Lancewen Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 About six years ago I met someone who was into urban mining. He was mostly looking for metals he could turn in for money, but he collected anything of interest and old speakers were a common item he collected. He would then recover the ring magnets from them. He had 7 or 8 rings about 2.5' X 1.5'(hole) X .7 and placed them on a poll about 1" diameter so that they repelled eachother. They spaced out at about 6 to 7 inches apart and the also centered around the poll without touching it. If I compressed the stack and let it go, they would uncompress like a spring. I wanted to try and reproduce that set up, but didn't have access to old speakers so I ordered the following magnets: RX054-N521" od x 5/16" id x 1/4" thickGrade N52 - Nickel PlatedAxially Magnetized These magnets were smaller than I wanted, but ones the size I had seen cost over a hundred dollars per magnet. Anyway I created a stand with a small poll mounted in it. then placed the magnets on it. The result is displayed in the picture. As you can see the magnets are not floating freely on the poll, they are touching the poll and they are at an angle. I think the problem has a lot to do with the size of the hole in the magnets and the diameter of the poll. But would like to know if anyone else thinks this is the problem? Also these are Neodymium Magnets. I'm not sure how strong they are as I couldn't find a way to understand what grade N52 converted to in magnetic strength. I can say they are the strongest magnets I've ever handled and they are very brittle. I broke 3 of them, because they snapped together with such force. One of the rings just broke into two peaces and I thought I could just super glue them together. But once they become two peaces they repel eachother with such force, I could not push them back together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aemilius Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) Hey arKane (nice to meet you).... arKane "He had 7 or 8 rings about 2.5' X 1.5'(hole) X .7 and placed them on a poll about 1" diameter so that they repelled eachother. They spaced out at about 6 to 7 inches apart and the also centered around the poll without touching it." I experimented with magnets and magnetic fields of various sizes, shapes and field strengths for years, including arrangements similar to the one depicted. The ring magnets must have been touching the pole in your aquaintance's arrangement to provide stability just as they are in the image you posted because of the inherently unstable nature of the force between them (no matter the size) when stacking them that way. The proof of that? If the magnets were not touching the pole in your aquaintance's arrangement there would have been no need to have a pole there in the first place. Emile Edited August 2, 2012 by Aemilius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancewen Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Hey arKane (nice to meet you).... arKane "He had 7 or 8 rings about 2.5' X 1.5'(hole) X .7 and placed them on a poll about 1" diameter so that they repelled eachother. They spaced out at about 6 to 7 inches apart and the also centered around the poll without touching it." I experimented with magnets and magnetic fields of various sizes, shapes and strengths for years, including arrangements similar to the one depicted. The ring magnets must have been touching the pole in your acquaintance's arrangement to provide stability just as they are in the image you posted because of the inherently unstable nature of the force between them (no matter the size) when stacking them that way. The proof of that? If the magnets were not touching the pole in your acquaintance's arrangement there would have been no need to have a pole there in the first place. Emile I believe the pole served to initially align the rings. However I can't explain why those rings didn't touch the pole when left to themselves. I was able to push a ring over to the pole, but when released it centered itself again. I've been fascinated with those ring magnets on a pole ever since. However my feeble attempts to recreate that same condition have been unsuccessful. I did notice that the rings I bought were Axially Magnetized as opposed to Diametrically Magnetized. I don't know how the speaker magnets were magnetized or even if that would make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbalka Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Two questions what is your pole made of and what was his pole made of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancewen Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Two questions what is your pole made of and what was his pole made of? Wood in both cases. His ring magnets were much larger. His poll was about 1" in diameter and the holes in his magnets about 1 1/2" in diameter. My magnets were much smaller and I got the smallest diameter round stick I could find and it was just barely a fit for the magnet holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labelwench Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hmmm..... The spaces between the magnets are interesting in their progression. Starting from the bottom we have approximately 1 1/4", 1 3/4", 2 1/4" and 3". Is there some cumulative effect in this configuration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancewen Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hmmm..... The spaces between the magnets are interesting in their progression. Starting from the bottom we have approximately 1 1/4", 1 3/4", 2 1/4" and 3". Is there some cumulative effect in this configuration? I'm sure the weight of the magnets is the reason for the spacing between the magnets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbalka Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 " Axially Magnetized as opposed to Diametrically Magnetized". Diametrically Magnetized I assume that it would be rather difficult to arrange this particular type of magnet (diametrically). As it was magnetically hovering it would slip around to align its poles. It would have to have originally been Axially Magnetized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancewen Posted October 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 " Axially Magnetized as opposed to Diametrically Magnetized". Diametrically Magnetized I assume that it would be rather difficult to arrange this particular type of magnet (diametrically). As it was magnetically hovering it would slip around to align its poles. It would have to have originally been Axially Magnetized. Yes. Also these particular magnets are very brittle. I've already broken 3 of them. If you let them get to close they snap together with enough force to break. Once they break you can't put them together again, because the two halves now repel each other with enough force, that there is no way you can force them together with your hands. Much stronger than I thought they were going to be when I bought them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbalka Posted October 17, 2012 Report Share Posted October 17, 2012 I hear ya! I bought some along time ago as well when i was trying to create perpetual motion. My conclusion after multiple crazy contraptions was the rounded fields of magnets will never allow perpetual motion. Meaning magnets will travel to the weakest point of a field and stay there. In order to overcome this obstacle many moving parts would need to be created which in hand creates much friction reducing any torque that would be created. If ya wanna do it for fun with no actual use in life it could be possible. But not for anything productive lol. It was a lot of fun though as well as time consuming! But hey it was worth it! Just because it was fun. There is a possibility that the speaker magnets he had were radial magnetization. That would do what you described perfectly. They are not common though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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