Are there more effective drugs than Methadone at breaking Heroin addiction?

[gribbon]

I am aware that we should not explicitly discuss drugs on this forum, but it is my understanding that should one not describe/promote illegal activities, then it is acceptable. If not, just delete this thread.

 

Since I was toddler, I have suffered racist bullying in every shape and form. I was hated because I everyone In school it was mostly verbal, whereas outside of school I was often ganged up on and beaten severely. I can remember at the age of 4 being ganged up on by teenagers much older than myself and being severely beaten. On other occasions I was knocked unconcscious, had ribs broken, internal bleeding, or required stitches in my face. I put up with it for years and years, but then family breakdown led me to give up, and become reckless with my life.

 

It was because of this that I started abusing solvents, and when I got myself a job, started buying drugs. I became addicted to Heroin, Cocaine and Speed in no time, and was completely ruined by multiple drug addiction by the age of 11. For me, four months of hospital treatment was required to break multiple drug addcition. I really don't enjoy talking about my childhood, but it because of this that I feel a need to help others avoid the same.

 

Methadone is the most common rehab medicine, but recently buprenorphine has been shown as more effective (and less dangerous). Ibogaine is an experimental medication which I would like to know a bit more about. It is supposed to becapable of breaking dependencies on several hard drugs, but I'm interested to know if it is good enough to be used in hospitals now...

 

Thank-you...:)

[sanctus]

I don't know the other rehab medicines you talk about (and neither well methadone). There is an alternitive to these rehab drug I think as well can help: distribution of clean (I mean tested to be in normal doses) heroin by the government, there are some cities in Switzerland which do this. The advantage is takes you out of the street life and the risks going along with that life and may give you more strength to be able to stop.

[Ganoderma]

a fairly non-standardized plant. Iboga. ibogain is seing looked at, although i am really nto sure where it is at in laboratory testing. google searching will yeild good results on this one.

[CraigD]

I’ve some experience with ibogaine, through an association with the Rainbow Family’s Center for Alternative Living Medicine. (as the linked to article explains, as with practically everything Rainbow, this is an entirely unofficial, leaderless folk tradition). It has an anecdotal reputation as an “addiction interrupter” for many dissimilar addictive drugs, including heroine, nicotine (cigarettes), and alcohol.

 

The basis for this reputation is psychological, not pharmacological. Unlike methadone, nicotine patches, etc., which is used over a long period as a replacement to reduce craving for the original substance, ibogaine is typically used 1 time only, in combination with intense support from therapist/friends. In the high doses used for addiction interuption, ibogaine produces an intense, long lasting (24-48 hour) period of incapacitation that typically includes hallucinations and loss of balance and coordination. Proponents believe that, preceded by the longest possible period of abstinence from the original substance, the combination of this additional time, the disorientation, an the religious/quasi-religious ritual effect typically resulting from the drug and the intense human support, the patient’s personality is altered in a profound way that cures them of practically all addictive behavior. Coupled with this belief is the drug’s history of use in primitive African tribal cultures, some of which use it in “adulthood initiation” rituals, after which a person is believed to have shed childhood interests, and is granted full adult status. The reasoning goes that modern western people are “incomplete adults” for never having had a distinct, profound, culturally recognized adulthood initiation, and are thus prone to inappropriate childish behavior, which includes substance abuse, irresponsibility, etc.

 

Despite having received US FDA approval in 1967, in 1970 ibogaine was placed on the US CSA schedule 1, where it remains today, making its use in the US strictly and severely illegal. Some countries do not have such legal prohibitions, and allow it to be prescribed and promoted by non-government organizations.

 

Similar claims of effectiveness for addiction interruption were made of LSD in the 1960s, particularly by research physician and LSD advocate John Lilly.

 

Because it’s difficult to separate the effect of peer support and counseling from the effect of “interrupter” drugs such as ibogaine, little to no scientific evidence exists supporting or refuting these claims. Despite having discussed it extensively with proponents, I’ve never actually witnessed the described ibogaine treatment, so can’t offer even anecdotal evidence for or against its efficacy.

[ughaibu]

A friend of mine initially came of his heroin habit by staying drunk, out in the countryside, for a week, after this a program of naltrexone kept him off: MedlinePlus Drug Information: Naltrexone

[Queso]

CraigD thank you for posting that. Ughaibu, too. This is a powerful thread.

[sanctus]

The ting with LSD might help, a couple of weeks back I discussed with a friend who passed a couple of years on heroin dependence. She told me that every now and then (about every 3 months in average) she still has some fall-backs, but to not use heroin again she goes then on a LSD trip. She really says this helps her afterwards to resist the temoptation of heroin.

[Cedars]

There are only two drugs that I know of, which can cause death on withdrawl, alcohol and barbituates. Those two need to be medically supervised as withdrawl occurs. That said..

 

Of the people I know who were physically addicted to some type of drug, each one of them who went thru the anguish and pain of physical withdrawl, hold the memory of that event as a powerful tool to keep them from using that drug again. What they say, over and over is, I will never do that drug again because I never want to go thru withdrawl.

 

One used a similar approach as the friend of ughaibu, via a hotel room, a strong friend who wouldnt let them out, and a bottle, but did no additional suppliments. She didnt know they were getting a room to dry her out, but after it was over she was very grateful.

 

The one I know who went into a methadone program relapsed many times and it seemed to be more of a game, than a real attempt at being clean.

 

I am not sure that 'easing' the reality of withdrawl is a benefit for the addicted.

[Ganoderma]

good points. i think after you have a support system one of the more effective routes is just go at it cold turkey, and dont leave until its "over". but breaking a physical addiction seems maybe easier than breaking a mental one. perhaps that is why ibogaine and lsd are said to work so well?

[CraigD]

One used a similar approach as the friend of ughaibu, via a hotel room, a strong friend who wouldnt let them out, and a bottle, but did no additional suppliments. She didnt know they were getting a room to dry her out, but after it was over she was very grateful.

Though I’ve also witnessed at least short-term success with this approach (I’ve personally used a variation of it on 2 occasions, involving sham hiking/camping trips and “lost” drugs), I’ve also seen the approach go badly wrong, not only failing to interrupt the targeted chemical dependency, but ending in criminal complaints being made and lawsuits filed.

 

It’s important to understand that keeping a person somewhere against there will, even with good intentions, can technically be construed as a crime. The use of physical force to do this, or to defend against a physical attack by the patient during a“physical intervention”, can be construed as assault and battery. And, as with any action that may necessitate physical force to restrain someone, there is a risk of injury to everyone involved.

 

Except in cases involving injury or death, or ones where the intervention or deprogramming was done by a paid “professional”, I’m unaware of an intervention actually resulting in criminal prosecution. However, anyone considering such action should be careful to consider the possibility that the patient will not be grateful, and may even seek revenge. People with CD problems often have violent, unwise friends, so caution is called for.

The one I know who went into a methadone program relapsed many times and it seemed to be more of a game, than a real attempt at being clean.

 

I am not sure that 'easing' the reality of withdrawl is a benefit for the addicted.

This matches some of my experience with people in Methadone treatment programs, and accounts from a friend who’s the director of a not-for-profit agency offering multiple treatment programs, includes a needle exchange programs.

 

In the opinions of many experienced therapists, it may be practically impossible for some people to completely abstain from alcohol and drug use. In such cases, “replacement” drugs such as Methadone may offer benefits. Methadone is taken orally, not injected, so reduces risk of potentially serious or fatal infection. Although Methadone overdose can cause severe injury or death, as a legitimately manufactured and distributed drug, its purity and the amount of active ingredient in a dose is well-controlled, reduces the risk of accidental overdose or tainting, and can be dispensed in safe single doses. Regulate use can allow a patient to be more responsible, have a job, and avoid social interactions that get he or she into trouble.

 

So “maintenance” therapy, while distasteful to many people, may be a preferable alternative to no therapy, or unsuccessful attempts to completely end drug use.

 

A word of caution about Methadone programs: Although all use the same drug, dosage, and about the same frequency, some are very expensive, to a degree that I consider fraudulent. Though many people have insurance to pay some or all of the cost, I advise caution, especially when considering programs costing more than US$1000/month that promise to be greatly more effective than others.

[Cedars]

Though I’ve also witnessed at least short-term success with this approach (I’ve personally used a variation of it on 2 occasions, involving sham hiking/camping trips and “lost” drugs), I’ve also seen the approach go badly wrong, not only failing to interrupt the targeted chemical dependency, but ending in criminal complaints being made and lawsuits filed.

 

It’s important to understand that keeping a person somewhere against there will, even with good intentions, can technically be construed as a crime. The use of physical force to do this, or to defend against a physical attack by the patient during a“physical intervention”, can be construed as assault and battery. And, as with any action that may necessitate physical force to restrain someone, there is a risk of injury to everyone involved.

 

Except in cases involving injury or death, or ones where the intervention or deprogramming was done by a paid “professional”, I’m unaware of an intervention actually resulting in criminal prosecution. However, anyone considering such action should be careful to consider the possibility that the patient will not be grateful, and may even seek revenge. People with CD problems often have violent, unwise friends, so caution is called for.This matches some of my experience with people in Methadone treatment programs, and accounts from a friend who’s the director of a not-for-profit agency offering multiple treatment programs, includes a needle exchange programs.

 

 

Those are good cautions to keep in mind when undertaking the challenge of physical addiction.

 

To clarify, of the people who I know who went thru withdrawl, all chose to go with a friend accompanied withdrawl. There was one who didnt know the intent of the trip to the hotel was to break the physical addiction.

 

I would add that less than a month ago I advised against useing this approach with a friend who has great concerns that her adult daughter is deeply involved with meth. After hearing the mothers version of what is occuring, I had to advise against this kind of method of intervention for the very reasons you give, the potential for prosecution.

 

Meth is a different drug than heroin or cocaine.

[TruthfullyLying]

I would say face the fact you were bullied as a kid, and that you took a losers way out. Bullying is as common among adolescent mammals as eating, its how we develop hierarchys and social structure. Instead of manning up to the bullies and throwing out some pain back at them, making you "no fun" to them, you decided to correlate taking a loss with suicide. Maybe theres a missing link I dont see here, but really I would say quit pitying yourself and man up. Take up drinking with buddies if you have to, but dont bother if you still feel some form of guilt or pity on yourself, because then you'll just become an alcoholic. Realize that whoever those bullies were, theyre probably pretty damned sorry over how they acted as kids, and if theyre not, theyre probably living in a trailer.

[gribbon]

Instead of manning up to the bullies and throwing out some pain back at them, making you "no fun" to them, you decided to correlate taking a loss with suicide.

 

Great suggestion, but I tried that-and failed. I ended up with a massive criminal record, which I was eventually cleared of once the authorities started getting helpful. :lol:

[TruthfullyLying]

Hmm, sorry to hear that man. It does suck when you think your doing the right thing and it goes to ****, you end up feeling like the worlds against you. I really dont know what to tell you though, I wish you alot of luck in dealing with all of this, because if you do come out on top of this, your gonna come up a stronger person then most in this world.

[gribbon]

Well, thanks....I would like to know how to help other people who have had problems with drugs though...we have an estimated 400,000 Heroin addicts in this country, we really need to help them.

[gribbon]

Shame I can't show you that ultra grim photo of myself which quite graphically shows you what multiple drug addiction can do. It shows me sitting on a hospital bed with my feet flat on the mattress, my knees drawn up to my chest, my neck twisted at an uncomfortable and awkward angle, my face pressed against my knees, and used needles lying around. Furthermore, there was horrendous scarring on my stomach caused by improper shooting of Heroin, Cocaine and Speed, (which was later removed by skin grafts). :hyper:

 

Heroin (in particular) screws you up...:eek:

[Michaelangelica]

Sounds like you have had quite an education very quickly.

Perhaps one day you will be able to help those poor bullies.

 

Apart from having my house robbed a few times and an addiction to alcohol I have little personal experience to offer.

However here is some info from some recent Australian papers on the subject.

the number of clients receiving methadone in Australia in 2001 was

estimated at 31,995, up from 16,906 in 1995

 

In 2001, alcohol was the drug most frequently reported by clients as being the main drug problem, with one in three (35%) substance users receiving treatment for an alcohol problem on census day

http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/phe/sdua02/sdua02-c09.pdf

 

Methadone Maintenance Treatment

Methadone is a long acting (more than 24 hours) drug from the opioid class (which includes morphine, pethideine, and codeine, etc.). The pharmacological effects of methadone helps prevent withdrawal, reduces drug hunger and in adequate amounts, blocks the euphoric effects of heroin and other opioids. It is taken orally on a daily basis.

Breakthrough for heroin addiction treatment

Original View [0]

Monday, 22 January 2007

 

 

University of Adelaide researchers have made a breakthrough in the treatment of heroin addiction which could improve treatment success rates for millions of heroin users around the world.

 

Researchers in the Discipline of Pharmacology [1] have discovered a genetic variation that may help determine the most effective methadone dosage levels for individual heroin addicts.

 

The discovery reveals why some people's genetic makeup makes them either less efficient or more effective in distributing drugs throughout their body to the central nervous system.

(More on genetic variability to drugs in the Hypography "Darwin re-visited" thread)

Breakthrough for heroin addiction treatment

 

Buprenorphine

Buprenorphine is another opiate, used in Australia as a painkiller post-operatively in hospitals. Like methadone, is an opiate replacement drug, or opiate agonist. It lasts longer in the body than methadone, so can be taken every two days (under the tongue). And it's safer than methadone – a person taking buprenorphine is less likely to overdose than one taking methadone.

Naltrexone

Naltrexone is also a drug, but it isn't a heroin substitute like methadone and buprenorphine. It's an antagonist – it blocks the brain's opioid receptors so that if someone who is taking naltrexone then uses heroin, the heroin will have no effect. So they will cease using heroin – at least that's the idea.

Treatment - Heroin - Features - Health Matters

 

LAAM

 

Treatment for heroin dependence using levo-alpha-acetylmethadol (LAAM) is to be evaluated in primary care (general practice) and specialist settings. LAAM is suitable as a substitute for methadone in maintenance treatment for heroin dependency but is prescribed on a three times per week basis rather than methadone's daily dosage.

. . .

Slow-Release Oral Morphine

 

Slow-release oral morphine is a well-established treatment for pain but more research is required to evaluate it as a treatment for heroin dependence. This trial, which is expected to begin by the end of 1998, will evaluate the safety, efficacy and cost effectiveness of slow-release oral morphine.

. . .

Tincture of opium

 

South Australia is collaborating with clinicians in Thailand to compare the efficacy of tincture of opium with methadone maintenance in a randomised controlled trial. If judged to have value as a maintenance treatment, its use in Australia will be further examined.

. . .

Herorin

Trials of legal prescription heroin have been conducted in Switzerland during the past six years.

A comprehensive collection of articles and reports on the Swiss trials can be found in the Department of the Parliamentary Library's Public Issues Kit No. 1 1997-98: Alternative approaches to managing heroin use: the ACT heroin trial and the international experience.

 

Trials of legal prescription heroin have also received attention in other countries. For example, the Netherlands, Denmark and Luxembourg are all considering following the Swiss approach to managing heroin use.

Influenced by the results of the Swiss trials, the German Medical Council unanimously resolved earlier this year that heroin should be made available by doctors to a select group of heroin users.

The Council has approached the Minister for Justice to address the legal issues involved. The German Minister for Health disagrees with the Council, preferring methadone maintenance to treat heroin dependency.(14)

Alternative Treatments for Heroin Addiction Current Issues Brief 3 1998-99