[Tim_Lou]

as i saw the olympics, things like running, swimming... are mattered by a very small fraction of a second...

as time passes on, it will become smaller and smaller and apporching zero...
i believe that it would be similar to other subjects.

well, maybe in one day, that everything has reached our limit.... nothing new is introduced, nothing is beyond... and we are all waiting for some sort of benefitical mutations to occur...

[IrishEyes]

Tim,
I have no idea what you mean by your post, or if you are trying to start a discussion. Is there a direction in which you would like to see this go? Was this just a random thought that went through your head and you decided to share it? Please let me know, as I'd like to contribute to the discussion, but I'm not sure WHAT the discussion is supposed to be.
Thanks,
Irish

[Tormod]

I think tim is thinking about how records are broken by smaller and smaller units...often hundreds or thousands of a second.

But this is only a practical problem. What they do is change the rules, tools and other factors. Like in the javelin throw competition they recently changed the way the javelin has to be manufactured in order to make it more difficult to throw. Then they erased all the world records and started over (I know because Norway won the women's javelin gold in Sidney and now the men's gold in Athens ).

With the 100 meters dash I'm not sure what they can do but apparently the keep breaking the records. A shame with all the doping, though.

Mutations would probably not change the face of sports, since we would need a lot of mutations in a lot of people who happen to do sports, or else the olympics would become the Mutantlympcis, sort of like paralympics on steroids, with a medal for every conceivable kind of mutation. Okay, you got three legs? the three-legged height jump os over there.

[Tim_Lou]

well, i dont really know what im talking about...

i heard about the limitation of genetics once from my teacher, maybe we are getting close to our limit...

well, what i mean is that maybe there is certain thing that we will never be able to do. Such as, for me to play sport (i hate sport), or for certain artist to learn science... maybe it is just so impossible that DNA is limiting us...

[IrishEyes]

Maybe we're talking about something similar in another thread. But maybe I can't remember which one it is right now. i think it may be the thread about intelligence, and how difficult it is to measure. We've strayed into the 'limitations' arguments a few times, and it always interests me. Share more of your thoughts, tim... unless you want to check out the other thread and post there???

[Tim_Lou]

like animals, different species have totally different abilities and adaptations....
different kind of humans, are just like different species, its just that the DNAs are more similar then that comparing to different species.

an idea is that we are not made equally, people have different limitation just like rabbits cant kill a deer as a tiger can....(but its way far beyond the limit of a rabbit).

a part of an article from an website: [url="http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/genetics.html
">"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="]http://www.unm.edu/~...r/genetics.html
[/url]
</a>

"Genetic Limitation: A Lame or Valid Argument ?
The contribution of genetics to athletic performance is difficult to apply to a broad population. There is no question that genetic differences separate elite athletes from those of us who no matter how much we train, are restricted to compete against our previous personal best time. However, this does not detract from the performance feats of elite athletes. Sedentary individuals differ in their fitness level because of physical inactivity and not genetic capacities. Training is required to exploit the genetic potential of any individual. Elite athletes, although genetically gifted, need to be respected for the training they have completed in order to achieve their genetic potential. The difficulty lies in quantifying how much of an influence genetics has on specific components of fitness, and how certain genetic traits enable a given individual to respond more to a given training stimulus than another.

The role of genetics in determining exercise performance is best viewed at different levels of influence (Figure 1). The very nature of genetics is based on the expression of genetic information (i.e. from genes) that directs the cellular development of an organism. In humans, we can exemplify cellular genetic regulation in the type and concentration of certain enzymes in skeletal muscle, which in turn influences the metabolic capacity of the muscle, which in turn influences adaptability to training, which in turn will determine the potential to excel during exercise. A similar approach can be taken for other tissues that are known to be important during exercise, such as the heart, lungs, blood, and nervous system. However, before discussing how genetics influences exercise performance, it is important to understand how research is conducted to study the genetic contribution, and the limitations associated with these approaches."


as the level of everything is apporaching our limit today, the innate ability seems to be more and more important during these days.

also, we would have a limit as a whole, b/c the biochemical structure of the DNAs are similar in every single one of us, and there would be a limit in the whole structure of it. well, mutations must occur in order for us to go beyond, and the speed which we approaching our limit is faster than that mutations would occur... over the centuries, our world record is increasing by little and littler...

does it mean that we should not try our hardest to the most impossible things?
i dont know....well, maybe some day we will be able to measure our limitations...
but if the limit is found, some people would be very depressing or.....there will be a problem...

[IrishEyes]

Tim, what a wonderful post! Thanks so very much!!!
We did touch on this a bit in the other topic, but I like your new info. Would it be possible to re-post the link, as I can't get it to work?
As for your questions, I don't really have an answer.
It would seem that there are human limitations. However, as people keep surpassing these limitations, it also stands to reason that the limitations are not set in stone, but that they will continue to vary. Are the limitations genetic? Possibly, as evidenced by the info that you posted. Is it possible to overcome the genetic limitations with training and hard work? Obviously, as evidenced by the many records broken during the latest Olympiad. Will we, as a race, ever reach the 'final limits'? I think that is your question. I would have to answer - probably NOT, but I really don't know.

Anyhow, great topic!

[Tim_Lou]

well, the webiste:

http://www.unm.edu/~.../genetics.html


i think the best way to do it would be just highlight it and paste it to the website colume...

thx btw, i feel that im doing some goods here... : )

[Tormod]

Quote

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou
thx btw, i feel that im doing some goods here... : )

As always, Tim.

[Tim_Lou]

well, from this topic, another problem comes up...

is nuture more important?
or nature?

[Tim_Lou]

i've watched a great show about sex yesterday, it shows that nuture does not overcome nature..

the link of the program below:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/gender/

there were a pair of twins born, one of them's penis was burned off by a terrible mistake...
dr. john money talked to the parents, they decide to change him into a female, nuture him as a female...
(1st time ever doing an operation like this in history)


as time goes through, it looks perfect...
however, when he steps in the teenage, problem arose.........
he became very rebellious and confused... and over many years, there was no news about this "guys"

after 20 years, he stepped up, and told how he felt.
he was never happy to be a female... and now he changed back to male, dressed like a male and have his penis reconstructed... and a wife and 3 kids.

sexes are a bit different that limitations.... but however, it shows that the power of nature, is divide.