Barring HIV+ Immigrants

[sanctus]

Racoon what is the link with radical islamics? And why someone should say it is the right thing to support them with the same arguments than for helping other people?

[Zythryn]

Raccoon, you seem to be spinning into never-never land?? Many of your recent comments seem to have no bearing on what people are saying to you or about the topic.

 

If you are suggesting people that contract HIV from sex are less 'worthy' I suggest throwing this thread into strange claims.

If you are holding that HIV infection (from any source) should be treated as other communicable diseases, I would feel that holds more merit. That is, IF we can get some data on how communicable it is.

I.E. one ebola victim can spread the disease to 1000 people in 48 hours, one HIV victim can spread the disease to ??? in ??? hours.

[CraigD]

You Never stated that How Many!?

That many?

Yes. According to the data I examined, which I think was well presented in the paper I cited, In 2003 the number of new HIV infections caused by blood transfusions was 80,000 – 100,000 new HIV infections annually, 2-4% of the total cases.

20003??

I thought it was 20007?

This is a legitimate criticism.

 

I was unable, in the time I had, to find more recent statistics. I strongly hope that the situation is better, but have reason, I think, to be pessimistic. Although it fails to provide statistical data, this 2006 US state department reportsuggest that improvements since 2003 are slight.

 

More recent data would be welcome.

So you advocate letting them all in?

No. I believe Racoon has failed to read, misread, or is intentionally ignoring my previous post in this thread, in which I stated

I voted “Yes [countries should bar HIV positive immigrants], except for some special circumstances”.

I don’t support policies that either unconditionally allow or prohibit HIV-positive people from being allowed into any country.

 

As I stated in my previous post, I believe the most effective course to promote the health of people both in wealthy nations like the US, and poor ones like Nigeria, Zambia and Zimbabwe, is to improve health care in poor countries. This improvement should include areas such as HIV screening of collected blood. This approach is most effective, I believe, both in controlling healthcare costs, and reducing the number of people in both wealthy and poor countries who suffer from HIV/AIDS.

 

A “closed door” immigration policy is not, IMHO, as effective a health-promoting measure as improving healthcare worldwide, not only because it ignores the plight of people in poor countries, but because it ignores such factors as HIV infections brought into wealthy countries as a result of sexual activity among tourists and citizens working or living abroad. The outbreak of HIV/AIDS in the US in the early 1980’s that lead to its identification and the present-day terms HIV and AIDS is believed to be due to such a disease vector, a single Canadian flight attendant. (source: HIV History - HIV Timeline - The History of HIV/AIDS).

[CraigD]

How Many Islamic Radicalists do you support becuz' Its the right thing to do?

I don’t support any people who advocate psychological, physical or economic violence, regardless of religion.

 

As a practical matter, living and providing services almost exclusively in the US, I have very little direct experience with Islamic radicals. Although I've had the good fortune to have little trouble with religious radicals, what little I have had has been from Christian radicals. My family has received direct verbal and telephone threats from Christian radicals, and, my single worst experience with them, in 1999, my daughter was attacked by a group identifying themselves as Christian fundamentalists and physically beaten badly enough to require hospitalization.

 

If I lived or worked in or with primarily Muslim communities, I expect any bad experiences I might have with religious radicals would most likely be with Muslim radicals.

 

Although I’m an atheist, I don’t want to appear anti-religious, so will add that the worst violent experiences I’ve had have involved people who, which nominally Christian, were not very religious, whom I would in no way describe as “religious extremists”.

[pgrmdave]

Once again, Rac, you and I disagree on immigration :hihi:

 

First off, stop it with calling everybody who disagrees with you "ultra-liberal". It's rude, wrong, illogical, and beneath you - you can make much better reasoned arguments than that.

 

Second, AIDS can't be compared to highly communicable diseases (TB) or non-communicable ailments (allergies). It's neither. It's a fatal disease that can't be transmitted casually. It does pose a public health risk, but not as much of one as you might be trying to imply. It does need to be taken into consideration, but unlike you, Rac, I think that the US should strive for idealism, not protectionism.

 

"With great power comes great responsibility" Cliche, perhaps, but I think that it's true. Those with more have a social responsibility to help those with less, and the US definitely has more to offer than most nations. As we are so powerful, I think that we have a duty to try to help those in need, and not turn away people because they are sick, poor, or poorly educated.

 

The sick do pose a problem, but I think that we should help them, not ignore them. If a communicable disease can be cured, I think that we should cure them, and allow them access. If it cannot be cured, but is not highly communicable, we should allow them in, but perhaps keep track of them for x number of months, making sure they are not being a danger to society.

 

 

 

Here's an analogy. We have a small homeless population in my county. However, it is not legal to sleep out on the streets. So, when the Sparta Township police find homeless people, they pick them up, and drop them off in Newton. When the Newton police find them, they pick them up and drop them off in Andover. Andover drops them in Stanhope. Stanhope drops them in Byram. Byram drops them in Sparta. See the problem? Because nobody is willing to help them, the problem is simply compounded, and not taken care of.

[Zythryn]

I think Dave's words fit my thoughts on the matter very nicely (wish I were as good with them).

 

If HIV were more highly communicable, I would take another look. But since it is not easily communicable, I think we should not restrict entry.

Isn't there something on the placque at Ellis Island about 'give me your sick...'?

[InfiniteNow]

:phones: