Work log for operational test of "Terra Preta"

[Taildragerdriver]

State of Terra Preta Operational Test #1 4/10/2007

 

I though it might be interesting to folks to track the actual work I have been doing to prepare for the operational test of Terra Preta. So I decided I would do it on this thread which is not going forward for any other reason.

 

So the work of doing science is not all you might think it is.

 

First we are going through the phases of getting funded.

 

As many of you may know this is the work almost all science projects go through. It is a good and valuable process. I makes you refine your thinking review your ideas based on other science that is published and convince other smart people you have a good idea.

 

As I earlier described in the "Opinion: What are the challenges of Terra Preta" we sent in a funding proposal for internal Los Alamos funding because it relates to energy production. This request went in as of 2/22/2007 we are still waiting to hear back if we get that funding.

 

Now we are working on the possibility of getting funding from Oregon and New Mexico state economic development grants. One of our group is going to Santa Fe to meet with the Governors Science Advisor this Thursday to start that ball going. If he is successful and gets a good reception I will start the same thing with Oregon economic development.

 

Equipment preparation

 

The snow has gone melted off about three weeks ago now and I have been getting my equipment ready for use in this project. I'm also investing in some additional equipment I have been wanting to get and that will be useful in this project.

 

1. 1968 John Deere Backhoe: I had to charge the battery and pull and repair the fuel tank because it had developed a leak this past fall.

 

One of the first things I need to get done is improve the irrigation system on the pasture and I needed the backhoe for that.

 

2. 1959 Fordson Major Tractor: This tractor has some water leaks so I have filled it up with water and charge the battery and it is ready to go:

 

This is the main tractor I use to do field work.

 

3. 1962 Fordson Major Tractor: I have been looking for a second tractor for quite a while and a good one came up for auction 3 weeks ago and I was able to purchase it.

 

4. Massey-Fergison 3 point Sickle Bar Mower: I was able to get this from a friend an old mower he no longer needed. I will need this to cut grass that will be used to cover the pile burn before it is covered with dirt. I will need to do some repairs on this but it runs fine.

 

5. Manure spreader and large industrial chipper. We are looking at one each of these that are coming up for sale at auctions in the next few weeks.

 

I have other equipment that will be needed that I will be preparing for use this summer.

 

As you can see part of the process of getting ready is making sure all the equipment is in a condition you can use to do the science.

 

Fixing and Improving the Irrigation system.

 

The irrigation system on the pasture we are going to put the charcoal in is not in the best of shape after years of using it as a pasture so I needed to get it in shape. This work has to be completed before the ditch is filled with water for the summer irrigation season.

 

1. Clean secondary ditch: The ditch that is used to spread the water evenly across the pasture had long since been trampled in and was overgrown with grass. I hooked the ditcher up to the Fordson last week and ran it down the 2000' of ditch cleaning it out and building up the banks to hold the water till it is ready to put the dams in to spread it across the pasture.

 

2. Build the new wood head gates that are used to stop the main feeder ditch up to a level where it will run though the side gates to the secondary ditch. The old ones have long since rotted away. I would like to put in concrete head gates but don't have time for now. I am building them in my equipment shed now.

 

3. Use the backhoe to install the wood head gates.

 

4. Replace one of the metal side head gates that lets water into the secondary ditch the cows destroyed the old one. I have been storing a steel head gate which is 12' in diameter for some years but it was extended to sit in a very high ditch bank about 10'. The ditch bank in the pasture is 2' high so I need to cut out the extension and install it in the pasture.

 

I will get to work on the wigwam burner and getting ready to make charcoal as soon as I get the irrigation work finished.

 

Well that kind of chronicles where I am currently in terms of preparing for the season and getting ready to do the Terra Preta operational test. It will be a lot of work but I will do some of it so we can get some acres of pasture treated even we don't get funded.

 

Thanks

 

Taildragerdriver

[Taildragerdriver]

State of Terra Preta Operational Test #1 4/23/2007

 

Funding

 

The contact with the New Mexico Science director went very well. He was very supportive and took the idea down to a meeting in Los Crusis at NMSU the ag collage for New Mexico. The current concept is that there may be a parter of an operational test in New Mexico funded by the State possibly at the on of the Ag Experiment Stations. So they are starting to look for a place to work with us.

 

We have started a small contact in the state of Oregon. We will see how it goes we are about to start grass roots contacts in my county.

 

We are still waiting to hear any word back from the Los Alamos grants.

 

There is an interesting article in the Oregon Department of Agriculture quarterly newsletter on the 25X25 where you can get 50% tax rebate on bio energy production costs but I'm still working on figuring out if Terra Preta would qualify.

 

Equipment

 

1. Massey-Fergison 3 point Sickle Bar Mower: I will need to do some repairs on this but it runs fine. I got a number of parts for the mower at a farm auction last Saturday.

 

2. Farm Hand pto driven manure spreader: We got the manure spreader we needed at the above farm auction last Saturday.

 

3. Large chipper: one is coming up for auction next weekend.

 

Preparation of Irrigation and Burner

 

I finished all the work on the irrigation system last week.

 

I surveyed the area around the wigwam burner again and we need to do four thing to get ready for collecting the wood and preparing the burner.

 

1. Cut the cover off the burner with a cutting torch so we can get get the backhoe in to clean out the interior.

 

2. Remove all scrap metal in the are to make it safe to work in.

 

3. Develop two areas for wood to be delivered to be dried before it is made into charcoal one for hardwood and one for conifer wood.

 

4. Test small mound charcoal burn to gain experience with making charcoal on a larger scale.

 

Well that brings work list up to date for a while

 

Thanks

 

Taildragerdriver

[Tormod]

Interesting work. Thanks for keeping us up to date!

[Taildragerdriver]

I have been very busy on this issue for the last year along with fighting fires and other fire work. So much so that I have not even had time to do any updates but it is time to do so.

 

I am going to ask some questions in this discussion and see if I can get some additional information or some pointers as to who I might learn from.

 

Since I last posted many interesting and valuable new concepts have come to light. I was trying to be on a fast track to getting charcoal in the field. I have since backed off of that due to the fact that the ways I was looking at making large quantities of charcoal were really not viable and were potentially very problematic in terms of air pollution.

 

I have since done a lot of looking around discovering that a much more viable solution seems to exist by making charcoal using what is called the retort method. It is also valuable that this method can utilize the polluting output and turn it into bio-oil which we can utilize as several kinds of fuel to replace current oil products. The idea is very exciting because it makes the process potentially of making biochar a more valuable method in efforts to slow or stop climate change.

 

I have been googling a lot for the last year looking for the best opportunities to do this. My current best concept which I have discovered is a company in Canada called Advanced BioRefienery Inc. (ABRI) You can see their website at:

 

ABRI - Advanced Biorefinery Inc.

 

Biochar

 

In reviewing the science around making charcoal there is a range of temperatures that charcoal can be produced and the cooler the more acid the charcoal is. In the ABRI refinery the charcoal is produced at 350C which produces a slightly acidic charcoal.

 

Can anybody confirm that this should not be an issue in most farm soils?

 

As I understand it most farm soils are basic in acidity only forest soils tend to be acidic.

 

We have discussed the idea of selling biochar in something like 30 pound bags at gardening stores and have had some interest in that. We are also considering a second product with mycrorrhizal inoculant mixed with the charcoal.

 

What do people think about this idea for a biochar product?

 

I had one post last year that somebody said they would like to see somebody do this.

 

If we go forward with this bag idea I would really like some ideas on naming and marketing the product. We have had some suggestions like "The Secret of El Darado" for a product name, basically the name of the BBC documentary. Also we have talked about a label that tells the story of Terra Preta.

 

Much of the charcoal will also be available for putting into farm soils.

 

Bio-oil

 

Bio-oil it is a real interesting thing, something completely new to me. This process can produce lots of bio-oil and you can choose to make more biochar or more bio-oil which ever you need.

 

Bio-oil comes basically in two phases that will not stay in emulsion and will come apart if mixed.

 

There is one phase that has lots of water and does not have lots of energy value. We are trying to figure out what to do with this part we may spray it on the charcoal to make the charcoal less likely to blow away.

 

The heavy phase is where basically all the energy is in terms of using it as a fuel it can currently be used in three ways. 1. as industrial bunker fuel, 2. home heating oil or in constant speed diesel engines like large generators, 3. Mixed 50% with bio-diesel for use in vehicles.

 

My information on this all is basically for reading research. I wander if there is anybody on the forum that has more information on bio-oil.

 

The bio-oil is also supposed to be acidic in nature and without some modification can not be stored in a regular steel tanks. It needs to be stored in stainless steel tanks. We hope to be able to figure out a way to neutralize the bio-oil for storage in regular heating oil tanks.

 

So as you can see there are problems yet to be resolved before bio-oil is a great product but it sure has potential since we get it out when we make charcoal and by getting it we solve some major pollution problems.

 

Current status

 

We are currently putting together the business plan. This will allow us to see if we have a viable set of products and whether the business is economically viable. If it looks viable there is currently quite a few options for financing outside of grants.

 

Fortunately there are many tax and other incentives nationally and in the state of Oregon to get this going. We hope these will help make our concept economically viable.

 

Fortunately lots research is going on in many of the universities around the country that will help us bring this vision together sooner rather than later.

 

I will try to update this information as time goes on, many new developments are coming fast. This is a very interesting time.

[freeztar]

I have been very busy on this issue for the last year along with fighting fires and other fire work. So much so that I have not even had time to do any updates but it is time to do so.

 

I for one am glad to see you post here again. Even if people do not directly reply, rest assured that your posts do not go without notice. :)

I am going to ask some questions in this discussion and see if I can get some additional information or some pointers as to who I might learn from.

I would recommend that you contact "erich" from this site. He seems to be very familiar with the networking involved in this evolving field.

Since I last posted many interesting and valuable new concepts have come to light. I was trying to be on a fast track to getting charcoal in the field. I have since backed off of that due to the fact that the ways I was looking at making large quantities of charcoal were really not viable and were potentially very problematic in terms of air pollution.

Your initial idea sounded good, but I do agree that air pollution is a problem (at least on a massive scale).

 

I have since done a lot of looking around discovering that a much more viable solution seems to exist by making charcoal using what is called the retort method.

 

Have a look at this thread:

http://hypography.com/forums/terra-preta/12347-rocket-stove-charcoal-retort.html?highlight=charcoal+retort

 

It is also valuable that this method can utilize the polluting output and turn it into bio-oil which we can utilize as several kinds of fuel to replace current oil products. The idea is very exciting because it makes the process potentially of making biochar a more valuable method in efforts to slow or stop climate change.

 

It certainly is a viable option imho.

I have been googling a lot for the last year looking for the best opportunities to do this. My current best concept which I have discovered is a company in Canada called Advanced BioRefienery Inc. (ABRI) You can see their website at:

 

ABRI - Advanced Biorefinery Inc.

 

Biochar

 

In reviewing the science around making charcoal there is a range of temperatures that charcoal can be produced and the cooler the more acid the charcoal is. In the ABRI refinery the charcoal is produced at 350C which produces a slightly acidic charcoal.

 

Can anybody confirm that this should not be an issue in most farm soils?

It depends. As long as the soil chemistry is right, the plants should be even happier due to the added water retention and the "wee beasties".

Unfortunately, there seems to be no clear definition of how much is enough. Soil types are highly variable and the amount of char that approaches maximum effectiveness in any given soil is likely just as variable. So, yes, it *is* an issue for farm soils, but more research will reveal the proper proportion of amendments. That can start at home. ;)

 

As I understand it most farm soils are basic in acidity only forest soils tend to be acidic.

In Oregon, particularly in the coniferous mountain regions of the west, the soil should indeed be acidic because of the tannin input from the pines, and other conifers. Of course, this is location specific. To analyze the soils in your area, I suggest the Web Soil Survey. Use the soil explorer to analyze the soil types and determine typical pH levels.

 

We have discussed the idea of selling biochar in something like 30 pound bags at gardening stores and have had some interest in that. We are also considering a second product with mycrorrhizal inoculant mixed with the charcoal.

 

Have you contacted Paul Stamets about this?

It seems like a great idea and could probably benefit quite a bit from his expertise.

 

What do people think about this idea for a biochar product?

Where can I order some? :hyper:

 

I had one post last year that somebody said they would like to see somebody do this.

 

If we go forward with this bag idea I would really like some ideas on naming and marketing the product. We have had some suggestions like "The Secret of El Darado" for a product name, basically the name of the BBC documentary. Also we have talked about a label that tells the story of Terra Preta.

 

Much of the charcoal will also be available for putting into farm soils.

I like the idea of a label that describes the product in detail, but I would shy from using the documentary name as it refers to TP and this is only char.

What about...?

-Chargon (Char of Oregon)

-[math]CO^2[/math] (Char Organization of Composting Oregonians)

-Back to the Earth

-Black Soil Initiative

-Charmediation

 

Good luck with the upstart! I wish ya'll great success. :)

[Ahmabeliever]

Hi, I followed your posts in the initial TP thread with great interest.

 

I would, if in your shoes, get some test plots and try amending them with varying amounts of char. You could try some with only organic matter, lime and blood meal, and other with NPK ferts, throw smashed pottery in another, another with crushed up clay soil...

 

I've seen a pattern in that those using compost are having less problems with nitrogen depletion. If possible I also highly recommend adding Organic Matter, preferably composted (though your idea of tilling in alfalfa was brilliant) for nitrogen.

 

Dolomite lime and blood and bone, in my experiments, compliment char mix very nicely. The dolomite will also help counteract any acidifying effects.

 

This small project will help keep your interest up while waiting on funding which can be a long wait... And more importantly, give you some frames of reference on your own soil to work from.

 

Char-cool - made at low temps - for planetary cooling :hihi:

Bio-brix

Coke - hehe

 

Keep your chin up you are doing a wonderful thing!

 

Many people waiting for the green light on TP when it's obvious it works, and to me, obvious why it works, though science won't let it go till they've isolated something (which will never work alone anyway).

 

TP is a very successful soil amendment when bacteria and fungi are allowed to flourish in it's presence. Bacteria and fungi flourish in organic matter. They also do all the nute cycling.

 

The FACT that TP type mixes work around the globe, with no specialist bacteria added, means it's about the soil biology, not some isolated amazonian superbug.

 

In the wee beasties section here I go on a rant about soil health etc. Worth looking at, especially as you are putting your money where your mouth is. I'm pretty good at connecting the dots, I don't think that's how it's done around here :lol:

 

It's worked for me with eco-systems in the past so I shall soldier on.

 

As you know every farm's different, every paddock for that matter. Small plots for local testing will save you putting the wrong mix over a large area.

[Ahmabeliever]

"The FACT that TP type mixes work around the globe, with no specialist bacteria added, means it's about the soil biology, not some isolated amazonian superbug."

 

Doh - bit hungover, I'll try harder....

 

In Canada, New Zealand, and Japan, charcoal amended soils have been found/used. All these soils show increased fertility and production, but they do not have amazonian specific bacterial communities.

 

The greatly increased micro-bial activity associated with charcoal amendment will be better enhanced with organic matter, as opposed to NPK ferts.

 

I believe when the bacterial diversification is sufficient you will be able to forget about fertiliser and concentrate on adding back crop wastes as compost. This may take a few years. I also believe that adding fertiliser is only slowing bacterial growth (trade off for plant growth in many cases), I believe a charcoal soil would benefit far more with VAM fungal innoculation, compost teas for bacterial innoculation, bone meal, clay, and nitrogen rich organic matter.

[Taildragerdriver]

Freeztar:

 

Thanks for the reply and I'm glad to know my posts are of value. As you might imagine there are times when it is hard to make time to do them. I will make an effort to do them more regularly.

 

It is very interesting that there seems to be a lot of interest in the bagged charcoal each time I talk to people. I am looking at putting together a business plan as I stated. It keeps coming back to me that we might want to start quickly with a small plant and start bagging the char for retail sales. It may come sooner rather than later which is a bit different from my original plan, since I would not be going for the big agricultural tests initially. It may be the best business sense may move us towards the retail concept in the short run as we get the basic effort going.

 

Also thanks for the input on the naming ideas we sure will consider them.

[Taildragerdriver]

Ahmabeliever:

 

Actually I have been doing some of what you suggest in a garden on a section of pasture that is kind of off to the side. I haven't got anything that would be conclusive results so I haven't reported out but in my soils just adding charcoal helps. I think mostly because it has so much clay in it just making it more friable improves the growth. As the snow is melting I'm brainstorming new ideas to try on this area. I will surely review your suggestions as I consider what to do.

 

On the second issue about funding you mention I have investors ready to jump in once we are pretty sure we can make money. Therefore the business plan. I'm really excited in that I feel like we are on the way to fairly quickly getting a plant. If I can find a use for the bio-oil which I think may be relatively easy. (There is a very big Cement plant about 70 miles from me that uses lots of bunker fuel, I plan to contact them in the next week or two to see if they will buy it) If I can find a few garden stores to buy some charcoal (I have talked to a couple who have stated a general interest so need to get down to specifics) I have my bases covered. We have the funding to buy the things we need to do the small plant and I have people ready to go to work.

 

More realistically it may be a year from now but I'm getting close or I wouldn't be working so hard to get the help on the business plan. We are planning for both a 50 ton/day plant and 1 ton/day plant. Conceptually it may make more sense to pilot with the small plant but if the economics look good we may go with the big one that will be at least a year away and require finding external funding outside of my investors.

 

As you can see I'm one of those goofy people who can keep his belief in things going even when they look darkest, so I may be overly optimistic, I usually am but no problem it keeps my juices going. (I do my homework to keep from going off on wild goose chases though.) The Forest Service modeling work I support took 15 years to get well accepted but I just kept at it. This may be a good trait to get this one going.

 

Thanks

[Ahmabeliever]

Excellent work!

 

Your idea of creating char from forestry breaks holds water too. Would work and benefit many countries.

 

I want to get a small steam engine running off a TP boiler/retort. This to pump water for hydro power storage. One of the earliest steam inventions (16th century I think) was a steam dredge so it's certainly been done before...

 

The torque available with steam power, if harnessed correctly, could certainly shift a lot of water. I figure if I'm simultaneously making charcoal and storing energy it's a win/win type device for the lifestyle blocker or even green householders. The biggest hurdles for me, will be the math - how much water to store, how big an engine, how much fuel, boiler size...

 

Wanting to keep it simple as gasification etc, bit over my head and festooned with red tape... And I'm still working on two Aquaponic prototypes so fairly busy...

 

A 50t plant! Dang, now that's getting on with it. Making money before you cover a paddock is smart too. You can then use the farm as R&D for the product.

 

I'm glad your hearts in it, makes light of much work.

[Taildragerdriver]

I went into Baker City, Oregon yesterday to meet with the county economic development people. These people have the job of trying to get businesses started in our county.

 

I spent about 2 hours with them and we went over the concept in some detail and discussed the plan that I generally have on moving this forward.

 

We discussed the products we might want to sell from the plant.

 

Possible Products

 

1. Bulk charcoal to sell to farmers.

 

2. Charcoal packed in 30 to 50 pound bags to sell at garden stores.

 

3. Charcoal and Mychorrizal amendments in 30 to 50 pound bags.

 

4. Boi-Oil for bunker fuel

 

5. Bio-Oil Stabilized with glycerol to be sold for Home heating oil.

 

6. Bio-Oil mixed 50% with Biodiesel for truck fuel.

 

We had quite a discussion about which of these might be best. We also discussed that it wouldn't be a good idea to try to make all of these products at once but to choose two or three of them and do a market test to see if I could sell them.

 

There were interesting and far ranging discussions about each product an its viability at the scale that we might plan to utilize excess forest fuels.

 

This was basically a discussion of each product if we planned to base our business plan on a 1 DTPD (Dry Ton Per Day) plant or a 50 DTPD plant.

 

It turns out the selected products would be almost entirely different depending on which plant we chose to go forward with.

 

Choice 1 DTPD vs 50 DTPD Plant

 

We discussed the idea that almost all of these products are completely new to the area probably even to the entire United States. Nobody is currently making or selling anything like any of these products.

 

On the positive side there is for all practical purposes no competition for them except the regular heating oil or other garden products.

 

On the negative side there is no public demand for any of them right now.

 

All of the above led to the discussion of the feeling that these markets had to be tested and developed. This may not be trivial and would lead to the pretty obvious conclusion that the 1DTPD plant is the most reasonable to go forward and would have less risk.

 

We also discussed the idea that we may be able to get this 1DTPD plant up and running with in the next year with the local investors being able to supply much of the capital. While is might take several years to secure the funding for the 50DTPD plant which many times as costly.

 

This decision narrowed my efforts to research costs for my business plan.

 

Best Products based on 1 DTPD plant

 

With this decision made. We went over all the products again and decided the bests products would be:

 

Bio-Oil Stabilized with glycerol to be sold for Home heating oil.

 

Charcoal packed in 30 to 50 pound bags to sell at garden stores.

 

and possibly

 

Charcoal and Mychorrizal amendments in 30 to 50 pound bags.

 

The other products would not be researched to see if there is a market for them at least initially.

 

Getting Licenses and Permits to Install the Plant

 

One of the things the economic development department does is help to document what permits would be required. They will help me find out what permits are required in the US and in the State of Oregon.

 

In this area fortunately we are not plowing this ground ourselves. There is a similar plant going in down in Southern Arizona that we are partnering with although it is a research plant and doesn't plan to sell any of its products. They have the same issues for US License and Permit issues.

 

Therefor I asked the economic development staff to focus on Oregon permitting.

 

Economic Incentives

 

A second issue then are the economic incentives that both the state and the federal government offer to alternative energy or biomass production facilities.

 

I asked the economic development people to help define all of these that are available as well.

 

It turns out that most of these are tax incentives, which really doesn't help you get started but makes it possible to make greater profits once you are making a profit. It has no affect on your start up costs and funding needs.

 

So the key here is can we figure out how to make a profit so we can get the benefit of the tax incentives.

 

Current estimates of Profitability

 

Based on my current analysis it looks like purchase and operation of two of 1DTPD plants could be profitable. We would set them up side by side and run them with the same amount of labor with double production. Of course this is based on proving that the quantities and prices in my estimates are accurate.

 

The main sticking point is paying for labor all the rest of the investments are pretty clear and the source of feedstock is available. The price of the heating oil is pretty clear. The unknown is what could we sell the bagged products for and how much demand is there for these products.

 

In fact I just checked and all of our heating oil could be sold within 20 miles of the plant in the two small communities each with less than 300 people and the surrounding farms.

 

I have heard from people on the forum that there is a general interest in bagged charcoal but at least to start with we want to sell the product locally and not get into big shipping costs.

 

So this is the current status is: I'm working on the business plan with more specifics and hope to have it done in the next few weeks and start the ball rolling.

 

I welcome any and all comment and suggestion as I go through this effort.

[freeztar]

The biggest problem I see is that you don't have a market for the char sales.

I'm not a marketing guru, but allow me to suggest some possible strategies.

 

Community Outreach

Perhaps you could set up presentations locally so farmers can see the benefit of adding char to their soil. All the resources you would need for such a presentation can be found in these forums. If you need help setting one up, then just ask. :hihi:

 

Packaging

I recommend packaging the char in bags that have plentiful information about the benefits of char. This way, a curious farmer walking through the local garden store might see a bag of char and read the bag to see what the big deal is. Otherwise, they might just pass it by. Also, this is a good place to advertise the "localness" as well as all the green benefits from pyrolysis.

 

That's all I've got right now, but I'll keep thinking on it...

[Taildragerdriver]

Freeztar:

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I had given some of these ideas you suggest a bit of thought and probably plan to do most if not all those things in the long run. I'm not sure they will help during my business planning efforts.

 

My efforts in the next few weeks will be to contact several garden and farm stores in a reasonable distance of my location. I have talked to several people that work in these stores. Those working in small single stores or small local chains indicated they might have an interest in one or both of these products. None of these folks were management and suggested my next step would be to make an appointment to talk to their management.

 

That is exactly what I plan to do next to test for a market. I want to talk to them about how much they would be willing to buy or would I have to consign with them to start with. I also want to see if they can help me set the wholesale price for a bag of Charcoal or Charcoal and Mychorrizal mix. Then I can add those prices into my business planning calculations.

 

Once I move from planning to marketing I surely would plan to have presentations at these kinds of stores. These would include signs to mount above pallets of bags, handout documents for the stores, and gardening sessions where we would teach about the value of char. In fact I have a niece who works in a nursery and I have talked to the owner of the nursery and he would be very supportive. They currently do a lot of sessions for gardeners in the spring and I could be included once we have a product to sell.

 

As for marketing to farmers, I have talked to lots of farmers especially the high production guys I see at farm auctions, they are very interested. The problem is they need some cost benefit analysis and they also need access to very large quantities of char. If I put on the char at what I now consider to be the optimal rate I could use the entire annual production of the 2 1DTPD plants on one single pasture I own. So my current concept is we can't go for farmers as customers until we move up to a 50 DTPD plant. This was part of the discussion with the economic development staff and we decided the risk vs investment was pretty large if we chose that plant.

 

So in the short run gardeners don't need the same proof of gains and return on investment the farmers do. Therefor it makes much more sense to sell to them with our limited production of char.

[Ahmabeliever]

On innoculated charcoal - method? Live fungi wont survive without a host. The spores could be innoculated though.

 

You need a spin doctor

 

meet the man of a thousand faces (OK I get bored and do something else ok?)

 

Edited a newspaper once. Don't expect me to edit posts for grammar/spelling though. :lol:

 

This'll ramble worse than usual sorry I'm a bit hungover. Happy Easter! :)

 

you could photograph and document your test plots with charcoal amendment. It's better to use your actual product but if you have charcoal you wish to sell, and charcoal in the experiments, it is not misleading. Provided your test charcoal is pyrolised, and subsequently, so is your product.

 

Soon as you have your product immediately start test grows with it to use for future advertising.

 

A trick to advertising is 3's. When a customer sees something 3 times it gets lodged in their memory, or so it is said in advertising circles.

 

That's why you often see multimedia campaigns launched - press radio and television.

 

That type of campaign costs a lot of money, which most start-up's don't have. But you can get all of the above, for free.

 

I'm about to launch a fishtank that virtually cleans itself. I doubt I'll pay a cent for advertising because I can create so much spin off what I've got there. Locally first, of course, then spend money when I can afford it, to spread out. I can create so many good news stories with this thing, and so can you. The news is short of positive input.

 

Stories - Clean up hydroponics, Clean up aquaculture, custom environments for endangered fish, food security, water conservation, rare plants... off the top of my head, and follow ups - breeding success with endangered fish, aquaponics out producing hydroponics, environmental; stories about damage from existing industry followed by the 'solution'. :eek:

 

You have a VERY newsworthy subject there.

 

We'll get to what an editor wants to see shortly - the detail. Newsworthy is a huge step in the right direction.

 

Start small. You have made plants grow better with charcoal. Special pyrolised charcoal, and send this story to gardening magazines, radio garden shows and garden columns. If you have a local garden show hold off till you have a couple of 'hits' out there already then give them the full TP better crops bio-fuel carbon sink environmental waste arsenal.

 

Stories you could write about, or get someone to write about, first put the idea out there about charcoal, and tree wastes, smaller stuff in the picture, teasers to give a few links to the main event.

 

You could have environmental groups supporting your cause for you too, all types of lobbyists, the time is ripe! Be careful of extreme idiots of course.

 

Planning to use charcoal to 'save the farm'

Increased Crop Growth

Making firebreaks/forestry safer

Cleaning up bio-wastes

Then pull out the bio-fuel and carbon sink stuff after you already have interest/free advertising on the other points.

Utilise the other plant, the research they do, write about it, followed by, your plant, you're doing it!

 

Now, what does an editor want.

 

Who - who are the people involved in the story?

What - what is the subject matter about? The point?

Why - Why did this happen or why are you doing this?

Where - On the moon, on your farm, in the forest, local carries weight...

When - Recent event? Opening when? Started research? Planned deadlines?

How - Some working knowledge, but in this topic, unless targeting intellectuals, KISS.

 

And a happy ending ie: And they all lived happily ever after. :cup:

 

A very good book on marketing, which I've successfully launched 2 business from with (virtually) no advertising start up costs - How To Really Write A Marketing Plan.

 

So many lightbulbs went off when I read that book I'd sit up all hours devouring it and scribbling notes by the end I was ready and went off and started a business that had never been done here before (comedy circuit).

 

You could have conservative talkback pick it up as a global warming topic.

TV will love the bio-fuel and better cropping.

Community organisations should all be informed that you will take the wood waste when they are doing clean-ups. (If you can).

Do a demo at the local schools. They'll all tell thier parents.

 

1,2,3 get it in their heads.... :hihi:

 

Winning hearts and minds :)

[davidgmills]

Just saw your thread. I kept waiting for an update but didn't know where to look. I have always thought you would be the one to kick TP off in a big way, because you are a farmer and the rest of us are not.

 

I will say this about the selling of small bags of charcoal. You will have competition. I buy mine from Cowboy Charcoal in 8 lb bags for about $5. Also one of the major charcoal companies -- I think it is Matchlight -- is also making lump charcoal for about the same price. These of course are for barbecue not soil remediation but I use them in my soil.

 

To really compete you would have to do something different -- make something specifically for soil remediation. Of course if you did that, then you would lose sales for barbecue.

 

My soil continues to improve. I live in the suburbs on about .4 acres. But my trees seem to be improving and potted plants are doing well as are my gardens. My goal is to put one ton of charcoal on my property before I die. So far I have added about 100 pounds. Long way to go.

[Taildragerdriver]

Well its been a long time and I guess it is time for another update. It has been an incredibly busy summer. Lots still going on but progress is being made. Sometimes I wonder if I would have gotten into this idea if I knew all the range of stuff I was going to get into. Well hear goes.

 

Federal Department of Environmental Quality Waste Storage Permit

 

I found out I had to get a permit to store piles of logs and chips, I was also worried about what would happen if I had a spill of the bio-oil. So about 6 months ago I started that process.

 

Well as you can imagine the DEQ people in Oregon had never heard of a biochar plant. So instead of just responding back with what was required they sent my proposal before there executive committee. (I didn't even there was an executive committee) So after 4 months of waiting to get on there agenda we finally got a reply.

 

It turns out they were not the least bit concerned about a spill but they were worried about leaving a pile of logs or chips behind if the venture was not successful. As you can imagine there are many of these in Oregon and I guess as the wood decomposes there is some environmental damage.

 

So they proposed a testing period where we would pay $500 each six months for the first year. During that period they would monitor our process and see how it was going. If all appears to go well we could get a future permit that would be no charge and called a recycling facility or on the other end of the spectrum have to pay $3000 for a permit and pay $.30 per ton we process. I'm not completely clear on how they would decided. But at least we now know what the costs are worst case.

 

Oregon Land Use Planning Conditional Use Permitt

 

So now that we know what to do to apply for the above DEQ permit they told me that I have to get written notification that the Oregon Land Conservation and Development Commission (LCDC) Zoning rules have been met.

 

So I had to go into my county zoning office and find out if the actual site we are going to put the plant on which is zoned industrial permits this kind of use. Well I found out I meet all the criteria but one. If any gasses (smoke) is produced you have to apply for a conditional use permit. They tell me it will be no problem in this rural area (They are concerned about adding air pollutants mostly in cities) so even though there is a very little that escapes but there is some, I will have to apply for a conditional use permit that the planning committee will have to approve. The problem is that I will have to go before the planning committee and get there approval another couple of months work and time.

 

Federal Department of Environmental Quality Air Permit

 

I knew this requirement was coming because my partner project in Arizona was going though it. I figured I would wait till he was done and had successfully gotten his permit before I applied for mine. His is an experimental plant processing only 1/2 ton of organic matter per day. Our plant will be an operational processing 10 tons of wood per day.

 

So I have to multiply each of the outputs times 20 but there should be not problem since they are very small. I'm just submitting the forms for this application for this permit now.

 

It will be interesting to see if this process goes along faster.

 

Field Testing of Bio Char

 

Our work with Los Alamos is moving ahead in the last few months we have installed 3 paired plots installing approximately 10% charcoal in the top foot of the soil. These will be monitored for growth, water holding capacity and a number of other soil fertility measure. They are installed in pasture land in arid parts of New Mexico to see if there is increased growth. These same conditions have been given early testing in the green house and appear to have good results under controlled conditions. Now we will see how they work in real life on this ranch. They produced the charcoal in a pit method using local logging slash. This experimental ranch will then treat whole pastures if the paired plots are successful.

 

 

Well I see the system logged me out. I was able to capture this but lost some of my work. I'll submit this for now and see if I can get a bit more done at a later date.

 

Thanks

 

Taildragerdriver.

[freeztar]

Good to hear that you are still working on this. Kudos for keeping at it despite all the hoop jumping. It's pretty ironic that you have to get all these env. permits when what you are doing will ultimately help the environment. That's goverment for ya. :D