Down Memory Lane...

[Boerseun]

Ron's Mental Fatigue thread got me thinking:

 

How are memories stored?

 

And I don't mean 'patterns' and all that, I mean physically, at the cell level. Does anybody know? I for sure don't. I've read a host of conflicting views on the matter, but I can't for the life of me imagine how a brain cell can be 'switched' between n-states in order to store a memory, or a part (bit/byte) of a memory. I've hear some talk on them acting as liquid crystals, where the polarity of the cell fluid is changed when sense input forms a memory. Memories are then enforced through repetition, where the liquid crystal fluid is repeatedly charged - like when you repeat a mnemonic to remember something. That sounds kinda 'out there', but how in heck do you change a cell's physical state in order to store a memory?

 

I have no idea at all.

 

I find it mighty interesting, though...

 

Thoughts? (no pun intended...)

[InfiniteNow]

Really quick, it's not cellular. Memories are essentially new thoughts formed using old structure. The "structure" part is done via dendritic connections. The more neurons to which a single neuron is connected, the more often that memory/thought/pathway will be active. Whenever it's activated, it reinforces the existing connection and generates more.

 

A bit analogous to erosion. Water falls, a channel forms. Then, when water falls again it flows through that channel. Then, the channel gets deeper and wider, and the water nearly always flows into and through it.

 

After that, you've got me??? :thumbs_up

[Queso]

Memory is probably holographic for all we know.

[InfiniteNow]

Memory is probably holographic for all we know.

 

Meaning?

[Boerseun]

Sorry for being a complete dunce about it, but if a memory is simply caused by a pathway that's continuously reinforced like in your 'erosion' analogy, where then in the pathway's route is the memory perceived?

 

Say, for instance, you have a jumble of wires. You plug in current on the one end, and measure it on the other. Regardless of which possible path the electron flow might take, if you plug in 10V one side, and there's a connection (which can take one of millions of routes through the jumble between the start and end points), you'll get 10V out the other side. For a 'memory' to be 'perceived', there should be some sort of change to the current? Or am I being too literal about this?

 

I'm accepting the fact that I'm completely ignorant about this, but I simply don't get it.

 

Boerseun = Brain Architecture Dunce.

[InfiniteNow]

It's more like you're sitting at the edge of the pool, and someone drops a rock in the center of the pool. As the waves trickle outward, you are trying to discern information about the rock by interpreting the wave crests which have reached you... It's not a wire and a signal by any stretch.

 

if a memory is simply caused by a pathway that's continuously reinforced like in your 'erosion' analogy, where then in the pathway's route is the memory perceived?

That's a bit more difficult. It's the aggregate of influence across all brain regions that matter.

 

It might help if I asked, about what type of memory are you enquiring?

 

MedlinePlus: Memory

 

Here's a neat .pdf on the issue (see the teens and 20s...)

http://www.anat.ucl.ac.uk/uclonly/courses/anatb009/b92006anatomyofhumanmemory%20.pdf

 

See also:

Human memory formation is accompanied by rhinal−hippocampal coupling and decoupling - Nature Neuroscience

 

 

[Boerseun]

I'm talking about memories in general - say, if I recollect what I did on my last holiday, or something to that effect.

 

I think I understand what you're trying to say with what constitutes memory as the specific wave pattern. Would it then be able to duplicate it electrically? Because then the fundamental 'perceivers' of memory would be 'wave analyzers', for want of a better term.

 

Curious...

[Monomer]

Maybe this will be of some help...

 

Proteins anchor memories in our brain

[Jay-qu]

I think what you are getting to confused about is that the 'seat of conciousness' is actually accessing these memories. Your mind is a very odd and not very well understood thing.. it is still under dispute if your mind runs like an algorithm or not.. I would like to think that there is something more mysterious about our mind, but im still undecided :/

[ronthepon]

That part about the erosion marks by InfiniteNow is a pretty cool analogy. Assuming that the brain's all there is to conciousness, we can confidently say that all memory is eventually physical. That'll mean that we can learn to read the brain patterns for a direct interpretation, memory wise.

 

For the most, if such a system would come to exist, I'd suspect that it would involveplenty of guesswork as well.

That's based on the fact that we tend to use mental 'tags' and things like that to remember things.

 

Heck, any way, if you're really interested in doing some light reading, then don't forget to read this one. Lovely read.

[Monomer]

That was an interesting read, ronthepon.

 

Boerseun asked earlier "where then in the pathway's route is the memory perceived?", and I'm curious about that too. The article ronthepon linked to stated that someone's name is represented in many neural circuits, but where along the line does this physical process lead to us remembering our name?

[InfiniteNow]

That's the 64,000 dollar question. I think it's everywhere, but I'd love to see some data one way or the other.