[HydrogenBond]

The numbers are less than I expected. It is not as much as I thought, considering their advanced capability and small tax base. Maybe because of access to advanced tech without the R&D costs, that make toilet seats cost $500. for American tax payers, they can get more for the $2B.

Here was my next line of thought. Israel is sort of a mini super power, with nukes and advanced capability. This may have been needed during cold wars times. If they were downgraded, via alterring the preferred tech status, from mini super power, to an important world power, they would still be very capable of defending themselves. If they wanted superpower status they would need to raise taxes and we would sell them that extra capability, but at a fair market price. The extra internal pressure due to taxes would shift attitude more toward the diplomacy. This may lead to some serious dilogue that may help get Israel some local allies.

[HydrogenBond]

I would like to add something important that needs to be addressed. I thought about this, and I do not mean anything in an anti-semetic way. I have many good friends who are Jewish. Good people are good people. When one talks about Israel one is required to walk gingerly on eggshells or risk being stereo-typed anti-semetic. There is a preferred script, and anything not on the script is treated as an insult and labels one a bigot.

If one wants to rag on the Catholics, Baptist, Mexicans, Arabs, Americans, etc., one is cut more slack. The script is a little more flexible. I do not believe in any one-sided way of thinking, but usually like to argue both sides, so I can learn the arguments of both sides. When it comes to Israel this is hard to do in any public forum without feeling threatened with the label of bigot even if the intentions are to seek the truth.

[Racoon]

HydrogenBond said:

Here was my next line of thought. Israel is sort of a mini super power, with nukes and advanced capability. This may have been needed during cold wars times.

And it is needed now too!
Now that the Cold War has turned into Terror War...

Why does the United States so veheminately defend a little strip of desert??

I have never understood anti-sematism.
after WWII, its very taboo obviously...

Mossad... They may not always have our best interests in mind, but Israel knows on which side their bread is buttered.

Jerusalem. the Origin of major religions is the only reason I can come up with.
That and mutual distrust of Radical Muslims

[HydrogenBond]

Israel has an historical/religious claim to that strip of land. But in the last millenium or so, the Palestinians, had a tangible claim to the same land. It is loosely analogous to the way South Africa was, with a more advance culture, which came much later, taking over the land, and then making the indigenious peoples second rate citizens, without even the power to vote. It is great for the top dog but sucks for the bottom dog.

Unlike all the South African tribes, the local Arabs, are not willing to just accept the situation and wait for world justice to step in. Peaceful demonstrations would have no impact. At the same time, because Israel is so well armed, they have enough sense not to fight man-to-man. The only way to fight is what we call terror attacks.

Picture if you were in a backwoods part of a country and your strong neighbor decided to annex your land. The courts don't want get involved because ypour neighbor has political clout. You will not be able to fight your stronger neighbor because he will kick your butt, especially with the local football team training him and giving him supplies. Your can just accept defeat or learn to be more treacherous about how you get even with the neightbor. Since this fued is doing nobody any good, since it is taking up a lot of time and energy for both parties, if an arbitrator steps in and decides to give you back 30% of your land, your neighbor become indignant because you are not happy with his major consession.

The South African example may be the solution. Allow all the people in the land to have the right to vote and learn to live as one country.

[HydrogenBond]

Israel is a complicated situation. There is a lot of modern day and historical animosity between the cultures. If both cultures are first class citizens in the same country they both own the land and want to make it look nice. Human don't take up that much room, unless they they bring all their baggage from the past. Then they need more room to store all that junk.

[Freddy]

The creation of the State of Israel was one of the great mistakes of the 20th Century. What did the US, Britain, France, and the USSR expect the Palestinians and the Arabs would do? Britain bears the most blame with its 1917 Balfour Declaration which named Palestine as a possible "Jewish National Home" with full support of the British government. Hitler's Germany bears responsibility for forcing thousands of Jewish refugees out of Europe where many settled into Palestine. The World Zionist Congress began its push for Israel circa 1897. The UN created Israel in 1948 and the UN must find a peaceful solution. The Arabs rejected the original Partition of Palestine in 1947 and who could blame them. Wars in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982, and another one on the horizon must end. There has to be a comprehensive compromise settlement for all, Israelis and Palestinians. Until this happens terror on both sides will continue! Any ideas?

[Racoon]

Freddy said:

The creation of the State of Israel was one of the great mistakes of the 20th Century. What did the US, Britain, France, and the USSR expect the Palestinians and the Arabs would do?

Dude. Good post, BUT

What do you think people were thinking at the end of Goddamned WWII????

Shit! Mass Graves and Concentration camps! everything F*ing Bombed!!
People dead everywhere! The world in total F*ing Chaos!

Everyone's Sick, Tired, Handicapped, or dead!
The Middle East came out pretty unscathed actually. So lets reappropriate the Jews original homeland.
Who cares what a million or so Palestinians think at that point?

Everyone else went through Hell!

You must put yourself in their shoes at their time.

We were lucky Axis nations didn't win. It was close!
Even now we are still suffering the consequences.

I support Israels right to exist. The Palestinian plight is terrible. But not everyone can be happy all the time.

You did post some good logic Freddy. As well as HydrogenBond.
It is indeed a tricky situation.
One rooted in deep and bloody history

[HydrogenBond]

Israel is made complicated because tto much bad blood has been created on both sides. Maybe what Israel and Palestine need is a common enemy to bring them together. If they learn to rely on each other they will respect each other and become friends. Maybe we can ask the Martians to put a little scare in them.

[infamous]

Buffy said:

Could we spend less? Sure. But none of this "aid" can be shown as being us "taking sides" with anyone other than those who want to make peace rather than war.....

Excellent point Buffy, I'm seriously considering, voting for you for President...............................Infy