Does God exist?

[Pyrotex]

...That's OK, I understand, I was once in that sort of coma. I woke-up and one day....

I suspect that you did not "wake up".

 

I suspect that you "gave up".

 

A lot of people find Science to be too hard for them, or not worth the effort. And so, they set out to become an "expert" in something else. It's okay. There's nothing "wrong" with that.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Oopsie, My bad… that should have been description of energy.

 

That's fine, but the Eastern philosophies still haven't described energy in a measurable way. It's metaphysics, not physics, and as we all clearly know the two are not equal, so you're premise is false.

 

Yes it is metaphysics, which is not a scientific usage, because it is not used to measure, and utilize in a technological sense That does not make it of less value however. The goal of a metaphysician is to utilize the energy to enhance and focuses perception Inward in the ability see how the mind operates. Therefore your assumption is false.:)

 

In Indian philosophy, the main terms used by Hindus and Buddhists have dynamic connotations. The word Brahman is derived from the Sanskrit root brih – to grow- and thus suggests a reality which is dynamic and alive. The Upanishads refer to Brahman as ‘this unformed, immortal, moving’, thus associating it with motion even though it transcends all forms.’ The Rig Veda uses another term to express the dynamic character of the universe, the term Rita. This word comes from the root ri- to move. In its phenomenal aspect, the cosmic One is thus intrinsically dynamic, and the apprehension of its dynamic nature is basic to all schools of Eastern mysticism.

They all emphasize that the universe has to be grasped dynamically, as it moves, vibrates and dances. (Fritjof Capra, 1975)

 

The Eastern mystics see the universe as an inseparable web, whose interconnections are dynamic and not static. The cosmic web is alive; it moves and grows and changes continually. Modern physics, too, has come to conceive of the universe as such a web of relations and, like Eastern mysticism, has recognised that this web is intrinsically dynamic. The dynamic aspect of matter arises in quantum theory as a consequence of the wave-nature of subatomic particles, and is even more essential in relativity theory, where the unification of space and time implies that the being of matter cannot be separated from its activity. The properties of subatomic particles can therefore only be understood in a dynamic context; in terms of movement, interaction and transformation. (Fritjof Capra, The Tao of Physics)

 

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Oopsie, My bad… that should have been description of energy.

 

 

 

Yes it is metaphysics, which is not a scientific usage, because it is not used to measure, and utilize in a technological sense That does not make it of less value however. The goal of a metaphysician is to utilize the energy to enhance and focuses perception Inward in the ability see how the mind operates. Therefore your assumption is false.:)

 

No a metaphysician uses BS to separate you from your money with out really doing anything.

[Thunderbird]

No a metaphysician uses BS to separate you from your money with out really doing anything.

Does that include my Buddist friend. That has taken a path of poverty,:)

and servitude.

[Moontanman]

Does that include my Buddist friend. That has taken a path of poverty,:)

and servitude.

 

Yes as a matter of fact it does, he might not own anything but his order or church does. He probably lives quite well compared to someone who really is poverty stricken. Some where some how some one is raking in the money from his and others actions in some way. If not how do they build their temples and feed themselves? They do no real work other than fooling people into believing something that is false. Your friend may truly believe but he is still a tool of the corrupt religious system :sun:

[InfiniteNow]

Yes it is metaphysics, which is not a scientific usage, because it is not used to measure, and utilize in a technological sense That does not make it of less value however.

Value is a subjective, meaningless, and arbitrary label in the way you have used it here, and it is not an inherent property of the topic being discussed.

 

I'd suggest that because metaphysics is not scientific, that becuase it is not used to measure, and because it is not used in anything but imagination that it really is valueless.

 

You can argue against me all you want, you are still mistaken in your conclusions because your premises are so false.

 

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the mental masturbation which is metaphysics, but that doesn't mean that it's equivalent to actual physics, nor does it provide any substantiated help to anyone suggesting existence of god (which is what this thread is supposed to be about).

[Thunderbird]

Yes as a matter of fact it does, he might not own anything but his order or church does. He probably lives quite well compared to someone who really is poverty stricken. Some where some how some one is raking in the money from his and others actions in some way. If not how do they build their temples and feed themselves? They do no real work other than fooling people into believing something that is false. Your friend may truly believe but he is still a tool of the corrupt religious system :)

 

You think Buddhism is a corrupt religious system ? I guess the Dali Lama is a fraud also? :sun: Anyway this is for you Chicken Little. :doh:

 

 

There was once a man in the Ch'i State who was so afraid the universe would collapse and fall to pieces, leaving his body without a lodgment, that he could neither sleep nor eat. Another man, pitying his distress, went to enlighten him. 'Heaven,' he said, 'is nothing more than an accumulation of ether, and there is no place where ether is not. Processes of contraction and expansion, inspiration and expiration are continually taking place up in the heavens. Why then should you be afraid of a collapse?' The man said: 'It is true that Heaven is an accumulation of ether; but the sun, the moon, and the stars--will they not fall down upon us? His informant replied: 'Sun, moon and stars are likewise only bright lights Within this mass of ether. Even supposing they were to fall, they could not possibly harm us by their impact.' 'But what if the earth should fall to pieces? 'The earth,' replied the other, 'is merely an agglomeration of matter, which fills and blocks up the four comers of space. There is no part of it where matter is not. All day long there is constant treading and tramping on the surface of the earth. Why then should you be afraid of its falling to pieces? Thereupon the man was relieved of his fears and rejoiced exceedingly. And his instructor was also joyful and easy in mind. But Ch'ang Lu Tzu laughed at them both, saying: 'Rainbows, clouds and mist, wind and rain, the four seasons--these are perfected forms of accumulated ether, and go to make up the heavens. Mountains and cliffs, rivers and seas, metals and rocks, fire and timber--these are perfected forms of agglomerated matter, and constitute the earth. Knowing these facts, who can say that they will never be destroyed? Heaven and earth form only a small speck in the midst of the Void, but they are the greatest things in the sum of Being. This much is certain: even as their nature is hard to fathom, hard to understand, so they will be slow to pass away, slow to come to an end. He who fears lest they should suddenly fall to pieces is assuredly very far from the truth. He, on the other hand, who says that they will never be destroyed has also not reached the right solution. Heaven and earth must of necessity pass away, but neither will revert to destruction apart from the other.

 

The speaker means that though there is no immediate danger of a collapse, it is certain that our universe must obey the natural law of disintegration, and at some distant date disappear altogether. But the process of decay will be so gradual as to be imperceptible. Who, having to face the day of disruption, would not be alarmed?

 

The Master Lieh Tzu heard of the discussion, and smiling said: 'He who maintains that Heaven and earth are destructible, and he who upholds the contrary, are both equally at fault. Whether they are destructible or not is something we can never know, though in both cases it will be the same for all alike. The living and the dead, the going and the coming, know nothing of each other's state. Whether destruction awaits the world or no, why should I trouble my head about it

http://http://www.damo-qigong.net/book/religion/taoteach.html

[InfiniteNow]

Quit with ad hominem attacks already. Jesus ****ing christ.

[Thunderbird]

Value is a subjective, meaningless, and arbitrary label in the way you have used it here, and it is not an inherent property of the topic being discussed.

 

I'd suggest that because metaphysics is not scientific, that becuase it is not used to measure, and because it is not used in anything but imagination that it really is valueless.

 

You can argue against me all you want, you are still mistaken in your conclusions because your premises are so false.

 

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the mental masturbation which is metaphysics, but that doesn't mean that it's equivalent to actual physics, nor does it provide any substantiated help to anyone suggesting existence of god (which is what this thread is supposed to be about).

Talk about mental masturbation ! You keep assigning premises to my post that I did not make. Or alluding to premises without a reference . I can not defend a premises I know not of, or did not make. What conclusions ? What premises are you referring to? Be clear, be specific, so we can possibly agree to disagree on these premises.

[Moontanman]

You think Buddhism is a corrupt religious system ? I guess the Dali Lama is a fraud also? :) Anyway this is for you Chicken Little. :sun:

 

 

http://http://www.damo-qigong.net/book/religion/taoteach.html

 

The very concept of religion and god is corrupt:evil: That's why the whole concept endures, it cannot be honest, to be honest would be to admit they really don't know if there is a god or gods or any metaphysical belief system.

[Thunderbird]

Quit with ad hominem attacks already. Jesus ****ing christ.

What ad hominem attacks ? my attacks or very specific and based on relevant information to the discussions at hand. I am trying to find out what your attacks to my premises are.

[Thunderbird]

The very concept of religion and god is corrupt:evil: That's why the whole concept endures, it cannot be honest, to be honest would be to admit they really don't know if there is a god or gods or any metaphysical belief system.

I really don't think my Buddhist buddy believes in God. He does believe in meditation as a scientific discipline however.

[freeztar]

I really don't think my Buddhist buddy believes in God. He does believe in meditation as a scientific discipline however.

 

How is meditation a scientific discipline?

[InfiniteNow]

Anecdote [math]\ne[/math] Evidence

[Thunderbird]

How is meditation a scientific discipline?

 

I don’t know for sure. I’m not a real Buddhist. But, when he explains it to me and how it works, it is described in scientific terms more than philosophic and defiantly not religious. I think it a discipline of the mind that is based on practices that had goals that produced results. The goal being to gain control over the mind. The masters where constantly experimenting on certain practices that could achieve certain goals theses practices where further honed from teacher to student over many generations.

[InfiniteNow]

I don’t know for sure.

 

This sounds exactly like what everyone has been telling you after each of your posts. Ah... the wonders of alignment. :shrug:

[Boerseun]

Wow - turn your back for 12 hours and see the chaos erupt at Hypo!

 

First of, meditation is not a scientific phenomenon, either. The Bhuddist idea of meditating by "clearing the mind" is also impossible. After all, how do you know you've got a clear mind when you've cleared your mind? The moment you realize "hey! I've cleared my mind!", KABOOM - you've spoiled the session, and your mind is not clear anymore. "Meditation", as understood by popular culture today, is a physical impossibility, although very useful for selling books on mysticism and loads of other related rubbish. Meditation is not. How's that for a koan?

 

Secondly, the Dalai Lama has followed in the Catholic Pope's glorious footsteps by using the massive religious weight of his office to catapult him into the political arena - a world in which he has lost absolutely nothing; but with the doors to political power wide open thanks to the position he holds in the Church, who can resist? The Dalai Lama is seen by the entire world minus China as the de facto ruler of Tibet - but nobody stops to ponder the fact that the office of the Dalai Lama held no political power whatsoever before the Chinese came to the fore. The Dalai Lama holds power he doesn't deserve, based on the universal reverence for people with high religious rank. How can the killing of women we suspect of being witches be wrong? The pope said we should do it, after all, and he's infallible... That's basically the same argument as saying that everything the Dalai Lama underwrites or endorse must be right, good and swell. The Dalai Lama is an idiot, like the rest of us. He's not some sort of magical know-it-all, and he's not the Master of Meditation - Meditation in the Bhuddist sense is crap; but the Bhuddists won't tell you that, because they can't acknowledge the fact that their emperor is naked, too.

 

Your Bhuddist friend, who took an oath of poverty, is a tiny cog in an enormously big machine. How do you think those big Bhuddist temples gets built? Many rich and famous people make enormous donations to the Bhuddist cause, because "hey, look - they live in poverty..."

 

Your friend is being abused as an advertising gimmick by those in power in the Bhuddist world, in order for them to live in the lap of luxury.

 

It's such a sickening scam. Bhuddists, Christians, Muslims, the whole lot of them. Can't we just light an enormously big cracker under every religious person's *** in the hope they'll wake up?

 

People invariably lose an argument when the opposing side somehow connects their arguments with Hitler. I mean, what do you say to that? Saying "You're arguing like Hitler" immediately sinks the opponent's argument, because the name Hitler carries such a negative payload that you can't crawl from under that allegation, however unjustified it might be. Someone actually described this effect and named it, but I'm damned if I can remember it.

 

...the same with the Pope or the Dalai Lama. Because of the Chinese occupation of Tibet, everybody sympathises with the Dalai Lama. This gives Bhuddism an even bigger stature amongst world religions. If anybody mentions anything the Dalai Lama said or did, everybody immediately views the Dalai Lama's actions in a favourable light - regardless. He gets the benefit of the doubt each and every time. He's simply human, and an equally big idiot than the rest of us. But he will always get the benefit of the doubt, because of the meme of his suffering doing the rounds. He's not suffering, and he's not the political ruler of Tibet. Goddammit. I'm working myself up here...

 

Because of that particular effect, Bhuddists the world over also get the benefit of the doubt. I kinda like them, to say the least; they're harmless and kinda cute. But sitting in a very uncomfortable position humming for hours at end, is just, well, plain bloody stupid.

 

...but nobody will say it. Because of the Dalai Lama effect. Well, I will. Here it comes:

 

The Dalai Lama and the Pope are both common mortals, idiots and assholes all. Maybe a bit more self-delusional than the rest of us, but that's details, right?