Honey Bees Disappearing!

[EStein]

You haven't answered, or addressed, my question.

 

What question?

[Moontanman]

Very relevant to the anti spray folks...then again, you're probably too young to remember the banning of DDT.

 

Don't assume you are the only old fart here, DDT is a bad thing, it persists for too long in the environment. There is no excuse for using a poison that almost never goes away. It may or may not be a short term heath hazard but it does build up in the food chain. Just that one fact is enough for me to be wary of it.

[Michaelangelica]

Very relevant to the anti spray folks...then again, you're probably too young to remember the banning of DDT.

DDT is only banned in the west. Most of the world still uses it. it is produced in china, India and used extensively (carefully) in Africa.

DDT is probably the safest of all the chlorinated hydrocarbons. Toxophene, last I looked, the worst; and unable to be detected/monitored in the environment as it is such a Witch's Brew of CHs.

 

As for bees, look to indiscriminate broad-scale spraying with organo-phosphates. Hitler invented it to kill the jews and many consider it worse than CHs.

Also synthetic pyretrins are deadly to bees.

We don't know enough about their long term effects on the environment yet.

 

Spraying by air is such a shotgun approach to pest control. We can all do better than that.

 

The question was 'what part of my post did you find "silly" and why'.

[EStein]

The question was 'what part of my post did you find "silly" and why'.

 

Ok...yes. You said "An expensive price to pay for Florida tourists too cheap to buy some DEET".....DEET doesn't work for everyone and the mosquitos couldnt care less about it. Mosquitos carry killer diseases and I don't see anyone dying from the insecticides we've been using for years. If certain ones are too toxic for humans, there are laws prohibiting or limiting their use.

As far as bees disappearing, I highly doubt they are dying out from bug spray. A lot of the disappearing bee stories are anecdotal and honey is not scarce, at least in my local stores. The disappearing bee thing is funny to me. Like with the global warming and the CFC-caused ozone hole hoaxes, sometimes you just have to laugh at folks gullibility!!:)

[InfiniteNow]

As far as bees disappearing, I highly doubt they are dying out from bug spray. A lot of the disappearing bee stories are anecdotal and honey is not scarce, at least in my local stores. The disappearing bee thing is funny to me. Like with the global warming and the CFC-caused ozone hole hoaxes, sometimes you just have to laugh at folks gullibility!!:)

 

You do realize that bees are responsible for FAR more than just production of honey, right? Basically, we'd be almost completely unable to feed ourselves if the bees keep dying, since they pollinate our crops. It's pretty elementary, actually. No bees, pollination is impacted tremendously, less food in the face of increasing population. I think there may just be something to the concern over bees dying en masse, but that's just me... being "gullible."

 

Also, there has been a connection determined between the effects of Bayer insecticide GAUCHO and the colony collapse disorder. (recall, also, that other insecticides have similar methods of action). Basically, the nervous system of the bee is impacted, they get disoriented, and fail to return to the hive. That, when coupled with the high stress environment of bee transportatation from state to state and farm to farm like pollination whores means we need to change SOMETHING to keep this from getting worse.

 

But, yeah... there's still honey on the shelf at the local Piggly Wiggly. :)

 

 

Colony Collapse Disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apiservices - Imkerei - Gaucho – ein Risiko - Studie: Mitschuld des Bayer-Pestizids für Bienensterben

 

 

CBG - KEYCODE BAYER #104

 

The use of GAUCHO on sunflowers was forbidden in France four years ago because of the high risk to bees. After this bee-deaths did not decrease noticeably – beekeepers are blaming this on the extensive use of agricultural toxins in maize cultivation. The concluding-report of the CST backs up this theory: ”Concerning the treatment of maize-seeds by GAUCHO, the results are as alarming as with sunflowers. The consumption of contaminated pollen can lead to an increased mortality of care-taking-bees, which can explain the persisting bee-deaths even after the ban of the treatment on sunflowers”.

 

The pesticide GAUCHO (containing the active substance Imidacloprid) is produced by the German BAYER-group. With an annual turnover of more than 500 millions Euros this is the group´s top selling agricultural agent. Critics assume that the high sales figures are the reason why the company is contesting a ban on its use.

 

 

 

60 Minutes - What's Wrong with the Bees (Video)

 

 

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[EStein]

The consumption of contaminated pollen can lead to an increased mortality of care-taking-bees, which can explain the persisting bee-deaths even after the ban of the treatment on sunflowers.

Proper tests were done on imidacloprid. It was not the problem. People can play the blame game or find the real answers to their problems. The blame game is, by far, easier.

 

Imidacloprid Effects On Bee Population

Imidacloprid effects on bee population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[freeztar]

I'm not sure EStein. That wiki mentions that Bayer (the company that sells the chemical) did the initial research.

 

Nonetheless, pesticides can affect bees.

 

Pesticide toxicity to bees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Cedars]

There are thousands of pollenating insects. With all the hype surrounding CCD, I have yet to see any evidence of reduced pollenation or reduced crops that is not connected to other environmental factors, especially drought.

 

When I roam around my yard I see a few honeybees and theres a beekeeper with hives almost a mile from me. My flowers have no trouble being pollenated via bee flys, bumble bees, beetles, butterflies and others.

 

When I roam crex meadows for every one honey bee I see, I see at least 20 other pollenators hard at work.

 

You cannot judge the presence or lack of honeybees in an area as an indicator of pollenator health. Theres just too many unknowns. Such as, did the local honeykeeper go out of business, move all his hives to another place, did the escapee's grow out of their home and swarm, etc.

 

I have been waiting for this springs round of OMG the bees are dying as keepers report their losses. I am surprised there hasnt been a robust round 2 of CCD, were this to be an actual bee emergency.

 

First 3 pics are three different pollenators on the same plant. 4th pic is a pollenator within 6 feet of the plant. There were at least 50 of #4 gathering minerals off the ground.

[EStein]

There are thousands of pollenating insects. With all the hype surrounding CCD, I have yet to see any evidence of reduced pollenation or reduced crops that is not connected to other environmental factors, especially drought.

 

When I roam around my yard I see a few honeybees and theres a beekeeper with hives almost a mile from me. My flowers have no trouble being pollenated via bee flys, bumble bees, beetles, butterflies and others.

 

When I roam crex meadows for every one honey bee I see, I see at least 20 other pollenators hard at work.

 

You cannot judge the presence or lack of honeybees in an area as an indicator of pollenator health. Theres just too many unknowns. Such as, did the local honeykeeper go out of business, move all his hives to another place, did the escapee's grow out of their home and swarm, etc.

 

I have been waiting for this springs round of OMG the bees are dying as keepers report their losses. I am surprised there hasnt been a robust round 2 of CCD, were this to be an actual bee emergency.

 

First 3 pics are three different pollenators on the same plant. 4th pic is a pollenator within 6 feet of the plant. There were at least 50 of #4 gathering minerals off the ground.

 

Amen! I suggest to those who read or view any kind of alarming "science" report in the media, view it with a jaundice eye. These reporters majored in journalism, supposedly, not science. Most scientists are critical thinkers, when it comes to science; journalists don't even know the right questions to ask.

[InfiniteNow]

Dismissal of claims due to alarmism aside, for the moment...

 

Bees ARE dying off.

Why?

[Cedars]

So shortly after I made my post, an article appeared on MSNBC:

Survey: U.S. honey bee deaths on rise - Environment - MSNBC.com

 

The survey included 327 operators who account for 19 percent of the country's approximately 2.44 million commercially managed bee hives.

 

36.1 percent of the nation's commercially managed hives lost since last year.

 

What this does not tell you is how many respondents or how many ignored the request.

 

A different article indicates large commerical operators are getting out of the business faster than CCD is affecting hives:

 

According to Troy Fore, executive director of the American Beekeeping Federation (ABF), the number of keepers who produce more than 6,000 pounds of honey annually has declined from 2,054 in 2005, the year before keepers started experiencing colony collapse, to 1,820 last year. Fore said ABF membership this year is down to about 1,100.

 

U.S. losing bees and beekeepers - USATODAY.com

 

Previously I read articles indicating 10-30% losses are expected over the winter from most beekeepers.

 

Another aspect I have not looked into is hinted at in the final sentence of the last link. I know breeding programs occur with beekeeping which is how we got the african bees released into s. america (as they tried to hybridize them with italian bees).

[Moontanman]

Wile I cannot say for sure about domestic bees, wild bees have all but disappeared. It has been at least a decade since I've even seen a wild bee tree. Used to be every where. Lots of hollow trees around me but no bees at all. I have seen years that so many hollow trees were occupied swarms would try to occupy almost any hollow place, no more!

[Cedars]

Wile I cannot say for sure about domestic bees, wild bees have all but disappeared. It has been at least a decade since I've even seen a wild bee tree. Used to be every where. Lots of hollow trees around me but no bees at all. I have seen years that so many hollow trees were occupied swarms would try to occupy almost any hollow place, no more!

 

Mites (varroa & tracheal) raised hell with the escapee/feral (and domestic) honeybee population. Domestics can be treated for mites. If I remember right there is around 300 native specie of bee in the USA, but these are not used for honey production (some experimenting is being done).

 

bee mites

[Moontanman]

Mites (varroa & tracheal) raised hell with the escapee/feral (and domestic) honeybee population. Domestics can be treated for mites. If I remember right there is around 300 native specie of bee in the USA, but these are not used for honey production (some experimenting is being done).

 

bee mites

 

Thanks for pointing that out, I had forgatten about the mites. That by it's self could account for the lack of bees in my yard, there are no domestic bees near where I live. I kept bees before the mites had become a wide spread problem. I miss the wild bees, I have alwasy been a fan of wild honey, black as tar, super sweet with just the right amount of bitterness. I used to harvest wild honey and I would get lots of larvae as well. The larvae I would smash up into the honey and eat it. They gave the honey a nutty taste that was really excellent.

[Michaelangelica]

Ok...yes. You said "An expensive price to pay for Florida tourists too cheap to buy some DEET".....DEET doesn't work for everyone and the mosquitos couldnt care less about it. Mosquitos carry killer diseases and I don't see anyone dying from the insecticides we've been using for years. If certain ones are too toxic for humans, there are laws prohibiting or limiting their use.

It is not difficult to seach the web for research articles on the harmful effects of pesticides on humans, bees and the environment

A few sites here:-

Use of biomarkers to indicate exposure of children to organophosphate pesticides: implications for a longitudinal study of children's environmental health.

http://old.iupac.org/publications/pac/2002/pdf/7410x1957.pdf

Cookie Absent

ScienceDirect - Toxicology Letters : Pyrethroids, nerve poisons: how their risks to human health should be assessed

ATSDR - ToxFAQs™: Pyrethrins and Pyrethroids

Exposures of Children to Organophosphate Pesticides and Their Potential Adverse Health Effects

Pesticides: Pesticides and Human Health

Human health and occupational exposure to organophosphates

I think it is "silly" to ignore this research and "silly" to rely on governments to protedt us from pesticide/ environmental toxins. Historically, governments have done a very poor job of this.

Most spraying in Florida seems to be protect horses; (and to protect tourists from discomfort). There are very few deaths attributed to mosquitoes (Of course this could be because they spray so much, so this proves nothing either way).

 

 

As far as bees disappearing, I highly doubt they are dying out from bug spray. A lot of the disappearing bee stories are anecdotal and honey is not scarce, at least in my local stores. The disappearing bee thing is funny to me. Like with the global warming and the CFC-caused ozone hole hoaxes, sometimes you just have to laugh at folks gullibility!!:naughty:

I don't know about this. It is not happening in other parts of the world, such as where I live.

"Bug spray", as you so depreciatingly say, kills bees.

Bugs are part of the environment and a "spray anything that moves" mentality helps no-one.

I am surprised you also dismiss the research on the Ozone Hole and Global Warming.

What do you believe in?

[InfiniteNow]

What do you believe in?

 

Perhaps the furtherance of an us and them mentality. :naughty:

[freeztar]

Perhaps the furtherance of an us and them mentality. :shrug:

 

And in the end, it's what the fighting's all about :naughty: