Piezoelectric earth

[FrankM]

In 1880, Piere and Jacques Curie identified quartz as a piezoelectric material. It took awhile longer to

identify the mechanism that made it piezoelectric and now many materials other than quartz are

manufactured with this characteristic.

 

One of the characteristics of piezoelectric materials is that they do not create an electrical output until

there is a change in pressure. The characteristics of the output, polarity and shape, will depend upon

the rapidity of the pressure change and whether it is an increased or decreased pressure. Some

materials are naturally piezoelectric, which means that the polar axis within the crystal are aligned

in the same direction. Artificially created piezoelectric materials get that way by the application of

heat and an electric field to align the polar axes in the same direction. The polarity of the electric field

determines the orientation of the alignment. All forms of rock are fine combinations of crystalline

material, and at depth rocks are subject to high pressures and heat. Figure 3 of the following article

denotes possible polar axis orientations.

 

Piezo

 

For some time, earthquakes and piezoelectrics have been associated, and it is generally postulated the

effect was associated with quartz-bearing rock. Earthquake lights are often cited as evidence of the

piezoelectric output, but little is known on how the electric charge associated with an earthquake moves

in the earth and what determines its polarity.

 

The big 1960 Chilean and 1964 Alaska earthquakes produced observable effects in the ionosphere and

serious studies have been underway to identify the mechanism.

 

NASA

Charge Carriers

 

The primary focus of these articles is the "dormant charge" and piezoelectricity was not mentioned.

The articles suggest that rock subjected to extreme stress suddenly behaves as a semiconductor.

 

Tthe 1964 Alaska earthquake created a large positive charge above the earthquake area. If we

postulate that the subsurface rock crystals were aligned as in the Figure 3(a), of the Piezo.pdf article,

and the earthquake created a decrease in pressure (stretching), the electrical output would be as

that exhibited in Figure 3©, positive toward the surface.

 

Is it reasonable to postulate that the "electrical output" of an earthquake could be dependent upon

whether or not it occurred in an area (depth) where the polar axes are strongly aligned, and of course,

the magnitude of the pressure change. How far the generated charge propagates before it goes to zero is

another issue.

 

Links corrected, the "L" process inserted another http in front of the referenced http string and I didn't

see it.

[Uncle Martin]

An excellent subject frank, very educational. The links don't work for me, I'd like to pursue this topic more in depth, could you please check that they are correct?

[Tormod]

Frank, you should put together a couple of hypographies on your subject for us. You have a lot of insight into this matter which could be very interesting to share with our non-forum users, too.

 

Anyway, thanks for your post. Most enlightening.

[Freethinker]

Yes very interesting. Is there any potential for utilizing this energy source for power consumption? Google shows a Piezoelectric effect for fault lines/ earthquakes. And using these effects for predicting them. What about using such energy sources for generating usable power? Would seem polution free.

[FrankM]

Some of the most interesting information about earthquakes and their manifestations are coming from

individuals that have academic disciplines outside of the geologists that have traditionally researched this

phenomena.

 

Changing the mindset of an academic discipline seemingly takes decades as the tenured professors

have the capability to squelch changes they refuse to accept. Who would have thought some 40 years

ago that an earthquake could have a significant effect on anything well above the earths' surface, other

than raising a bit of dust.

 

Precursors to the 1960 Chilean and 1964 Alaska earthquakes were detected by radio operators. A number

of radio services also noted the loss of signals that required ionospheric "skip" during the earthquakes

themselves. They did not know at the time an earthquake had occurred, but when the time and duration

of the "main event" was correlated with the time of the signal losses the association was obvious.

Although the pre-quake "emanations" created an unusual signature in the ionosphere, I cannot find

any references that this phenomena is being actively researched.

 

Strange animal behavior before earthquakes and the so-called earthquake lights seen in

conjunction with earthquakes was relegated to the pseudo-sciences (they were not observed using

scientifically trained observers nor were rigorous scientific methods utilized) and were not seriously

investigated by the academics who made their livings in the geologic sciences.

 

You can spend weeks going through the information about earthquakes that is in the Hypographies

posted by Tormond in Sept. 2001,

Earthquakes

One of the best summaries is the one titled, "Earthquake Prediction ",

Prediction

"One well-known successful earthquake prediction was for the Haicheng, China earthquake of 1975, ..."

 

Notice they used animal behavior as one of the precusors. One could write a thesis on animal behavior

before an earthquake, but I would recommend it be done by an someone in the Agricultural Sciences,

specifically Dairy Science. Students of Dairy Science know that cows react adversely to stray electrical

currents, refusing to drop their milk and doing strange prancing in the milking parlor or associated pasture

areas if a "stray potential" exists. The NASA report linked in a previous post indicates that the moving

electrical charges will hit the surface. "When charges flow, they constitute an electric current." I will

guarantee that electric current flow at the surface will have measureable potential differences over a

span of a couple feet or even less. Dairy farmers don't walk around in their bare feet, but the cows

sure do, as do all animals. I have read interesting reports on electrical problems at dairies and how the

cows reacted.

 

There are rational explanations for all anomalous events, and all it takes in many cases to identify the

causative characteristics is having the research performed by an individual with a multidisciplinary

education, or one that is not adverse to working with individuals with expertise in other scientific

disciplines, things they do not understand. Putting it all together is the real challenge.

[FrankM]

Actually I gave the Ag scientists too much credit beyond their expertise. They may be good as spotting

anomalous animal behavior but they do not know exactly what level of electrical current a particular

animal is sensitive too, you would have thought that someone would have done that. For a standing animal

just what is the most sensitive path? You can do a lot of testing in controlled conditions. You can measure

the animals leg to leg conductivity separately but you have to apply a known potential to determine an

animals sensitivity. Tsk, tsk, animal testing. Until you know what animals are sensitive to you will not

know how to construct an artificial sensor.

 

At dairies you know you are dealing with a 60 cycle AC (alternating current) potential (50 cycles in some

countries), but earthquake generated currents do not have predictable periodicities. You would think it

would be simple to detect if there were stray ground currents, especially if you know they are from a

known AC source, but the stray ground currents at a dairy are spread out. Earthquake generated

charges spread out over kilometer areas, and you don't know the rise time of the charge, or whether it

consists of just one big moving charge, or if it's stepped, or if it's symmetrical, or its latency, etc.

 

I began examining the nature of in-ground electric charges in an attempt to understand the characteristics

of the electric potential and currents in underground cavities. Everyone that hikes through mountains

is warned never to seek shelter in shallow caves and mines when there is a nearby thunderstorm. I

actively sought answers from academic sources in earth sciences and mining with the following question,

"What are the measured potentials and currents in different types of caves and mines (depth, size and

shape), in ambient conditions versus during thunderstorms?" I also wanted to know if they measured

wall to wall along with floor to ceiling potentials and currents.

 

The answer, it hasn't been measured.

[FrankM]

The following quotes are from my post of 08/11/2004 01:01 PM

Although the pre-quake "emanations" created an unusual signature in the ionosphere, I cannot find

any references that this phenomena is being actively researched.

I need to correct that statement and say it is being actively researched.

 

Liu, J. Y., Y. J. Chuo, S. J. Shan, Y. B. Tsai, Y. I. Chen, S. A. Pulinets and S. B. Yu (2004). Pre-earthquake

ionospheric anomalies. Annales Geophysicae 22: 1585 - 1593.

 

Pulinets, S. A., A. D. Legen'ka, T. V. Gaivoronskaya and V. K. Depuev (2003). Main phenomenological

features of ionospheric precursors of strong earthquakes.

J. Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics 65: pp 1337-1347.

 

Strange animal behavior before earthquakes and the so-called earthquake lights seen in conjunction

with earthquakes was relegated to the pseudo-sciences (they were not observed using scientifically

trained observers nor were rigorous scientific methods utilized) and were not seriously investigated

by the academics who made their livings in the geologic sciences.

 

Tributsch, H. (1983). When Snakes Awake: Animals and Earthquake Prediction. Cambridge, MA, MIT Press.

Helmut Tributsch is Professor of Physical Chemistry at the Free University of Berlin

Animals

He is not a geologist. The original was in German and is out of print. Another interesting book by the

professor is mentioned here: http://www.innovationwatch.com/books/bks_0262200457.htm

[IrishEyes]

FrankM, your thread is informative and impressive. Thanks for the research, and for presenting it in such a readable manner.

 

My favorite line from this thread so far: 08/11/2004 07:01 PM - "Putting it all together is the real challenge."

 

I could not agree more! This is perhaps one of the hardest things to do in any situation - completing the puzzle. Having all of the pieces and trying to figure out how they fit is one of my favorite past times. Of course, not knowing if you have all of the pieces makes it exponentially harder. And finding out halfway through that you've got someone else's puzzle mixed in with yours is just downright frustrating.

 

Not really sure where I was going with this thought, but had to tell you that I thoroughly enjoyed the read!

 

[FrankM]

Well, piezoelectric action may NOT be the big player in earthquake precursors. It appears I may

have presented an erroneous postulate. From my original post,

Is it reasonable to postulate that the "electrical output" of an earthquake could be dependent upon

whether or not it occurred in an area (depth) where the polar axes are strongly aligned, and of course,

the magnitude of the pressure change.

Piezoelectric action may be present but it might be the lesser of the actions. The article below is dated August 2001.

Freund

"They (positive holes) can cross grain boundaries nearly unimpeded. Therefore, they can carry currents

through otherwise insulating rocks." There are enough other revelations in the report to give us pause to

think just how much we do not know about the characteristics of many materials.

 

A report to be released in September 2004 describes laboratory tests wherein a Calif. quartz bearing

granite and quartz-free lower crustal anorthosite from Larvik, Norway were subjected to very high

pressure. It essentially confirms that rock turns into a semi-conductor when subjected to extreme stress.

The report also indicates the current generated during the 1999 Chi-Chi earthquake could range from

10^6 to 10^8 amperes, that is a lot of amps.

 

Hopefully, I will get an official posting address soon after it is officially released. I received the information

after I made my postulate, thus asking or proposing something based upon erroneous assumptions can

get one better informed.

[alexander]

Hey, I've been out of it for a little while, but plan to return to the forum pretty soon, just dont have any time.

FrankM said:

Strange animal behavior before earthquakes and the so-called earthquake lights seen in conjunction

with earthquakes was relegated to the pseudo-sciences (they were not observed using scientifically

trained observers nor were rigorous scientific methods utilized) and were not seriously investigated

by the academics who made their livings in the geologic sciences.

You know, its strange... I was watching this program yesterday on the science channel about the Oracle of the Delphi, and they said that perhaps the most probbable reason why the Oracle's power declined was an earthquake. Anyways to the point, although the change in animal behavior was never scientiffically investigated, there have been numerous occasions where it has been documented throughout the history of earthquakes (like the one that happenned in Greece before the fall of the oracle). Numerous scources told a story of all rats and snakes leaving the town of Delphi, dogs going crazy and biting through the ropes only to never be seen again, lights in the sky, and sounds of wind in the middle of the knight without a breeze. Researchers couldnt explain the fenomena and thus didnt believe that it happened. It wasnt untill recently that they could explain it. The earthquake shook up greece once again recently, and once again there were rats running across the road, dogs and cats going crazy, lights in the sky and sound in the standstill air...

 

Sorry guys i have to run, ill try to continue this when i come back today, hopefully...

[Tormod]

Originally posted by: alexander

there have been numerous occasions where it has been documented throughout the history of earthquakes (like the one that happenned in Greece before the fall of the oracle). Numerous scources told a story of all rats and snakes leaving the town of Delphi, dogs going crazy and biting through the ropes only to never be seen again, lights in the sky, and sounds of wind in the middle of the knight without a breeze. Researchers couldnt explain the fenomena and thus didnt believe that it happened. It wasnt untill recently that they could explain it. The earthquake shook up greece once again recently, and once again there were rats running across the road, dogs and cats going crazy, lights in the sky and sound in the standstill air...

 

I read the same thing about the eruption of Vesuvius in AD 79, that the quakes prior to the eruption caused animals to run away before the big event.

 

Sorry guys i have to run, ill try to continue this when i come back today, hopefully...

 

Always good to see you, alexander.

[alexander]

Sorry if you had to wait for so long for a continuation of my response, mu absense was in part due to my computer's memory failure that i had to diagnose and fix, but it's working fine for now, so ill try to continue my line of thought from a previous post.

Ok, as i was saying "The earthquake shook up greece once again recently, and once again there were rats running across the road, dogs and cats going crazy, lights in the sky and sound in the standstill air..."

similar reports have come in from other big earthquakes, namely the one that happened in 2003 in the Xinjiang region of China destroying over 10,000 homes. Researchers have been perplexed with the strange phenomena occuring around time of these earthquakes. A researching station positioned in the Mediterranian off of Balkan Peninsula recorded sudden temperature spikes of the sea bed occuring every few hours prior to the earthquake and water bubbling (actually they said that at first they thought that the sea was boiling) and strange lights in the sky just before the quake struck. A few theories have come out: one states that gas that lies deep underneeth the ground and was gradually released by the tectonic activity prior to the quake was to blame for everything, others said that even though gas explains some phenomena, it does not explain the animal behavior, so they added the possible low frequency sound emmited by the plate activity that was unheard by mans ear, but would drive the animals crazy. Again, many more theories, some incorporating the piezoelectric propperties of the minerals lying within the earths crust making electrical discharges that lit the gas escaping from crust making the sky light up in different colors.

Actually i think the program was on the history channel, also not all that i said appeared in it, well most of the stuff on the earthquake did, but i also researched a little on the subject, consulted with the encyclopedia and read a few theories in a couple of books in the library a few months back on the subject, because i accidently came across them.

Always good to see you, alexander.

Thanks Tormod!

[FrankM]

There is a lot of research going concerning earthquakes effects other than the physical displacement

of the ground. The following has a 2001 date. (17K)

 

Ground-Atmosphere-Ionosphere

 

This one is more comprehensive with a 2003 date. (556K)

 

Rocks that Sparkle

 

The above report addresses biological effects on animals and humans. This helps to identify where

folklore and scientific explanations are merging.

 

Added 9-2-2004

The meeting in Taiwan commemorating the 1999 Chi Chi earthquake will be September 8th. The article

by Dr. Freund and others will be presented at this meeting and hopefully it will be posted shortly

thereafter. The laboratory tests on the two rock types, denoted earlier, reveal how they briefly become

p-type semiconductors.

 

Chi Chi

[FrankM]

Electrical output from rock that is not a function of piezoelectricity is discussed in the report at the URL

below. I do not belief this is going to be the permanent location for the report, FF_iSTEP_2004.pdf, so

save it for your own reference.

 

FF_iSTEP_2004

[FrankM]

The reference to animal behavior was in my post of 08-18-2004 07:56 AM.

 

I made a statement earlier about earthquake ionosphere research in my post of 08/11/2004 01:01 PM

Although the pre-quake "emanations" created an unusual signature in the ionosphere, I cannot find any references that this phenomena is being actively researched.

I have found that some very serious research is being conducted in the above area using a satellite.

 

http//smsc.cnes.fr/DEMETER/GP_mission.htm

 

http//smsc.cnes.fr/DEMETER/GP_actualite.htm

 

Ionosphere changes are being detected during earthquakes by the satellite.

[jay1923]

Sometimes, in my opinion, the answer is very simple and rudimentary. Perhaps electrical discharge within the atmosphere of an earthquake is mere "pressurization of particles." Obviously if the earth were to shift vertically a few meters, then there would have to be a pressure flux. A global flux of that magnitude would create a great deal of static electricity. This pressure flux could affect a few of the following:

1) An animals inner ear – which would explain animals’ erratic behavior

2) Frontal weather activity – explaining atmospheric discharge (lights/lightning)

 

Keep in mind that the mantle of the earth is liquid. The pressure of an earthquake is probably dispersed within the atmosphere as well as within the liquid mantle itself. It wouldn’t surprise me is an (high magnitude) earthquake were to spawn a volcanic eruption soon after. At that point, you are talking basic physical reaction.

 

You have to think of the earth in terms of a (atmosphere) SCUBA tank, and maybe a (mantle) wave machine. Put those 2 together, and I think it would be a lot easier to visualize why things are going to happen globally.

 

But then again, I never went to college so what do I know...

[alexander]

I dont know about Tormod, but the effects on animals that i was discussing were mostly prequake ones occuring before the movement of the earth, well before major movement of the earth anyways, i think that it could be caused by sounds that could be made by 2 plates under great pressure slipping and rubbing against each other, not exactly an earthquake yet, but enought to produce the sound. The fact that not all animals in all the areas around could be explained by for example canyons or dry river beds or earth indentations of some kinds that would be able to magnify the sound. We would not be able to hear it without special equipment, but animals on the other hand have a way broader hearing range, this stuff going on for a while could drive them crazy or just trigger their instincts to run away because there's going to be an earthquake there soon.