Does God exist?

[litespeed]

JM - You provided from Kaufman(?): "In my mind and heart, the overwhelming answer is that the truth as best we know it, that all arose with no Creator agent."

 

We don't know THAT anymore then we know why entagled particles stay synchronous at distance. I believe in cause and effect in this universe. To accept effect without cause stipulates magical, supernatural things in THIS universe. That sounds very much like religion to me. And I don't buy it.

[litespeed]

JM

 

I provide you the illusion of physical movement in this universe. Quantum mechanics describes the smallest distance is a Plack unit. Matter moves from one Plank unit to the next without being in existence during the movement. I believe that is as much an illusion as the appearance of continuous movement itself.

 

And I am not alone in this quandry. One simple solution is that matter migrates to another dimension then pops up in the next Plank unit just on time, and just as predicted. NO loss of cause and effect!

[JMJones0424]

Forgive me for providing a quote that may have been misleading. When referring to "creator agent", Kauffman is using "agent" as an entity that is capable of action. He is referring to the fact that the existence of the universe can be explained without the necessity of an entity capable of action first existing and "creating" the universe. And yet, through natural processes, agents that are capable of action have arisen.

 

Any further expounding on the origin of the universe is regrettably far beyond my level of coherent discourse.

[litespeed]

JM

 

I will also postulate how this extra dimension manages to move matter by one plank unit. Time. Time is the fourth dimension. Assume the extra dimension has no time. Time in our universe moves one plank unit, and up from the timeles holding tank pops one piece of matter. I have no mathematical or other arguement on this. Just a silly thought experiment.

[litespeed]

JM - You worte: " When referring to "creator agent", Kauffman is using "agent" as an entity that is capable of action. He is referring to the fact that the existence of the universe can be explained without the necessity of an entity capable of action."

 

"...the universe can be explained without the necessity of an entity capable of action." You are kidding me, right? Since when does SCIENCE accept effect without cause? To do so is simply to resign the scientific method and bow down to the magical, the UNKNOWN devine. Just call it something else, since we do not believe in Yawhe. Call it Quantum Mechanics PROBABILITY. But Never, Ever, whisper [it had a cause].

 

Simply stipulate entangled particles are synchronos at distance and it is simply a matter of the unexplained magical Standard Model devine. I might believe in The Devine, but I do not believe it is in anyway unexplainable or magical.

[JMJones0424]

I in no way implied effect without cause. You are repeatedly inferring things from my statements that I did not intend. Perhaps this is a failure on my part to express what I am thinking. As I stated, I am not qualified to talk about the origin of the universe. Hopefully, someone else will recognize that I have opened a can of worms that I can not deal with, and step in to give a brief explanation.

[Michael Mooney]

Hi folks,

Looks like I'll be leaving Hypography, as I'm blacklisted by the moderators in the "philosophy of science" section, but before I go I would like to comment on the OP question here.

 

If the universe is one intelligent Being, then we can call that Being "God." If it is just a mechanistic, materialistic cosmos, then there is no god.

 

As a mystic, I have experienced the cosmos ("Kosmos") as One Intelligent Being since my first memory of transcending personal consciousness and becoming "one with the Kosmos" at age five. It continues to this day, now 63 yrs old.

 

So I will go with "yes" on the question. God's body is the cosmos (known and beyond our "cosmic event horizon"), and God's consciousness is omnipresent, not just transcending It's body but manifesting/creating it perpetually and eternally. God's "outbreath" is the "Bang" and the "inbreath" is the "Crunch"... perpetually, eternally cycling... with no "beginning" or "ending"... which are both products of linear thinking, which can not comprehend eternity, infinity, or the perpetual process of re-birthing and again collapsing into the ball of primordial matter/energy for yet another "bang."

 

Thanks for "listening."

Michael

[freeztar]

Hi folks,

Looks like I'll be leaving Hypography, as I'm blacklisted by the moderators in the "philosophy of science" section

 

Blacklisted?

 

You are mistaken. As a moderator, I can say this as fact.

 

Some of us are sometimes concerned by your posts, but we have not "blacklisted" you.

Your continual claims that we have done so are cause for concern though. Why do you feel this way?

 

Moderation note: subsuquent discussion regarding the philosophy of spacetime and moderation rules moved to What is "spacetime" really?

[Pyrotex]

...You are kidding me, right? Since when does SCIENCE accept effect without cause? To do so is simply to resign the scientific method ....

litespeed,

you are in no position to define how science works or what its limits are. Your understanding and training is not up to the task. Simmer down and be patient with the other posters. All will be explained in its own time.

 

Pyro / Moderator / Online Daycare Administrator / Resident Scientist / Rhetoric Warrior

[C1ay]

Getting back to the original topic, does God exist. I think this question obviously depends on a coherent definition of what God is or the whole discussion is meaningless. Definition anyone?

 

Is there a consensus on a coherent definition yet?

[Moontanman]

God: A nonexistent mythological being or beings that are supposedly responsible for various aspects of the natural world. Belief in this being or beings has wained as science has explained most aspects of the natural world. In modern times most ideas about God or Gods generally concentrate on aspects of of the natural world that cannot be be explained as yet. As these things are explained belief in God becomes more of a supernatural guardian of the after life rather than the driving force behind natural processes.

[InfiniteNow]

YouTube - What If God Disappeared? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkCuc34hvD4

[JMJones0424]

Granted it's not "falsifiable evidence" but I think the speaker in the previous post has a point when he says

I'd likely go on a blood thirsty rampage of killing and cannibalism because the fear of disobeying god is presently the only thing preventing me from doing that

 

Anyone who knows me knows that I am only a step away from devouring all of humanity. I prefer the cheek, as everyone knows this is the most delicious part of an animal. I leave the rest of the offal to you heathens, if I don't eat you first.

[Pyrotex]

Hmmm, something is wrong here.

I gave up god 35 years ago, and I got BETTER behaved and MORE law-abiding.

[Moontanman]

If the fear of gods retribution is all that keeps you from going berserk then maybe we ought to lock you up now. You are obviously nuts, and just a time bomb waiting to go off. That sort of behavior is classic sociopath! Eventually anyone who really thinks like that will drop off the deep end fear of God or not!

[pamela]

Quote:

Originally Posted by C1ay

Getting back to the original topic, does God exist. I think this question obviously depends on a coherent definition of what God is or the whole discussion is meaningless. Definition anyone?

 

Is there a consensus on a coherent definition yet?

let's define god

compliments of dictionary.com

1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam.

3. (lowercase) one of several deities, esp. a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.

4. (often lowercase) a supreme being according to some particular conception: the god of mercy.

5. Christian Science. the Supreme Being, understood as Life, Truth, Love, Mind, Soul, Spirit, Principle.

6. (lowercase) an image of a deity; an idol.

7. (lowercase) any deified person or object.

exist

1. to have actual being; be:

2. to have life or animation; live.

3. to continue to be or live

4. to have being in a specified place or under certain conditions; be found; occur

5. to achieve the basic needs of existence, as food and shelter

perception

1. the act or faculty of apprehending by means of the senses or of the mind; cognition; understanding.

2. immediate or intuitive recognition or appreciation, as of moral, psychological, or aesthetic qualities; insight; intuition; discernment:

3. the result or product of perceiving, as distinguished from the act of perceiving; percept.

4. Psychology. a single unified awareness derived from sensory processes while a stimulus is present.

 

As there is no imperical evidence in support of an actual deity, then we must look at what has become real or viable to the individual. Perception for the believer lies within the mind and not the external observation.The "knowing" is derived from the belief and not factual knowledge. This knowing has formed a pseudo-reality, in which they move throughout their lives. The god, and it's existance has become a reality in the cognitive mind of the individual that believes.Therefore, to them, god exists. For others, who do not subscribe to this cognitive reality, god does not exist

[Pyrotex]

"Reality is that which refuses to go away after you stop believing in it."

Phillip K. Dick