I know of, despite a large amount of data this sighting is inexplicable...

Tehran UFO incident...

http://en.wikipedia....an_UFO_incident

Yes I actually mention this case before. I really do like this case simply because of the blatant advanced technology the object(s) display.