[pgrmdave]

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Management, "GODDAMN IT, Schwartz, it CAN'T work that way!"
Uncle Al, "but it does"

I get the impression that Unc is nearly the same in real life as he is online

[Jay-qu]

sounds like an interesting job

[Turtle]

pgrmdave said:

I get the impression that Unc is nearly the same in real life as he is online

I sure as hell hope so. er...sure as heck...yeah , that's the ticket.

His insect ecdysteroid mimesis alone classifies him as honorificabilitudinitatibus.

ec·dy·sone (kd-sn)
n.
A steroid hormone produced by insects and crustaceans that promotes growth and controls molting
mi·me·sis (m-mss, m-)
n.
1. The imitation or representation of aspects of the sensible world, especially human actions, in literature and art.
2. Biology Mimicry.
3. Medicine The appearance, often caused by hysteria, of symptoms of a disease not actually present.
The possibilities boggle my mind. I don't know whether to laugh, or cry. I smell life extension. Little shot of Al's juice & voila...cacoon!

[IDMclean]

Alright so I wanted to learn the basics I have an idea as to what the difference is between a Cation and an Anion.

I know the theory of Thermite and the procedure. Beyond that I have to admit that I have some how mangage to miss every oppertunity to learn chemistry. I have zero background, except for about one week (total) worth of reading (Late-Highschool, Early College Textbook) over the course of about 10 years.

So lay on the basics. I have a heavy background in physics and a light background in biology. I would ask questions, but that would be the issue with not knowing diddly, don't know what questions to ask. I have some answers but not many questions, and Uncle AI this is advance warning. No flaunting superiority, I am not interested in what you do and do not know, nor what you had to go through to get there. I am only interested in Chemistry 101 and resources for independent study once I get some basic questions formulated.

-I have all kinds of answers in life, shame I don't know all kinds of questions.
Talk to me like I'm a two year old Clown.

[Michaelangelica]

UncleAl said:

I have a 1450 carat Type IIb "diamond" (glass paperweight) on my desk courtesy of my current CFO. It could happen - they want bulk abrasive. Huge gems would be deliciously insubordinate.

Even old King Tut only had a glass one.(cheapscate)

Admittedly it was old.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5196362.stm

[Jay-qu]

KickAssClown said:

Alright so I wanted to learn the basics I have an idea as to what the difference is between a Cation and an Anion.

simply, a cation is a positive ion while an anion is a negative ion.

[IDMclean]

Check, Ion is a molecule with either a surplus or a deficency of electrons in orbit?

[UncleAl]

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I am only interested in Chemistry 101 and resources for independent study once I get some basic questions formulated.

Not nearly good enough. You must know everything to know anything. Rote memorization leaves you an educated cripple - a biologist's head bursting with vast numbers of disconnected facts. You must understand.

Is your left foot different from your right foot even though it is a mirror image? Sure! A given shoe wll fit differently on either foot. How different is your left foot from my left foot? How do you quantitate footedness? One is knowledge, one is understanding. Uncle Al needed 18 months of daily work to understand said mathematics. His first hint of success was finding an (admittedly small) error in the mathematician's published work. Number Two was causing NIST's commercial stereochemistry software to be rewritten. It had passed tens of thousands of test cases. So? Theory is killed by a single contradiction.

There is reason to believe the whole of physics is wrong for the same reason. Predictions will not change but theory must be completely rewritten - with new options appearing. Nobody will do either of the probe experiments because "they cannot possibly work." But they can, and without raising a sweat while succeeding. Somebody should look.

[IDMclean]

Uncle AI, as informed as you are, and as bright as you are, I take little notice of what you have to say regarding various topics anymore. I have given you two warnings in the past, you are leaning towards three.

I learn the Answers and the Questions so that I can examine them and compare them to what I already understand. In this case I have read the books and I can understand a little bit, enough to know not to mix certain things. I lack however a complete understanding, I have a knowledge basis but it is not connected to a concrete basis (understanding).

You have your process and I have my own. You may enjoy courses which eliminate 70%+ of it's student body, but I do not. I do not infact perfer school at all, most often it is full of Elitist Snobs, Authoritive Dictators, and Overly-Critical-Know-It-Alls (or Know-Nothing-at-all depending on perspective). None of these types have EVER contributed anything worth knowing or understanding to the pool of human knowledge. They learn the procedures and memorize but they do not cognate.

Info In Info Out. No real data manipulation or heuristic analysis to develop new ways of processing. Think what you wish, but know that you do not know who I am nor where I come from. You know nothing about me. You may know your chemicals and what this or that tool is called but you know nothing of my character or person. You have never met me and you have never truely listened to anything I have to say.

You have stated several reasons why this is, but all ends up as a cop-out. We mutually do not wish to communicate, though I am willing to continue communications at current that door is rapidly closing. I have survived to where I am at so far without you or anyone else for that matter and I will persist long after you have found your way six feet under. Our paths, like everyone else's, are not unique and merit little more than what they are capable of understanding.

I look forward to a complete run down of the basics, and if you wish to teach those then I am all ears, however if you want to presume to teach me how to learn, then you are sorely mistaken in your perceptions and understanding of me as a sentient being. I asked for a primer of Chemistry 101, not for your opinion regarding how to go about learning, knowing and understanding the given topic. That is my task not yours and I have my technique, you have yours, respect that or leave me be.

[Mercedes Benzene]

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Check, Ion is a molecule with either a surplus or a deficency of electrons in orbit?

Yup... but it doesn't have to be a molecule. It could be an atom.

[learnin to learn]

what are the purpose of positive and negative charged particles in chemistry? I mean how do they differ from particles with no charge, and what can you use them for?

[Jay-qu]

electical currents, for one. Sub atomic particles carry a charge and atoms will have a charge equal to the sum of the charges of its sub atomic particles. Charges on atoms arrise when they take on extra electons, or lose electons.

[Mercedes Benzene]

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what are the purpose of positive and negative charged particles in chemistry? I mean how do they differ from particles with no charge, and what can you use them for

There need to be charged particles because a lot of compound sin chemistry countain ionic bonds. The "charges" represent the number of electrons compared to the original atom.

Here's a little lesson on ionic bonding to help you understand electrons a little better.
Atoms want 8 valence electrons, where "valence" means the outer-most electrons.
Let's take Salt (NaCl) as an example:
Sodium (Na) has 1 valence electron.
Chlorine has 7 valence electrons.

Since Chlorine only needs one to become "stable", then it is easy for it to "grab" one from another atom.
Sodium on the other hand needs seven to become "stable". It is easier for the Sodium atom to lose its one electron, than it would be for it to grab 7.
Therefore, sodium will "donate" its one electron to an atom that has seven...

In this case, its Chlorine. Once sodium donates one, and the chlorine accepts that one electron, both atoms are satisfied!
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As for your original question: charges are used for naming ionic compounds mostly, but serve other purposes too..

[Jay-qu]

note that as with most rules, there are exceptions. Its not always 8!

[Mercedes Benzene]

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note that as with most rules, there are exceptions. Its not always 8!

Yes, that's true, but I'm trying to keep it simple here for our "newbie"...