SteveKlinko

Exactly. That is why I am pushing for Science to be able to Measure Conscious Experience. We would then be able to Experience what other Minds Experience. This will need to be accomplished before Science can understand what it is doing. See https://theintermind.com/#MeasuringConsciousMind

We do not See things in the external World, but rather we Detect things by using internal Conscious processes that we are born with. We all have a personal Conscious Light Screen (CLS) that we use to detect what is happening in the external World. All the Conscious Light of your Visual Experience is painted onto that Screen. If we try to describe where this CLS is located it seems to be embedded in the front of our faces in some way. The CLS is vaguely horizontally rectangular with ambiguous edges that are hard to locate exactly. The screen seems to fade into nonexistence (not even Blackness) beyond the borders. But wherever you look, that screen is there showing you with Conscious Light what is in the scene you are looking at. To understand this better close your eyes and observe what you See. At first there may be various After Images that represent remnants of what you were looking at, but eventually these fade away. What is left is not totally black. Note that you might have to put your hand over your eyes if you are in a bright place in order to cut off external Light from leaking through your eyelids. Most people will notice a background that has a vague grainy noise almost like the video snow noise that appeared on old analog TVs. However, this Noise is less distinct and appears to be changing much more slowly than the TV Noise. This Noise is referred to as the Visual Dark Noise when Retinal and Cortical Activity are measured using instrumentation. It is due to random Retinal and Cortical firings. But we are not making Physical Measurements, instead we are being aware of our Correlated Conscious Experience of the Visual Dark Noise. We are Experiencing the Conscious Light which is on the Dark background. Let's call this Conscious Light Experience, the Conscious Light Noise (CLN). CLN really is the background noise in your Visual detection system. Most people easily perceive that this CLN, and possible After Images, are close to the front of their faces. If you move your head around, you will See the CLN and After Images move around with your head, which keeps them in front of your face. If you move your eyes up, down, left, or right, the CLN and After Images will seem to be displaced a little in those directions, but will still basically be located in front of your face. It is interesting to note that After Images will always look close, even if the scene element that caused the After Image is far away. Now you know where your CLS is located. Of course this is probably only an apparent Location because the CLS is a Conscious Mind phenomenon and is not constructed from any Physical Material that can be Located anywhere. However, it sure seems to be Embedded in the front of our faces. When you open your eyes the scene that you are looking at is painted onto your CLS and it is harder to perceive that the Conscious Light making up the image is still close to your face. Your Visual system tries to give you the illusion that there are things that are far away and things that are close. If you look through only one eye the depth illusion is less pronounced. But the Conscious Light that the scene is painted with is actually still located close to your face and is at the same distance as the CLN. The illusion of distance is absolutely necessary for moving around in the World. Our Visual Experience is optimized to show, in great detail, what is in the center of the Scene we are looking at, but we notice increasing ambiguity farther from the center. We can easily move our eyes around to capture the full detail of any Scene we are looking at and produce what is in effect a High Definition, Wide Screen, Multi Color, presentation on our CLSs for our Conscious Minds (CMs) to Experience. It should be mentioned that the things and scenes you See while Dreaming are painted onto your CLS. If you try to imagine some object, you will see a grainy, hazy, version of that object painted onto your CLS. If you rub your eyes, the Lights that you might See are painted onto your CLS. The CLS is a general purpose Visual Display Device for all Conscious beings, whether Human or Animal. The Light that is painted onto your CLS is your Light. We walk around all day long looking at our CLSs which are embedded in the front of our faces. We cannot See the CLSs of other people but if we could it would be as if everyone was wearing Virtual Reality goggles. But instead of goggles it would be Conscious Light Screens. We think we are Seeing the external World directly but we (our Conscious Minds) are always just looking (in some Conscious way) at our own CLSs.

The Wave Equation is based on some assumptions and approximations that make it solvable. I have always hated the Hermitian Matrix assumption. It is the reason why there is always a Phase component in the solution. There is also a Linear assumption along the way in the derivation that I didn't like. Everybody is currently looking at their own possibly wrong Things. I like my Thing and will attempt to show that it is not a wrong Thing by designing Experiments that will prove it.

Of course, QT is described by QM principles which is derived from Energy balance equations. The equations provide probability distributions but say nothing about possible modulations of those distributions. The connections obviously do need Brain because a Brain is where the connection takes place. Thank You I will be trying to work at the level of a single Electron in the Phase 3 experiments. This definitely will be subject to QM effects. If Consciousness can be implicated in QM processes, then I hope to eventually find that out. It's a long road ahead with the Single Electron devices but I'm taking my time and will try to, with the help of a group of Subject Matter Experts, devise some good Experiments.

The steps for implementing the Scientific Method for a Machine Conscious Experiment can be stated as follows: Ask a Question: Are there such things as Conscious Minds in Conscious Space? Background Research: Read and Study everything possible about Consciousness and Conscious Experience. Emphasis will be on Human Brain Physiology and especially what happens at the Neural Activity Level with regard to Conscious Experience. Unfortunately, and Surprisingly, it was found that no Scientific Explanation, using known Scientific Phenomena, exists for Consciousness and Conscious Experience. Hypothesis: Conscious Experience happens in a separate Conscious Space from the normal Physical Space. It is hypothesized that Conscious Minds in Conscious Space can Connect with and affect Physical Brains or other Material in Physical Space. It is further hypothesized that Quantum Mechanical principles may be involved in this Connection process. Experiment: Use the Quantum Mechanical Tunneling Phenomenon to see if it can be used to show a Connection between Physical Space and Conscious Space. (Details below.) Analyze Data: Let Experiment run for a long time to collect massive amounts of Data. Try to find behavior in the data that indicates Non Random behavior. Make Conclusions: Decide if there is Non Random behavior. If there is, then analyze and reanalyze to be sure there is no normal Physical reason for the results. The Connection Perspective of the Inter Mind Model (IMM) enables the conceivability of actually designing Experiments for Machine Consciousness (MachCon). The Connection Perspective stipulates that there is a separate Conscious Space (CSp) concept apart from normal Physical Space (PSp). The IMM also stipulates that there is an Inter Mind (IM) concept that bridges the Gap between PSp and CSp. The basic premise of any MachCon Experiment having this structure is that something in CSp is able to affect something in PSp. This would correspond to a Conscious Volition (CV) concept existing in CSp. The CV will need the resources of an IM in order to have an effect on anything in PSp. There are two Quantum Mechanical (QM) phenomena that can be considered as a resource that the IM might implement. The first QM phenomena involves the Wave Function of an Electron and the second QM phenomenon involves the effect of Quantum Fluctuations on Electrons. The following Phase 1 Experiment descriptions depend on the existence of a latent Consciousness of some kind in CSp. It is also assumed that this Consciousness can use QM principles to affect PSp. Each Experiment provides a method to detect changes in some parameter that can be controlled by a QM principle. A series of measurements will have the characteristics of a random signal when there is no Conscious control. If there seems to be a bias or correlation in the data that is not purely random then that could be evidence of Conscious control. This is what we will look for. It is known that Electrons can travel through Energy barriers and actual Physical barriers due to the Quantum Tunneling effect. The probability that an Electron will Tunnel through a barrier is controlled by the Wave Function of the Electron. The speculation is that maybe something in CSp is able to control Wave Functions in a way that will enable higher or lower probabilities of Tunneling. This speculation can be tested with certain Electronic devices that exist today. Tunnel Diodes and Floating Gate Transistors have been used in separate Experiments. The Tunnel Diode based experiment is described in Machine Consciousness Experiment Legacy. The Floating Gate Transistor based experiment is currently running and generating data for analysis. The Tunnel Diode experiment ran for 2 years and generated GBytes of data. Unfortunately the results were swamped by the random noise in the system. There was never any indication that a Conscious Mind was controlling the experiment. This first experiment was really a Hail Mary Pass in order to try to at least Do Something. The first problem was that the Experiment used only two Diodes which probably was the equivalent of having only two Neurons. The second problem was that it was measuring the changes in a 1nA current which is 6.24 billion electrons per second. It was the best that could be done using bread board level electronics in a spare bedroom lab situation. The coarseness of the measurement doomed it from the start. Practically speaking there is no way to reduce the coarseness to a low enough level to make an analog experiment like this sensitive enough. The Floating Gate Transistor version of the MachCon Experiment has been running for a couple of months. See Machine Consciousness Experiment. However it too has not exhibited anything except random behavior. But it is early and maybe given more time some positive results can be realized. A 1 Mega bit Flash memory is used in this Experiment. Now we effectively have 1 Million Neurons. To program a Zero into the memory about 50000 Electrons must Tunnel onto the Floating Gate. This is vastly less coarse than the Tunnel Diode situation but is still pretty coarse. The next MachCon Experiment will have to incorporate an array of Single Electron Tunnelinig (SET) Transistors. As its name implies these devices can handle single electron charge movements. This will enable a Coarseness that is Billions of times less than the situation with the Tunnel Diode and 50 Thousand times less than the Flash Memory. Unfortunately, the SET Transistor is still at the experimental laboratory stage. Even if there is a latent Consciousness in CSp that is ready to interact with the world through QM principles, the question could be asked as to why this Consciousness would want to interact with the world in a case like this? A Consciousness would probably need some kind of Motivation to act. Maybe an act of CV will be activated only when we understand how to produce a Discomfort or Pleasure in CSp. This might motivate an act of CV that will affect the Tunneling characteristics of an Electron. The Experiment should be programmed to then reward the act of CV by lessening the Discomfort or increasing the Pleasure to close the loop. This could be how it all works at the single cell level or at the Amoeba level. Quantum Fluctuations are highly hypothetical events where small bursts of Energy or Particles appear briefly and randomly out of supposedly empty space. It is thought that if a Quantum Fluctuation occurs near an Electron that it could have an effect. There is anticipation that the SET Transistor could be exploited to measure these Quantum Fluctuations. The speculation is that maybe there could be evidence of Consciousness in the occurrence of Quantum Fluctuations given the right circumstances.

I don't study animal Brains. Let's stick with Human Brains. But I can speculate that the Connections are probably different in Animal Brains and that as Brains evolve then Connections evolve. Science has a very advanced understanding about how people Evolved from lower forms. But Science has no Clue about Consciousness, even though they claim that they do. Wrong a mundo. I said that we don' have to understand it before we can design Connection Experiments. I never said we don't have to ever understand it. Nobody can say anything about the true nature of a Wave Function. It seems to be a Mathematical contrivance, but there is probably more existential reality to it. You have to understand that this is all speculation but: Conscious Space is Dimensionless: https://theintermind.com/?SourceTag=None#Dimensionlessness Conscious Space is Timeless: https://theintermind.com/?SourceTag=None#Timelessness I am saying that for the sake of the Experiments that the Human Body including the Brain is an Unconscious Thing. The only Consciousness you have is in Conscious Space. This Consciousness Connects with the Body/Brain (probably only the Brain). Separating the Conscious Mind (CM) from the Physical Mind (PM) allows a whole new Perspective for understanding various operational aspects of Consciousness. Some previous experimental deductions and conclusions about Consciousness, using the Physicalist Perspective, may have to be overturned when using this new Perspective. For example, this separation provides a new way of understanding the effect of Anesthesia. With the old Perspective the reasoning was like this: The Neural Activity was halted and Consciousness seemed to also be halted, so therefore Consciousness must be in the Neurons. With the new Perspective the reasoning would be: The Neural Activity was halted and Consciousness seemed to be halted, so therefore the Connection must have been interrupted. With this new Perspective, Consciousness itself was not halted but rather the Connection from the PM to the CM was interrupted. We don't know what the CM does during an interruption. But since Anesthesia can halt Memory operations, the PM will not have been able to save any Memories of the interruption, that could be accessed by the CM after the Connection is reestablished. The old Physicalist assumptions about how PM injuries affect Consciousness will have new interpretations using the Connection Perspective. After a PM injury, the Connections between the PM and the CM can be disrupted. Memories may be difficult to retrieve, Volitional control of the body may become erratic, and the Personality might even be changed. But these are PM degradations and not CM degradations. The CM will not be affected because the CM is connected through the IM to the PM. The IM protects and buffers the CM from PM damages. The CM will effectively be Connected to something different after a PM injury. The CM will try to do the best it can with whatever PM it is Connected to, regardless of the PM degenerations that exist. This separation of CM from PM also presents a new Perspective for thinking about the Sub-CM versus the CM. It is logical to speculate that the Sub-CM is completely implemented in the PM. Many of the actions we do everyday are controlled by Sub-Conscious Brain Programs that run in the background, out of view of our Conscious awareness. The IM needs to make the Processing decisions for which of the Activities in the PM should be Translated into Conscious Experiences. The IM implements the Binding Processing necessary to create a usable Conscious Experience of the External world for the CM to operate in. It would be very confusing and inefficient if the IM had to Translate all Neural Activity, including the Background Brain Programs, into Conscious Experiences. There has always been an intuition that there was a separate Conscious Mind and Sub-Conscious Mind. It is now easy to see how this PM to CM separation logically and naturally predicts a Sub-Conscious Mind concept separate from the CM. There are much faster things and slower things than our Consciousness. The CM Experience of the world is as fast as the PM will allow. We can't perceive a speeding bullet because it is faster than the PM can operate. Some people will argue that this means Consciousness is a PM limited phenomenon and proves that Consciousness IS the PM and nothing more. But this Physicalist assumption is Naive. This does not mean the CM itself is limited, but just that when the CM is correlating with a PM, it is limited to what the PM can do. Remember that the Connectist view considers the PM as just a Tool that the CM uses. The CM might be capable of much more and since I am suggesting that the CM is not even in Physical Space but in Conscious Space. we don’t know what the limits really are. We may be very surprised by our limitations someday after we shed our Sluggish Human Brains and transfer our CMs to artificial versions of a Brain. Yes, that is what I want to prove or disprove. But there may not have to be a violation of Physics. It might not take any Energy (if that's your concern) for Consciousness to affect the Wave Function of an Electron. In the case of Quantum Vacuum Fluctuations we have a phenomenon that is Fluctuating little spikes of Energy and or Particles into Physical Space. Maybe Consciousness can direct these Fluctuations to affect the Brain at the Electron or Microtubule level.

https://www.neuromedia.ca/cortical-areas-and-their-functions/ Remember that the greatest Minds in Science have tried to show that Consciousness is in the Neurons, but they have come up with Zero explanations for how it could happen. It could be said that the greatest Minds of Science have concluded that it is Inconceivable how Consciousness actually is in the Neurons, or is a result of Neural Activity, or is Emergent from the Neurons. The obvious realization is to conclude that Consciousness is not in the Neurons. It can be speculated that Consciousness is Connected to the Neurons. With Connectism it is not necessary, at first, to understand Consciousness itself but only to understand the Connection mechanism. With Physicalism the whole concept of Consciousness must be understood and Explained as being somehow in the Neurons. There is no easier Connection mechanism to understand with Physicalism. The Connection Perspective of the Inter Mind Model (IMM) enables the conceivability of actually designing Experiments for Machine Consciousness (MachCon). The Connection Perspective stipulates that there is a separate Conscious Space (CSp) concept apart from normal Physical Space (PSp). The IMM also stipulates that there is an Inter Mind (IM) concept that bridges the Gap between PSp and CSp. The basic premise of any MachCon Experiment having this structure is that something in CSp is able to affect something in PSp. This would correspond to a Conscious Volition (CV) concept existing in CSp. The CV will need the resources of an IM in order to have an effect on anything in PSp. There are two Quantum Mechanical (QM) phenomena that can be considered as a resource that the IM might implement. The first QM phenomena involves the Wave Function of an Electron and the second QM phenomenon involves the effect of Quantum Fluctuations on Electron From a Signal Processing perspective, Conscious Experience appears to be a further processing stage after the Neural Processing. Conscious Experience also appears to be a different and separate kind of phenomenon than the Neural Activity. So first, let us qualify the normal space that we know and call it Physical Space. Next, let us introduce a new concept and call it Conscious Space. Let Conscious Space be the abstract place where our Conscious Experiences and therefore our Conscious Minds are located. Our Conscious Minds are our own little pieces of Conscious Space. We can say that our Brains are located in Physical Space and our Conscious Minds are located in Conscious Space. Therefore, from a Systems Engineering perspective, this means that Brains must make a Connection to Conscious Space in some way. With this Connection Perspective, it is not necessary, at first, to understand Consciousness itself but only to understand the Connection mechanism. With Physicalism the whole concept of Consciousness must be understood and explained as being somehow in the Neurons. There is no easier Connection mechanism to understand. I make the claim that any Physicalist explanation about the effect of Anesthesia, Brain Injuries, Congenital conditions, etc. can also be explained using the Connection Perspective. Interestingly, the Connection Perspective predicts that there should be a Sub Conscious aspect to the Brain. Most Researchers expect that Consciousness will be found to be some Biochemical process in the Neurons. But please let me ask you to speculate and suppose that the Brain is not Conscious, and that the Brain Connects to Consciousness. This invites the suspicion that if Consciousness can Connect to unconscious Brains, then Consciousness might be able to Connect to unconscious Machines, given the right Technology. The Connection from Brain to Consciousness must be a two-way communication. Neural Activity in the Brain must be transformed into an Experience in Conscious Space. We can view this as an Outgoing Signal from the Brain to Conscious Space, and we can call a device that implements this for a Machine an Experience Portal or ExPort. Also, Volition from Conscious Space must be transformed into Neural Activity in the Brain that can produce Movement. This can be viewed as an Incoming Signal from Conscious Space to the Brain, and we can call a device that implements this for a Machine a Volition Portal or VoPort. Of course, this is all very speculative right now. The only way we will ever know if it is correct or not is by conducting appropriate Experiments. The fascinating thing is that it is feasible to conduct such Experiments. That is what I will be trying to do.

Nobody knows anything about the Consciousness of Dogs (probable), Fish (less but probable), Bugs (even less and low probability), Bacteria (probably not). I can say no to Robots. I am certain because Designers don't know how to design the Interfaces. I am working on that. From the Connectist view Volition comes from Conscious Space which is not even in the Brain, but rather Connects to the Brain. You must be the dedicated Grammar and Spelling Zombie for this Forum. Good to meet you.

Connectism is my Ism. I have always promoted the Connection Perspective, but Connectism is a more compact way to express the concept. Connectism is the concept that stipulates a Physical Space (the one you know), but also stipulates a Conscious Space where Conscious Experiences happen. Also Stipulated are that the two Spaces are Connected to each other. The connection is accomplished by an Inter Mind concept that translates Neural Activity into Conscious Experience for the Conscious Mind. The Inter Mind also translates Conscious Volition from Conscious Space into Neural Activity for Movement in Physical Space. Yes, from a Connectist point of view this Conscious Space could be Connected to anything that has a compatible Connecting Mechanism. Connectism actually predicts that there should be a Sub Conscious Mind. Since it is proposed that the Connection is primarily to the Cortical Areas of the Brain it makes sense that the other parts of the Brain will be able to do Algorithmic Processes that are not immediately Conscious. In fact, Connectism supposes that no part of the Brain is actually Conscious, but rather the Connection to Consciousness makes it seem Conscious. The Machine Consciousness Experiments assume the following: 1) There is a separate Physical Space and a separate Conscious Space. 2) There is a Conscious Volition concept that originates in Conscious Space. 3) This Conscious Volition can affect Physical Space given the right Connection mechanism. 4) Quantum Tunneling might be affected by this Conscious Volition. 5) Measure a Current or Frequency that is dependent on the Quantum Tunneling. 6) Look for Non Random aspects in the Current or Frequency that might be an indicator of a Volitional affect. You have a Huge Explanatory Gap in asserting that Consciousness is a Process sort of like Combustion. That is just Pull It Out Of The Air kind of Science. It is actually quite Incoherent.

First of all, this is a Philosophy sub forum. This should be where new concepts, that might be outside the Scientific Box, are discussed. Concepts in these kinds of Forums may one day be welcomed into the Scientific Box. Consciousness is a particularly Embarrassing topic for Science because, let's face it, Science has no Clue. I have always said the anything and everything is still on the table when it comes to Consciousness. If a Machine Consciousness Experiment is feasible then it should be conducted. It will either be successful or not.

It's your prerogative not to click. Game playing is irrelevant. A Brain or a Machine can perform the required algorithms. (Learning is just another Algorithm) But a Brain can know it won a Game and can enjoy winning the Game because it is Connected to Consciousness. A machine does not know it won the Game and cannot enjoy winning the Game because it is not Connected to Consciousness. The Machine Consciousness Experiments are an attempt to Connect Machines to Consciousness.

From the perspective of Connectism a Machine or a Brain is not Sentient. But a Brain is Connected to Consciousness and a Machine could theoretically be Connected to Consciousness. But the concept of a separate Physical Space and a separate Conscious Space (Connectism) is the key. The Machine Consciousness Experiments are an attempt to prove Connectism. Maybe it's true or maybe it's not true.

What do you think of this company and Machine Consciousness? https://digiphase.com/?SourceTag=AudioStream

Let's talk about what the implications will be when Science is finally able to Measure the Conscious Experience (CE) of a Conscious Mind (CM). This is more complicated than it seems because it is anticipated that there will be greater differences between the CEs of different CMs than we think. The problem is that Science will need to directly Produce the exact CEs of one CM in another CM. For example, displaying the Visual CE of CM-A on a Display Screen will do nothing to show CM-B what CM-A is really Experiencing. This is because the front end processing of CM-B will filter the image on the Display into the normal CE of CM-B which can be quite different from the CE of CM-A. So Science will need to discover how to directly Produce CEs in CMs. This will necessitate some instrumentation or processing that does not use Neural Activations but rather uses direct Activation of possibly the Inter Mind (IM) or the CM. Science clearly has no idea how to do this at this point in time. But what if Science could Measure CEs and Produce CEs as explained above? This will require a complete theoretical understanding of Conscious Space (CSp), CMs, and CEs. Imagine the fantastic Experience of Seeing the Visual CE of some other CM. It might be more Alien than we can imagine. When we can truly Experience the Visual CE of another CM we might begin to understand some of the absolute incomprehensible proclamations of the Philosophical Illusionists. What is it that they Experience that can lead them to proclaim that Consciousness is just an Illusion and does not Exist? I have suspected for a long time that the Philosophical Illusionists have a vastly different kind of Visual Experience than I do. It would be fantastic to find that out! Also, what if Science could Measure the Conscious Volition (CV) from a CM? Similar to CE, this will require a complete theoretical understanding of CSp, CMs, and CV. This might enable a CM to control Physical things in the Physical World directly from CM desires. There would be no Neural Activation needed because the CV would come directly from a CM. Imagine a Technology that can convert camera signals directly to a Visual CE. This might allow the Color Blind to See Color! This might allow the Blind to See! There will be no Neural interface needed because this will be a direct to CM process. This Technology might also be applied to all the other Senses with the same implications as for Vision. There might be an interesting feature of directly Producing the Visual CE into a CM for the inevitable event of the loss of the Physical Mind (PM). Since this direct to CM Production did not use the PM, the CM might still be able to use the Camera to See into the Physical World after Death! If a CV connection is also established, this could be the first step in Connecting a CM to an Artificial Intelligence based Physical Body.

Could be, but Connect is the most descriptive of what the situation is. Ignoring that you are probably just messing with me, I can say the Connection is not any kind of calculation. It IS literally a CONNECTION, and not some mathematical concept. So, I don't quite understand why there needs to be Infinite FLOPS.