ScienceGuy

I commend your imaginative thought with this subject. Where is the rest of this great book that I might be able to examine it? I might also ask why we do this in a thread about dinosaurs?

--------------------------------- Show me the beliefs based on your Great Invisible Pink Unicorn and I will consider the science behind them. If you can give your theory on how everything came to be on Earth based on this GIPU which surpasses a reasonable understanding in my mind, I will believe in him too. I certainly cannot prove something based on nothing. My views of God are based on the Bible, from which I have given you a theory of creation and origin of species. If the theory I gave you has major flaws (which to you will have something to do with God) please present them so I can alter, revise, or abolish my hypothesis. I am glad that you finally told me your stance though. How can the unicorn be invisible and pink at the same time? I thought pink to be a shade in the VISIBLE light spectrum.

"You never mentioned that. What do you mean by "EQ"?" EQ is the Encephalization Quotient which plots brain size and body size for different kinds of animals. www. csubak.edu/~ghurlburt/ghresrch.html or users.tamuk.edu/kfjab02/dinos/VPtheropodspaleobiology.htm The second of these sites I was unable to open. I believe it is the one I got some info from. I hope you have better luck. "Right. In fact you are providing us with evidence which supports evolution, right? You did read the last sentence on that page to which you linked?" Again correct, this all goes back to the original post about the evolution of intelligence in raptors. At the end of which I made clear that it was not my view on the subject. This was a HYPOTHETICAL train of thought based on evolution of dinos over an extensive time period that COULD have evolved intelligence based on the rate of the small mammals intelligence to humans today. I do not believe evolution works on this extensive of rate. My view involves a different starting point for species, but with smaller evolutionary consequences. Please tell me if you need more web sites.

That is not the post I was referring to. I was referring to the one we discussed (sort of) in Evolution vs religion. That is where I was going to leave that debate. You would not give me your view, I will stop giving you mine so you will stop ripping on the Christians. All of your replies had no science which is what you now want to discuss. I give you a scientific hypothesis (based on a Christian view) and your counter to that is something anti-religious. Give me another hypothesis that sounds better based on science. I do believe "some big guy in the sky snapped his fingers and it happened", prove me wrong! I want to learn from these debates, but I want to learn facts and figures that will support a theory. Please and thank you.

But every example we have shows the other way around. The longest lasting creatures tend to have the least intellegence. In fact, one might wonder if intellegence is potentially a limiting factor in the evolutionary process. Finally some science from the smart person. There is one thing better, I agree with all of it!

The evolution of raptors, even those did evolve as pack hunters, has a long and twisting tale. We won't need to discuss origins here, just where it has or could have gone. According to some paleontologists some therapods (raptors) evolved into birds. The birds have not gone anywhere, in fact there are thousands of species of birds on this planet. Some of them have evolved in different ways but none of which have evolved intelligence(as we are implying in this case). If these are direct decendants of raptor dinosaurs, they haven't evolved much in the intelligence area. As for the raptors that died out in the meteor/volcano/acid rain event, we really don't know. We can theorize that in 65 million years they could have. Troodont was a raptor with a large brain capacity for its body size. In proportional terms its brain equivalent was larger than the mammalian counterparts of its day. If evolutionary theory is right it may have had the largest (most intelligent ) brain today if humans were counted as well, which we would not be here in that case, and this would be pointless. Given enough time they may have evolved as much intelligence as Freethinker. This above is all based on scientific findings, but not necessarily my view. If you would like my view I will give it. I will give you what I think about dinosaur intelligence and evolution based on where I think it all started, but only if someone asks. All of my theory may be based on Christian content or origins.

I do remember the first post where I did mention that I believe creation and evolution did/do happen. I don't remember deviating from that theory. I do recall asking you many questions that you don't seem to reply to. What is the matter? Do you have a problem quoting and answering the scientific questions? I think you are only here to give Christian views the ax based on your bias arrogance and bitterness. You have not given me fact. You give me reasons why Christians put themselves ahead of everyone else (supposedly). I have asked for your stance on evolution since I know your stance on religion. You have not replied to it. All you come up with is opinion based on your hatred of Christianity or God. I replied to the evolution of dinosaurs because I believe they did evolve. I also believe that therapods came from bird ancestors which God created. Is that plain enough for everyone? If you want to discuss dinosaur evolution any further, please tell me why I am wrong on a scientific level. I have given you an explanation, give me yours. I will not accept the answer of "creation is a myth." That is based on your opinion with no scientific fact, or give scientific fact that says creation did not happen. Please stop dodging the important questions that should be asked of this topic.

For the sake of saving this thread, I will not do the creation debate in here. We'll save that for the other thread. Until further finds are made that show evolution in small stages resulting in astronomical advances this question is always going to be answered based on bias opinion. Those who do believe in God will answer in a few different ways, and evolutionists or atheists will try to say it differently. My view: Based on a religous perspective and my view (sorry freethinker, I am giving opinion of science based on what I see) dinosaurs would evolve, but the rate at which they would evolve would not be the same as what others consider. I believe that birds and fish and some other sea creatures were made by God at about the same time. Theropod dinosaurs evolved from a variety of bird-like animals. This could account for the many theropods that had feathers. It is also much easier to lose those feathers if they were not needed for flight. The feather is an elegant design that would need more than a fluke of nature to pop out of nowhere on a raptor all over its body and in a couple millions of years you accomplish powered flight. For those of you who want to challenge this theory, answer this. Which is more believable? A whole bunch of raptors all were evolving feathers at the same time, for which it would not have benefited some, along with all the other neccessary things that needed to evolve to fly and evolution had the key to do it. OR Bird-like animals that were created warm-blooded found a niche in which they could live on land which did not require the use of flight. By evolutionary processes, they lost some of the unneeded feathers, which accounts for the fossils we find today. Relatively unchanged for quite a while these animals did evolve, but not into completely different classes of animals. Fish and other marine animals evolved little also unless you take size into account. The bigger an animal was the harder it was to take down. Therefore you get sauropods growing to outdo the therapods and the therapods growing to keep up. If they had not gone extinct, I believe they would have continued on an evolutionary track, but again, I don't think it would have been a fast paced track that evolutionists of today think. Intelligence would most likely not appeared in any of the dinosaurs. This is why I can explain that crocodile in my terms. It has evolved very little; same as any other created animal. It was able to survive based on what they said. Evolution will occur given time, but just how much we have yet to realize. Freethinker, before you rip this apart, these are my views based on what I believe. Do not attack my beliefs, attack the science. It may be myth to you, but God is important to me. I have faith. I wish you could too.

A very interesting question and debate. I am very much on your side at this time. Crocodiles have changed very little in the millions of years that they have been on earth, even some predating the dinosaurs. Is it possible that they stayed essentially the same over this long of time but we had only 65 million years to go from a shrew to highly intelligent man? This type of evolution is strange. These same crocodiles were on the same Earth with the same climatic conditions and undergoing the same type of reproduction as most other animals and they hardly changed at all. I think we have much more to find out about the fossil record before we can say evolution has a major role on this planet.

I must ask why you answer everything with riddles? Do you really think of yourself as a freethinker or is that just a dream of yours? Please state for me your stance on evolution vs. religion. If it is pure evolution and a big bang with no higher power in charge, then I would like to see your explanation. Go through your idea of how we all got here and how you came to that conclusion so we can all pick apart your thoughts. Do you believe in God (or any god)? I will allow you to change your stance at any time. This is a learning process that we go through. I will change my stance if you can prove my theory is wrong. That is why I am here right now. Tell me why it is wrong, don't tell me my logic or reason can't be proven. If evolution can be proven wrong, would you agree that a God or some higher power might have created everything? It wouldn't take much to do it. I have already given you some hints on how to do it. The quote at the end of these posts comes from Darwin, but your smart you already knew that. The point is, he obviously believed it was possible that he was wrong. I also believe it is possible that I am wrong. I am a freethinker based on fact. Evolution has never been proven. It is full of holes or gaps, and hence theory. I must ask, what do you fill your gaps with?

It seems to me that you do not discuss possible scientific views in your posts, but rather how to contradict what everyone says. That is one possible way to look at things. I am giving you a possible solution to how the Biblical creation story could make sense given the scientific findings that we have today. They may be changed or proven wrong in the future. This explanation I have given seems more logical (to me) than a six consecutive day creation week or the evolution of every living organism by chance alone. Granted, this is my view, you don't have to believe it. I would consider any alternative you will give me based on science. One more thing, God is the gaps, He is here for everything. Calling the plagues and creation fairytales is based on what? Did you research the plagues? Give me science to refute science, not just opinion of God or no God.

I have never posted anything in my life, but I couldn't pass this up. I have read some of the material presented in this topic. Some of the material is not worth anything, but everyone has there own views. Now I present a radical view, Everyone (almost) is right in some way. Is there a way that science (evolution) and God could coexist on the same level? Yes! The creation is scientifically explainable just the same as the plauges of Egypt. God may well have created the universe using the same parameters and time as we see and experience today. Some things are still debateable and by no means a perfect fit, but science evolves every day to fit new findings. The role of life on Earth is harder to explain, but a religious viewpoint of how it started combined with evolution can be traced in the fossil record for many animals. New ideas change the world. I am not a Christian Scientist; I have never been associated with them; I do not wish to be one. I want to change the mentality of people on Earth to be a world with values and morals. If they take the scientific world and see that God did create everything in it, the choice is with them to believe. To be saved you must believe! The contradictions in the Bible relating to creation are a tool to give a possible explanation of how it just could work. This brings up the day-age theory and other assumptions. The Bible was written at a time when they did not understand most any science as we see it today. Interpreting the meaning of days and the viewpoint of the people a long time ago must be taken into consideration. The creation was written from the viewpoint of a hypothetical person around at the time of creation. The phrase "let there be" does not mean that it just appeared out of nowhere. Instead it is easy to see that it means the things described came to pass during this period. In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth - A general statement identifying God as creator. This allows for the scientific Big Bang 13 to 16 billion years ago (bya). Galaxies, solar systems, stars, planets, and moons appear. Ours began about 5 bya. The sun is forming and the disc of gas and dust around the sun is forming planets and other large bodies by gravity. As the Earth is forming during this time a large Mars-sized object hits the protoEarth and forms a large dustcloud. The dust does not settle, but rather blocks out the light from any sun or stars that may reach Earth. And now we start the day sequences. Day 1- Let there be light gives the realization that darkness is upon the Earth which is "void and without form." The cloud of dust and the thick atmosphere now allow the sunlight to show through. Note: Again this is from the viewpoint of a person on Earth. Day 2- There is no oceans yet, but the thick water vapor and CO2 atmosphere condenses to form the oceans. The water vapor and CO2 came from outgassing of volcanoes. Day 3- Dry land appears as a process of cooling continues. Plants appear on dry land. There has been found Archean plant fossils dating back 3.4 to 3.5 bya. This throws a big kink into evolutionary theory. Consider that life as a whole is something special and that God creates life in his own way. There is sunlight on Earth for plants to grow, but the sun is still not visible. Day 4- The sky now clears. The dust and basaltic rock around Earth accretes to form the moon; with the dust gone the sun and stars are clearly visible. Day 5- Birds and fish appear. Science agrees that most life did start in the ocean, hence the fish. The birds are harder to explain, but there is evidence to support. Most scientists agree that birds came from raptor-like dinosaurs or therapods. This is strange since many types of bird-like animals are found in the fossil records many millions of years before the first raptor fossil. Evolution of feathers is a huge leap, and evolution is suppose to benefit the animal in small, incremental changes. Feathers and the lungs of bi