Terra Preta Recipes and Results

[RBlack]

To All,

 

I thought we might need a thread on how we use Terra Preta and results.

 

I took the liberty to put on a couple from other sources.

 

Mine: I have solid clay - no SOM soil that I am amending. I have made charcoal from pine and biochar from kitchen wastes, pine needles (to lower soil ph- wild idea of mine), and mule manure. About 50% charcoal, 10% kitchen wastes, and 20% both pine needles and manure. I am composting it with regular compost material; kitchen scraps, dead leaves, grass clippings and a fair amount of Bone Meal, about 5 times recommendation for my size of garden (this replaces the fish “residue”, bones, and turtle shells that the Amazonians had in their mix). I don’t have the time to compost this correctly because I got a late start but it will have about 6 weeks before I till it into the clay on April 9 – 11. I will let this sit in the soil until I plant on May 12. This is a VERY experimental mix for my particular soil. I will plant shade tolerate garden crops of which I am still trying to figure out what. Right now absolutely nothing grows there and hasn’t for two years. After all the snow melted it has grown a green slime across the top but I don’t consider this a “crop”. I am very interested to see what weeds I get between April and May as this will show if I have a fertile soil or not.

 

This was from Make do:

We're using a typical 55 gal drum charcoal maker to produce so far hardwood and softwood charcoal, and plan to try these other sources over 2007; One or more sources may prove to provide biochar suited to northern new England. To date we've been growing wheat and chia as test species, in trays of 75% vermiculite, 25% hardwood charcoal, The controls with no charcoal; both with rainwater and sea solids. Wheat roots grew approximately 50% faster in the biochar-mixed ones than the control ones, The Brix (refractive index, or nutrient density) was about 40% higher in the stems of the charcoaled wheat, but around 50% lower in the roots than the control wheat. Interesting potential for wheat-farming.

 

This was from Janice Thies posted on the original thread:

Lastly, from my personal gardening experiences, I use spent charcoal from the filters of the 14 aquaria I maintain for my viewing pleasure. I combine it as about 5% of my mix with 65% peat moss, 10% vermicompost (from my worm bin in my basement where I compost all my household kitchen waste - aged and stabilized, not fresh!), 5-10% leaf mulch (composted on my leafy property in NY), 5-7% perlite to increase drainage, decrease bulk density and improve water retention and percolation, and some bone meal and blood meal (to taste :-) ). This makes an excellent potting mix for my indoor 'forest'. I am very much still playing around with this.

 

Thought I would start with these 3 although I know there were many more from the original thread.

 

RB

[Michaelangelica]

So here are some haphazard observations

 

!. My 2 year old parsley has been eaten by me, and eaten down to the nub by the bloody possum.

They are shooting again and I look like getting another crop.

This from a plant, that at best, is a biannual.

They were one of my first "experiments" I actually left one without char and two with "x" amount of car and 2 with "y" amount of char.

Of course I have forgotten which is which now.

 

2.Trying to save my half dead Hibscus near the pool with char and organic matter failed.

I think the problem is the soil around the pool contains salt

 

3.TP Pots seem easier to re-wet when they dry out.

This is a problem with nurseymen who often use automatically timed watering systems.

If a field of pots is not watered, and drys out, re-wetting can be a problem. just watering again does not cut it. A sort of 'meniscus' forms on top of the pot and the water runs down the inside of the pot and out the drainage holes at the bottom.

I am using a bit of grey water (only in some pots)so that adds another variable to the mix (soap)

 

4 The initial impact of putting too much char on acid loving plants can be a problem. So far lost 3 gardenias and 1 Aquilegia.

The aquiligias were interesting.

I had/have some beautiful looking aquilegias that don't seem to want to flower.. I put about 20-30g of rice hull char on each pot. they immediatly all slumped down and looked as if they were about to die. One did Within a few weeks the others all bounced back looking better than they did before. (which was very good). Still haven't flowered. I am about to speak to them sternly.

 

5. I think I am using too much char.

The Japanese research paper on Tea Trees used only 100g per tree, per square meter, per year.

After 4 years they have 30-40%? more growth.

They plan to carry on the experiment for 10 years.

So that will be worth watching and waiting for.

 

6 I grew a 2 metre fig tree, from a small cutting, with two figs, in 12 months, in a ground up BBQ char, home made, potting mix.

I am very proud of it

1& 1/2 figs for the bloody possum 1/2 fig for me.

[RBlack]

To all,

 

My solid clay no SOM soil garden is going well. According to recent posts I probably put in too much charcoal but may move or spread the soil out after this growing season.

 

At 5 weeks I have a lot of growth from seeds and all transplanted vegetables are doing well. What is most evident is the amount of worms, slugs, and grubs that I find now comparded to 9 weeks ago when I started. Then I had none and now many.

 

This has to be a result from the charcoal/manure-biochar mix I put in as the soil had been sitting there for two years and no biological activity until my Terra Preta efforts. No sign of microbial fungus yet but maybe this may take time or my eyes are to old to see overt signs of it.

 

Randy Black

[freeztar]

4 The initial impact of putting too much char on acid loving plants can be a problem. So far lost 3 gardenias and 1 Aquilegia.

The aquiligias were interesting.

I had/have some beautiful looking aquilegias that don't seem to want to flower.. I put about 20-30g of rice hull char on each pot. they immediatly all slumped down and looked as if they were about to die. One did Within a few weeks the others all bounced back looking better than they did before. (which was very good). Still haven't flowered. I am about to speak to them sternly.

 

I bet that's what is happening to my indoor spider plant. It was ironic that when I really started caring for it better, it started to die. I'll have to measure the pH to see what is going on. I find it surprising though that a half-handful of char via surface application could create such a dramatic, and quick, change in the pH.

[Moontanman]

So here are some haphazard observations

 

!. My 2 year old parsley has been eaten by me, and eaten down to the nub by the bloody possum.

They are shooting again and I look like getting another crop.

This from a plant, that at best, is a biannual.

They were one of my first "experiments" I actually left one without char and two with "x" amount of car and 2 with "y" amount of char.

Of course I have forgotten which is which now.

 

2.Trying to save my half dead Hibscus near the pool with char and organic matter failed.

I think the problem is the soil around the pool contains salt

 

3.TP Pots seem easier to re-wet when they dry out.

This is a problem with nurseymen who often use automatically timed watering systems.

If a field of pots is not watered, and drys out, re-wetting can be a problem. just watering again does not cut it. A sort of 'meniscus' forms on top of the pot and the water runs down the inside of the pot and out the drainage holes at the bottom.

I am using a bit of grey water (only in some pots)so that adds another variable to the mix (soap)

 

4 The initial impact of putting too much char on acid loving plants can be a problem. So far lost 3 gardenias and 1 Aquilegia.

The aquiligias were interesting.

I had/have some beautiful looking aquilegias that don't seem to want to flower.. I put about 20-30g of rice hull char on each pot. they immediatly all slumped down and looked as if they were about to die. One did Within a few weeks the others all bounced back looking better than they did before. (which was very good). Still haven't flowered. I am about to speak to them sternly.

 

5. I think I am using too much char.

The Japanese research paper on Tea Trees used only 100g per tree, per square meter, per year.

After 4 years they have 30-40%? more growth.

They plan to carry on the experiment for 10 years.

So that will be worth watching and waiting for.

 

6 I grew a 2 metre fig tree, from a small cutting, with two figs, in 12 months, in a ground up BBQ char, home made, potting mix.

I am very proud of it

1& 1/2 figs for the bloody possum 1/2 fig for me.

 

I grow mostly aquarium plants these days and swamp trees. I have been trying to some up with a soil mix that is workable for aquarium plants. While I have been keeping aquariums of all types for more than 40 years lately I have been concentrating on lush planted tanks. I have found over the years that most aquarium plants do best in fine sand or silt. Of source silt is less than ideal for an aquarium because the fish keep it stirred up much of the time. Most freshwater fish show their best colors on dark substrate but black sand isn't very easy to find out side of volcanic islands so most of the time I have to use regular quartz sand of the type found in sand boxes or building sand. What I have been concentrating on is the soil I put under the sand. I have read about the terra preta and it sounds like a great soil for most plants. making something similar is of course the problem. to get to the point I grow a water fern called Azzola carolinias. I will grow in a thick mat across the top of any standing water even to the point of stopping mosquitos from laying their eggs in the water. the great thing about this fern is that it carries bacteria that fix nitrogen out of the air. this fern can be used to make some really rich fine grained compost and in the process leave the water it grows on much more pure than it was to begin with. I use compost made from this fern at a rate of about 50% with about 10% ground charcoal. I use a lot of charcoal from aquariums filters because it contains lots of organics removed from aquarium water. I mix volcanic rock of the type used in grills and as ground cover ground to a fine dust and earth worm castings. I use this mixture as a starting point for various potting soil mixtures. but I use it 100% under a layer of sand in an aquarium. About an inch of the compost with about 4 inches of sand on top of that makes a great substrate for water plants and swamp trees. If you want the fine details send me a personal message and I'll be happy to tell all you want to know about the aquarium part. I have even found a source of fine black sand for use in aquariums. If you keep fish you might want to give some thought to using silt from your aquariums in the compost process as well. If you have ever cleaned out aquarium gravel, especially gravel used over an under gravel filter you have seen all the silt that is collected by the gravel. all of this is rich in nitrogen and other organics. you can store this water in the dark for a few days and most of the silt will settle out and the water can be drained off. this silt which is basically composted fish dung will grow plants like crazy. I'm not sure if any of this helps to recreate terra preta but the Azolla is a great way to fix nitrogen without the problems of bacteria associated with manure from large animals.

 

Michael

[freeztar]

What a great post Michael!

 

I must make some small corrections though: Azolla caroliniana

 

It is also known as Carolina Mosquitofern and is considered an invasive in parts of the tropics (inversely considered 'Exploitably Vulnerable' in NY state). And according to the second link below, it is blue-green algae causing the nitrogen fixing.

 

PLANTS Profile for Azolla caroliniana (Carolina mosquitofern) | USDA PLANTS

Tropica

[Moontanman]

What a great post Michael!

 

I must make some small corrections though: Azolla caroliniana

 

It is also known as Carolina Mosquitofern and is considered an invasive in parts of the tropics (inversely considered 'Exploitably Vulnerable' in NY state). And according to the second link below, it is blue-green algae causing the nitrogen fixing.

 

PLANTS Profile for Azolla caroliniana (Carolina mosquitofern) | USDA PLANTS

Tropica

 

I didn't know it was considered invasive anywhere, I know some plants that are similar in appearence are invasive. many fish love to eat it so it doesn't always grow well in water that is occupied by vegetarian fishes. I provide lots of it to koi carp and gold fish ponds so the fish can eat it as a treat.

 

The blue-green algae are indeed bacteria. they are now considered cyanobacteria the cyanobacteria that fix nitrogen in (Azolla) is a microscopic filamentous blue-green alga or cyanobacterium (Anabaena azollae).

 

Here in SENC Azolla grows everywhere and can be culivated in vats or any container of water sitting the sun. In direct sun it often turns red but continues to grow like crazy. I harvest it on a regular basis and use it as compost and place of spagnum moss for growing orchids and other ferns. It also looks good used as a ground cover in bonsia trees. As long as it is kept damp it will grow as ground cover and it looks like a real scaled down moss or ferns in bonsia pots.

 

I also use it to purify the water in my aquariums i set up with out filters. I harvest the Azolla every few days off top of the water and it keeps the nutrient levels down.

 

Michael

Life is the poetry of the universe

Love is the poetry of life

[freeztar]

I didn't know it was considered invasive anywhere, I know some plants that are similar in appearence are invasive. many fish love to eat it so it doesn't always grow well in water that is occupied by vegetarian fishes. I provide lots of it to koi carp and gold fish ponds so the fish can eat it as a treat.

 

Another invasive that people love to put in their aquarium (and subsequently dump into a pond where it grows unchecked :omg:) is parrot feather, which I'm sure you're familiar with.

The blue-green algae are indeed bacteria. they are now considered cyanobacteria the cyanobacteria that fix nitrogen in (Azolla) is a microscopic filamentous blue-green alga or cyanobacterium (Anabaena azollae).

 

Thanks for that. Learn something new everyday.

 

It also looks good used as a ground cover in bonsia trees. As long as it is kept damp it will grow as ground cover and it looks like a real scaled down moss or ferns in bonsia pots.

 

Got any pics?

 

I also use it to purify the water in my aquariums i set up with out filters. I harvest the Azolla every few days off top of the water and it keeps the nutrient levels down.

 

I wonder which is more effective at cleaning the water, Azolla or charcoal?

[Moontanman]

Another invasive that people love to put in their aquarium (and subsequently dump into a pond where it grows unchecked :omg:) is parrot feather, which I'm sure you're familiar with.

 

 

Thanks for that. Learn something new everyday.

 

 

 

Got any pics?

 

 

 

I wonder which is more effective at cleaning the water, Azolla or charcoal?

 

Parrots feather or at least a plant we call parrots feather is native to my area. Beautiful plant, I don't have any pics, when i first started out on computers I had a scanner but my computer was too small to keep very many photos but now i could keep them by the thousands but my scanner doesn't work and i don't have a digital camera. I can't afford one either for that matter. My next cell phone will have a camera so when i get it I'll be able to take some photos of all the neet stuff I have around here. i am eager for everyone to see my swamp trees grwoing in my aquariums. Bald cypress, water tupelo, swamp apple, and mangrove trees make wonder bonsia like displays in aquariums. Oh well, could have, would have.

 

Michael

[freeztar]

Parrots feather or at least a plant we call parrots feather is native to my area. Beautiful plant, I don't have any pics, when i first started out on computers I had a scanner but my computer was too small to keep very many photos but now i could keep them by the thousands but my scanner doesn't work and i don't have a digital camera. I can't afford one either for that matter. My next cell phone will have a camera so when i get it I'll be able to take some photos of all the neet stuff I have around here. i am eager for everyone to see my swamp trees grwoing in my aquariums. Bald cypress, water tupelo, swamp apple, and mangrove trees make wonder bonsia like displays in aquariums. Oh well, could have, would have.

 

Michael

 

If we are talking about the same thing, then it is not native and most certainly invasive.

I would love to see your bonsai swamp trees! :omg:

As an ecologist here in Georgia, I enounter bald cypress and swamp tupelo all the time, but of course they're not bonsais.

 

So, to bring this *wonderful thread* back on-topic, how did you come to the 10% charcoal in the soil mixture? Was it experimentation, or just a guess that worked, or you read it somewhere?

[Moontanman]

If we are talking about the same thing, then it is not native and most certainly invasive.

I would love to see your bonsai swamp trees! :omg:

As an ecologist here in Georgia, I enounter bald cypress and swamp tupelo all the time, but of course they're not bonsais.

 

So, to bring this *wonderful thread* back on-topic, how did you come to the 10% charcoal in the soil mixture? Was it experimentation, or just a guess that worked, or you read it somewhere?

 

10% just happened to be the amount of charcoal i had when i fiorst started making this stuff so I kept with it. I seldom have much of it so to add more i would have to use either new charcoal or grill type charcoal. I have been thinking of add charcoal grill ash but not to the aquarium soil. Swamp trees are really great in aquaria. They make a very natural looking display. The roots eventually grow into a mat like structure that many fish like to spawn on. My main goal in the aquarium soil is to make a soil that doesn't loose it's ability to grow plants too quickly but then again doesn't pollute the water. It's a fine line between nutrient content and nutrient release.

 

Michael

[Gerrit]

I'm getting a ton of char from a local pyrolysis plant to put on my garden.

 

How much char should I put on a heavy clay soil? Is 10% by volume too much? The bulk density of char is only 250kg./cubic meter. I forget the bulk denisty of soil, but it is probably 5 or 6 times that much.

 

Gerrit

[InfiniteNow]

I'm getting a ton of char from a local pyrolysis plant to put on my garden.

 

How much char should I put on a heavy clay soil? Is 10% by volume too much? The bulk density of char is only 250kg./cubic meter. I forget the bulk denisty of soil, but it is probably 5 or 6 times that much.

 

Gerrit,

 

You might check here, particularly, Phillip's posts. I'm not sure if it addresses your question or not, but it's a good place to start. :phones:

 

http://hypography.com/forums/terra-preta/11582-please-simplify-how-much-carbon-how.html

[malcolmf]

I'm worried by the results that include dead or damaged plants after charcoal application. Enough of these reports in the hands of the less favourably inclined could kill terra preta nova stone dead.

 

Posters have shrugged them off with a "must have been because ...". I think a more scientific approach to finding out why it happened or what prevents it is needed.

 

Hypothesis: an addition of pure char to soil initially sucks up moisture and nutrients, making them unavailable to plants. (Don't forget: the Amazonians didn't use anything remotely like this method).

 

Possible experiments:

 

1. Drench half the char with water before application, half untreated. The water half should not then take up large amounts of dissolved nutrients from the soil.
   
2. Drench half the char in liquid fertiliser (organic or not) before application, half untreated. Don't apply any of the leftover liquid, so that the effect is limited to what the char absorbed.
   
3. Plots or pots of identical soil with char additions varying.
   

 

Given the long tradition in Japan of char soil amendment, perhaps there are papers from it on precise soil management regimes? What did the Japanese speakers say at Terrigal?

 

M

[freeztar]

I'm worried by the results that include dead or damaged plants after charcoal application. Enough of these reports in the hands of the less favourably inclined could kill terra preta nova stone dead.

 

Posters have shrugged them off with a "must have been because ...". I think a more scientific approach to finding out why it happened or what prevents it is needed.

 

Hypothesis: an addition of pure char to soil initially sucks up moisture and nutrients, making them unavailable to plants. (Don't forget: the Amazonians didn't use anything remotely like this method).

 

Possible experiments:

 

1. Drench half the char with water before application, half untreated. The water half should not then take up large amounts of dissolved nutrients from the soil.
   
2. Drench half the char in liquid fertiliser (organic or not) before application, half untreated. Don't apply any of the leftover liquid, so that the effect is limited to what the char absorbed.
   
3. Plots or pots of identical soil with char additions varying.
   

 

Given the long tradition in Japan of char soil amendment, perhaps there are papers from it on precise soil management regimes? What did the Japanese speakers say at Terrigal?

 

M

 

Those are some valid points, but let's not forget about pH. I would imagine that pH is much quicker acting on the plants than nutrient or water adsorbtion.

[malcolmf]

I would imagine that pH is much quicker acting on the plants than nutrient or water adsorbtion.

A fine imagination, but charcoal sucks in water, including its dissolved nutrients, like a vacuum cleaner. What happens when your houseplants dry out?

This may be a reason why today's Amerindians mulch on top of charred material.

[freeztar]

A fine imagination, but charcoal sucks in water, including its dissolved nutrients, like a vacuum cleaner. What happens when your houseplants dry out?

This may be a reason why today's Amerindians mulch on top of charred material.

 

Ok, imagination aside, what happens when you dump a bit of acid on your soil?

I'll answer for you.

The soil becomes more acidic.

What then happens to basic-loving plants?

I'll leave that one to the imagination...

 

All I am saying is that other factors are involved and we should take them all into account. The charcoal "sucking in water like a vacuum cleaner" is acting as a storage center for said water and nutrients. The plants are able to cling their roots to the char and extract these nutrients and the water with the help of wee beasties. The pH however is not so easily surmounted.

 

The reason I said "I imagine" is because I do not have any experimental data to back my claim. However, my pH soil probe is in the mail and I'll be doing some experiments on my own shortly. Cheers.