Gravity is a particle that pushes!

[CraigD]

…the basics is this.

 

Matter takes up "space" in space. Any object taking up space creates an empty space in the empty space, a vacume in the vacume. … And [any object taking up space] would want to go wherever there is less pressure.

I like Arkain’s idea of space containing “attractive” stuff that’s displaced by matter. It seems possible to build a decent formalism around it – in particular, to describe some way for the attractive stuff to pile up around masses in a way that roughly obeys the F ~ 1/r^2 formula Newtonian Gravity, or the exact geometry of General Relativity. With enough skill, this formalism might even agree with GR where its predictions are well-supported by experimental evidence, then go further to predict, for example, the Voyager anomaly.

 

Busy senior IT professional that I am, there’s next to no possibility of me finding the time to acquire the formal skills necessary to pursue this to the point of making falsifiable predictions. Certain 22-year-olds might not share my limitation.

 

Now this is how Science is done! :)

[arkain101]

My first notion is to suspect this as sarcasm of someone having a good opinion of one of my ideas.. haha. Since so many people assumed my ideas were how I understood physics, where that is far from it.

 

My quest in science and part of life is to find answers to why there is what there is here along with the how. Like I said, if we figure out everything there is to know about atoms and the universe and get it figured out, which I think we will sooner than you think. We are going to still be left with even more difficult questions if we close our imagination to that extent.

 

Lets say we find some sort of fundemental object to all matter and it solves many of our questions knowing this peice of information. We still cant answer as to why it is here, where it came from, why it exists in a absolute infinity zone, why I (WE) are here to see this!

 

Science is an incredible way to see how the universe functions and how we can use that information to prosper. Although there is just as much to learn about ourselves as I think there is to learn about the world around us.

 

If you dont get what I mean, try a small experiment and do it with confidence not skepticism. Go into your bathroom or somewhere more relaxing that has a mirror and dim the lights so your eyes are just visible. Use a flash light if you have to. Stare into your own eyes and look at yourself connect your thoughts with the person looking back at you. Breath in and out and say it in your mind as you do.. Breath in... breath out..untill you feel very calm and content.

Now in your mind I know I am here...... but wonder, why am I here.... why am I here..... why am I here.... I see that I (an existance of thought and personality) am HERE..continue this connection and thinking for awhile. See your own eyes and know that person in the reflection is your conciousness in form.

Eventually you should feel a bit of a new feeling come over you that gives you a sense of purpose and understanding to a expansion of your own consiouness. What I mean by this is you will feel as though there is more to you than meets the eye.

 

Imagination is the key to having the existance of reality. Through this it tells me that the universe and all things contained in this vaaaaaassst unfathomable reality is here because of the power of our ability to contain imagination and thought. Without this even science will tell you we are purely unaware automatons functioning purely off of impluses to our nervous system unable to fathom the knowledge of a purpose. With this in mind the reality we live in would be plausible to be a function of great imagination to have everything Be here like it is and SO much more complicated than we could ever imagine.

I am not speaking of creationism...I am merely taking a baby step as to explain a bit of why anything is what it is. I dont swear by that mirror experiment as to show you the light or anything supersticious like that but more of expansion of your conciousness, this does not mean you mutated or anything of that sort it just means your mind is open to new levels of thinking process.

[CraigD]

My first notion is to suspect this as sarcasm of someone having a good opinion of one of my ideas..

Absolutely no sarcasm is intended in any of my posts on this forum.

 

As a general rule, I think sarcasm in written communication is confusing and/or insulting. When I disagree with a post here, I try to address it in a direct, evidence-supported way. When I agree with one, I try to do the same.

[Tormod]

I dont know why hasn't general relativity been move to strange claims? :)

 

You know, it would have been - in 1905.

[Tormod]

"infinite nothingness"...it's not hard to grasp, it's just an oxymoron.

 

so you are saying you can imagine infinity and comprehend it?

 

I'm saying "infinite nothingness" is easy to grasp because it is something that does not exist. That you do not understand what vacuum is doesn't mean your assumptions about it are correct!

 

I don't know why you think criticism of your points is sarcasm.

[arkain101]

I was a bit suspicious thats all, I have gotten alot of weird responses before.

 

I understand a vacume enough to comprehend it so dont worry about that. I realize it is something that we can say with our science in confidence as something that does not exist.

 

Although, currently special relativity a 4th dimension (time) is a broadly accepted concept. Time is something that cant really be touched, detected, or seen. We can manipulate our Unit of our base and make measurements of this blind dimension. (if that makes sense). It is also considered this vacume (that does not exist) is included with time as blob in your reference frame, space-time. It is one and can be manipulated from apparent velocity changes (in this thing that does not exist). What is affected by this vacume is matter. It sticks together in it, it changes time as your speed your way through it, and it puts a restriction onto how fast you can travel in it, according to SR. The thing is you are not really in it, you are (as matter) displacing space-time, in effect it is like creating surface tension around you (the image I have). (remember this is all related to "Trying on" the idea, so save your time on the massive corrections of relation to other theory. This is how I test drive experimental mechanical operations.)

 

This is a similar concept (just barely similar), that is a recently new discovery here on earth.

In natural world surface tension of water can be used by insects for travel. They can create their own bend in the waters surface tension near the shore (making a higher level concentration under their belly) which will cause them to ride a wave towards the shore at a number of body lengths per-second, launching them out to the place of less surface tension pressure. (free mobility where they can grab the land and pull themselves out of the gluey water). In fact it is otherwise impossible to move out of the pond unless you know this special technique as a bug (the right sized bug) to sit on a high pressure blob and hang onto it as it waves its way towards land(low pressure).

In advance I just want to say dont assume I am making any relations between space-time and water tension. They have slight similarities in this idea but it goes no further.

[arkain101]

This is a little crazy stuff but I still want to post it.

This is from a forum which is related to the 11:11, clock, dna phenominom affected by millions around the world. 1111 celestical midwayers that do alot of strange things to people on this planet.

 

Quote:

November 11, 2005 - 11:11:11

(11) 2 + (11) 2 + (2005) 7 = 11

End quote:

 

 

I couldnt help but notice this is Katabatak math. A new type of math that I think is a kind of a caculus type of math. There is an excellent journey into katabatak math posted here:

 

http://hypography.com/forums/physics-mathematics/1343-katabatak-math-an-exploration-pure-number.html

 

It is quite simple to get a handle on. Not that you will understand it completely. (it is a kind of math that makes any number workable.)

 

11 11 11 2005 = 1+1+1+1+1+1+2+0+0+5=13, 1+3= 4, (4 is final and whole).

 

11:11= 1+1+1+1= 4

 

Pyramids are a shape of infinity of 4. They start from singularity (the never ending decreasing peak, half-way smaller, half-way smaller) and continue on(to the base) equally angled(the expansion of time the expansion of volume) infinitly with 4 edges or 4 faces or 4 dimensions. X, Y, Z, t (t, being time). They are like a symbol of 4th dimensional realm.

Current advanced physics and mathamatics use quantim physics 4! It is all based of a 4 dimensional world. Space-Time is the 4th dimension accoriding to Special Relativity.

What is space-time (basing off of the theory located here in this topic) says, space-time is the dimension you (as matter) displace, by taking up room in a vacume of space. This virtual blob that surrounds bodies of solid matter(for average matter space is filled in and around all atoms making you like a bunch of bubbles in space-time) is your reference frame in space-time. According to Special relativity it is a blob that surrounds standard atoms and applies laws to the matter that the matter follows. Velocity is proportional to your mass and space and time, or vice versa. So this blob (or also explained as matter-displacement void) of space-time you displace as matter is the reason why all things function as so.

Although current science can bascially be said that it says, space (the vaume of the universe that is pure infinism) or space-time is something that applies all the laws to all matter but does not exist.

 

I find this space to be the infinite source which reality is being test drivin within. Or if you prefer the big bang concpet of infinite repition. It (4th dimension the infinite space-time) is the Dimension that reality can prosper within.

[Turtle]

This is a little crazy stuff but I still want to post it.

This is from a forum which is related to the 11:11, clock, dna phenominom affected by millions around the world. 1111 celestical midwayers that do alot of strange things to people on this planet.

 

Quote:

November 11, 2005 - 11:11:11

(11) 2 + (11) 2 + (2005) 7 = 11

End quote:

 

 

I couldnt help but notice this is Katabatak math. A new type of math that I think is a kind of a caculus type of math. There is an excellent journey into katabatak math posted here:

 

http://hypography.com/forums/physics-mathematics/1343-katabatak-math-an-exploration-pure-number.html

 

It is quite simple to get a handle on. Not that you will understand it completely. (it is a kind of math that makes any number workable.)

 

11 11 11 2005 = 1+1+1+1+1+1+2+0+0+5=13, 1+3= 4, (4 is final and whole).

 

11:11= 1+1+1+1= 4

 

___Yes...& no. If you rewrite 1111 (one thousand one hundred one) in base eleven it is 820 & the Katabatak transform is J (see 'Jay', say ten) because 8+2+0 = J .Rewrite it in base twelve you have 779 & 7+7+9=1K & 1+K =1. Numerology relies on Katabataks, but Katabataks does not rely on Numerology. :)

[arkain101]

thank you. I figured I had no idea what I was doing.. but someone else went ahead and did the same thing (where I got it from), claims jesus is opening a portal over bali on the 11th this month...

[Turtle]

___Yes...& no. If you rewrite 1111 (one thousand one hundred one) in base eleven it is 820 & the Katabatak transform is J (see 'Jay', say ten) because 8+2+0 = J .Rewrite it in base twelve you have 779 & 7+7+9=1K & 1+K =1. Numerology relies on Katabataks, but Katabataks does not rely on Numerology. :eek:

 

___Note that I used 'J' for ten, where the convention is to use 'A' =10; the same where I used 'K', the convention is 'B' = 11. When I started working in different bases, I chose 'J' as ten because it is the tenth letter of the alphabet. Sorry for the confusion.

___A portal may or may not open, but numerals are not numbers & nothing is what it seems.

___Back on the gravity pushing, Southtown is making some analogy to Fuller's work & Arp's here:

http://hypography.com/forums/watercooler/3398-buckminster-fuller-5.html#post66496

[insight]

I was a bit suspicious thats all, I have gotten alot of weird responses before.

 

Of course, you can present your idea but you should prepare the consequences of that idea. I was not personally insulting you, just try to correct (or support :eek: ) you though.

i hope you can understand :)

[arkain101]

I don't mean to stray off of topic, but this is the sort of thing I am talking about with the 11:11. When I posted about it I didnt even realize the what the time came out to. The people that experience this have 11:11 incidents a few times a day, have street lights go out when they aproach them regulary. There is supposed to be 4th dimensional beings that are among us as workers to guide us back to the right direction. They are capable of making you want to look at the clock or control electrical devices. I know it sounds like crazyness but it affects more people than you would think.

"previous post"

Yesterday, 11:11 PM #77

arkain101

Thinking

 

 

 

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posts: 89 Re: Gravity is a particle that pushes!

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

thank you. I figured I had no idea what I was doing.. but someone else went ahead and did the same thing (where I got it from), claims jesus is opening a portal over bali on the 11th this month...

[Turtle]

I don't mean to stray off of topic, but this is the sort of thing I am talking about with the 11:11. When I posted about it I didnt even realize the what the time came out to. The people that experience this have 11:11 incidents a few times a day, have street lights go out when they aproach them regulary. There is supposed to be 4th dimensional beings that are among us as workers to guide us back to the right direction. They are capable of making you want to look at the clock or control electrical devices. I know it sounds like crazyness but it affects more people than you would think.

"previous post"

___Because we reside in different time zones, post #77 is time stamped 10:11 PM for me. I do understand about seeing patterns, especially numbers, in unexpected places & ways. About 1982 I started seeing 33 in the most unusual circumstances; flip open a book, page 33; check the clock, something:33; glance out the car, milepost 33. A little unerving at first, but over the years I have taken a method for acting on it. (It still occurs regularly). When I encounter 33 (or thirty three, orXXXIII, etc.) I immediately think back to my thoughts just before the occurence & whatever the thought is I assume the world agrees with it. Some call it synchronicity. It may or may not affect gravity. :confused:

[night-shade212]

It seems to me that the writer is suggesting that gravity is particle that exist outside a mass, instead of in it, and it pushes all masses towards each other. I think thats why he says that gravity pushes not pulls.

 

This idea is quite interesting. Although doesn't explain some things.

[Pyrotex]

... If you are on Jupiter there are more streams of gravity. The larger the object the more steams of gravity. Think of it as having many more archers. There are more arrows so the push is increased. ...

Hi Dannel,

welcome to Hypography. :hyper: As you can see, we tend to ask lots of hard questions. I have a few of my own.

 

Let's go back to the tire and the arrows scenario. All the archers are shooting at the tire hanging from a tree.

You say

Once gravity reaches an atom it exits the atom and looks for somewhere else to go.

So, if all the archers are shooting at the tire, then after the arrows get to the tire, they head off in a new direction. If we surround the tire with archers then there are as many arrows coming OUT of the tire as there are arrows going INTO the tire? Right?

 

So, it looks like poor Joe is being hit equally by arrows that come OUT of the tire as he is by arrows going INTO the tire. Joe is being pushed in opposite directions equally and should feel no force at all. Right?

So why is Joe ONLY hit by arrows heading INTO the tire?

 

In your first post, you say

The particle has no mass it can go any speed or direction it wants.

Assuming it "wants" to go in a certain direction, why?

What makes it want to go in THAT direction, say, towards the tire instead of away from the tire?

 

You say

...and 3) follow a missile that its fins pointing towards a plane's direction.

which I take to mean that if a gravity particle "detects" a planet and heads toward it, then other nearby particles follow the first particle.

 

How does a particle "detect" a planet or a tire?

Why would a particle "detect" the tire when the entire planet Earth is just a few feet away?

Wouldn't ALL the particles head to Earth and ignore the tire completely?

Wouldn't the particles in our solar system all head to the Sun and ignore the planets completely?

 

How does a particle "detect" another particle and figure out that the other particle is headed toward a target?

Do the particles talk to each other?

Do the particles emit smaller particles that communicate with the other gravity particles?

 

If the particles "push" against Joe by going through him, then Joe is gaining momentum--he is moving ever faster toward the tire.

Where does this momentum come from?

We know that momentum must be conserved (we have experiments that show this) so we must conclude that the momentum is taken from the arrow. Therefore the arrow goes slower. If the arrow has to go through Joe and then Joanne, the arrow isn't going to push Joanne as much.

How many people must the arrow go through before the arrow stops dead?

What happens then? Does the arrow vanish?

Where do new arrows come from?

Wouldn't this mean that one large body would "shield" gravity from pushing another body?

Suppose an incoming stream of gravity particles hit Jupiter before hitting Saturn, then wouldn't Saturn wander slightly out of its orbit? Because the gravitons that should be pushing it toward the Sun have been slowed down by Jupiter?

 

Assume that there are no planets in our solar system. All the graviton particles head straight for the center of the Sun. If they don't stop and vanish in the center of the Sun, wouldn't they keep going and push the Sun apart?

So, your theory really demands that the particles vanish at the center of the Sun. Right?

So, how do the particles know they are at the center of the Sun?

 

Okay, we have the Sun that's being hit by X gravity particles per second.

Now, let's put the planets back. Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, etcetera.

They now attract their share of the gravity particles. We know that all the planets and asteroids together amount to about 5% of the mass in the whole solar system.

So, shouldn't they attract (and destroy) about 5% of the gravity particles?

Doesn't this mean that the Sun now attracts only 95% of the particles?

Doesn't this mean that the Sun's "gravity" would decrease by 5%?

 

There are a lot of stars in the Milky Way Galaxy, about 100 Billion. If the gravity particles are stopped by hitting a star, then wouldn't the 20 or 30 Billion stars in the galaxy's core stop damn near ALL the gravity particles before they reached the center?

Wouldn't your theory mean that there is essentially NO gravity at the center?

Then how come stars near the center of our galaxy are rotating around "something" there that has a gravitational force of millions of stars? (Look up "Sagittarius A*" or "Sagittarius A Star".)

 

I'm sorry, Dannel, but I have to stop now.

I haven't even begun to run out of questions, it's just that I'm an old man and my fingers are getting tired.

 

If you cannot answer all these questions then I'm afraid your theory is hurtin' for certain.

 

Nelson / Pyrotex

[scotter59]

How about applying the multiverse concept to this, similar to a drain, all these little gravity particles tunnel to another universe upon impact with a massive particle. To us it appears to be a three/four dimensional drain, attraction. As for the source of these particles that would be space itself, a return to the aether, dark matter/energy. The gravity effect would be the "shock wave" of these particles traveling to the drain a collection of mass...

 

Okay that was fun, doubt that one has observed particle tunneling upon collision with a massive particle....

[Rade]

A few questions for OP author.

 

1. Does your model predict that gravity particle push or pull antimatter ? (for example, the matter proton and the antimatter proton--does gravity particle effect both the same ?)---same question for matter and antimatter quarks.

 

2. Via quantum theory, does the gravity particle also have wave function duality--that is, would you claim there is also a gravity wave that would be measured if you looked for gravity wave and not gravity particle ?

 

3. Is there an antigravity particle ? It is known there are antimatter electrons (positrons) and antimatter quarks and antimatter nucleons---is it the same for gravity particle ?

 

4. If the answer to question #3 is yes, then more questions (4b,4c,4d).

4b. What happens when gravity particle and antigravity particle collide ?

4c. What effect does antigravity particle have on matter proton (and quark) ? Push or pull ?

4d. What effect does antigravity particle have on antimatter proton (and quark) ? Push or pull ?