Do you like sushi?

[Loricybin]

who likes it with raw salmon?

 

i do.

 

i love raw salmon.

i would actually prefer raw salmon or raw tuna to most rolls.

 

i've never tried sushi i didn't like...

(octopus being first in line to make me question this statement,

however, i embrace the awkwardness of it.)

 

now i wish i had some.

thanks guys

;) :beer:

[chilehed]

I especially like uni (sea urchin roe). Yummm...

 

I tried a natto roll once, but it was a bit pungent for my western palate.

[Jay-qu]

Good to hear, I love raw salmon with a bit of avocado :lol:

[hug]

Sushi 24. Morality 15.

[InfiniteNow]

Sushi 24. Morality 15.

 

How can I show you the rationality of this? Hmmm…

 

Survival is contingent on food. Vast percentages of our being surround the acquisition of food, and reward for obtaining it. Individuals who do not have a drive to eat… die.

 

Morality? Perhaps a social or cultural death, but that is much less salient and not so much related to naturally selected tendencies of the individual.

 

Don’t be a one trick pony here, hug. Show the community other interests, or you won’t last long... which is fine, but perhaps not so lively.

 

 

If you try the octopus, don’t go raw. Get little micro baby octopi with a splash of olive oil and herbs and lightly charred over an open flame. You can even serve them on stick, and they're much more tender. Nummy nummy… :lol:

[hug]

InfiniteNow, thanks for your comments. Given that the "morality" poll is not gathering much interest, and given that there are enough results to show the wide diversity of views existing even in a science-interested and science-informed group, I guess it's OK for me to provide a response to your comment that gives a hint as to what I was trying to understand in posting the poll question the way I did.

 

Your mention of survival and selection and so forth, with respect to food, is of course correct. We do need to eat. We don't necessarily need to talk so much about Sushi (though I love Sushi and I am not trying to be critical of the poll itself). I'm trying to understand and seek wisdom, and some truth that corresponds to the latest scientific understandings of human nature.

 

That said, what you mention or suggest about morality, I believe, is not quite as correct. For example, here are a couple of Charles Darwin's quotes, from The Descent of Man (1871):

 

"The following proposition seems to me in a high degree probable -- namely, that any animal whatsoever, endowed with well-marked social instincts, would inevitably acquire a moral sense or conscience, as soon as its intellectual powers had become as well developed, or nearly as well developed, as in man."

 

"The moral sense perhaps affords the best and highest distinction between man and the lower animals; but I need not say anything on this head, as I have so lately endeavoured to shew that the social instincts,-- the prime principle of man's moral constitution -- with the aid of active intellectual powers and the effects of habit, naturally lead to the Golden Rule, 'As ye would that men should do to you, do ye to them likewise;' and this lies at the foundations of morality."

 

Indeed, Darwin wrote that "the first foundation or origin of the moral sense lies in the social instincts, including sympathy; and these instincts no doubt were primarily gained, as in the case of the lower animals, through natural selection." Darwin felt that "our moral sense" is "ultimately a highly complex sentiment" that was "aboriginally derived from the social instincts." He asserted that "the several mental and moral faculties of man have been gradually evolved" according to natural selection and are intimately interrelated.

 

Darwin saw, correctly of course, our moral capacities, sentiments, faculties, and most foundational social-moral tendencies as products of evolution, i.e., natural selection acting upon genetic variation, although Darwin didn't know about the existence of genes or the genetic mechanisms at that point, of course. This view has been supported, explained, and polished by other scientists, including W.D. Hamilton, Richard Dawkins, E.O. Wilson, Robert Trivers, Robert Axelrod, and others.

 

Thus, "morality", at its most foundational level, is just as much a product of natural selection as our need for good food, our sexual drives, our hands, our hearts, and so forth. Indeed, in one sense, it is the social expression and aspect of the products of natural selection. The ultimate foundational "effective" role and function of morality is . . . . survival. (I use the term "survival" here in a gene-and-then-species sense to mean the successful passing of genes into healthy future generations, and through genes, of people, and families and groups and ultimately the human species.) Ideally, given our ability to understand time (somewhat), and our recent knowledge that we are all, indeed, members of the same family (descended from the same small group of early humans that lived in Africa between 150,000 and 250,000 years ago, roughly), we should -- we really should -- strive for the sustainable survival of the human species, the sustainable survival of biological diversity (which, in any case, is relatively necessary for our own survival and health), and the sustainable protection of a healthy planet.

 

In other words, morality is, most foundationally and ultimately, "about" survival. In fact, the statement "morality is 'about' survival" is the modern species-wide equivalent to Heraclitus's wise statement, made over 2,400 years ago, that "Character is destiny."

 

(One fun way to begin to think about this is to watch the movies "Children of Men" and "Babel")

 

Now, in that context, look at the morality poll results so far. They are all over the map. That reflects, imprecisely of course, the fragmentation and misunderstanding of "morality" that exists in the broad public today.

 

I worded the poll question as I did for a very specific reason (much of my background is market research), because I wanted to learn something without making the question so clear as to force too much thinking, thinking which generally does not occur much (about the ultimate "reason for being" of "morality" from a scientific standpoint, that is) in the general population.

 

So, to be honest, given your comment, I'm not really sure where that leaves me in terms of the social aspects here? There was a song I think, with the lyric, "do I stay or do I leave?" (I wish I could remember the writer to provide appropriate credit, but I can't remember right now.) I guess that depends on whether enough people want to have an interesting, science-informed, state-of-the-art (pretty much) discussion of morality from a scientific standpoint. If so, great. If not, then I'll limit my participation to the Talking Circle thread that coberst so insightfully started.

 

I'll end this post with several quotes from some scientists, philosophers, and others, and then a few last comments . . .

 

"It is all too evident that our moral thinking simply has not been able to keep pace with the speed of scientific advancement." -- The Dalai Lama

 

"Perfection of means and confusion of goals seem, in my opinion, to characterize our age." -- Albert Einstein

 

"The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants." -- Omar Bradley

 

"The means by which we live have outdistanced the ends for which we live. Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." -- Martin Luther King Jr.

 

"The most important human endeavor is the striving for morality in our actions. Our inner balance and even our very existence depend on it. Only morality in our actions can give beauty and dignity to life" -- Albert Einstein

 

In sum, morality and our need for food are both products of natural selection acting upon genetic variation (as well as of other natural dynamics). Of course, "morality" in the fullest sense also reflects gene-environment interaction (genes can't do much of anything without environments), and in many of its particulars reflects recent and current cultural influences as well. But, although (again) I love Sushi, and I think the Sushi poll is fun, and I'm not trying to be negative in any way about it, nevertheless, from the standpoint of learning, the following can be said: A science-based understanding of morality will ultimately help us address things like global climate change, Darfur, health care, growing income disparity, and so forth. Sushi habits will not do those things.

 

I'm hoping that this post is OK and doesn't ruffle: I'm merely trying to advance the understanding of morality, learn in the process, and, I guess, I am also reacting to some comments in the recent post. Anyhow, I hope this is interesting?

 

Cheers. "hug"

[Buffy]

If I were to open a sushi restaurant, I think I'd call it "Existential Sushi"....

 

Unagi and angst,

Buffy

[Jay-qu]

I'm hoping that this post is OK and doesn't ruffle:

 

Cheers. "hug"

 

Well for one it doesnt really belong in a thread about sushi..

[InfiniteNow]

InfiniteNow, thanks for your comments.

My pleasure. :)

 

Given that the "morality" poll is not gathering much interest, and given that there are enough results to show the wide diversity of views existing even in a science-interested and science-informed group, I guess it's OK for me to provide a response to your comment that gives a hint as to what I was trying to understand in posting the poll question the way I did.

I was trying to nudge you gently into an understanding that your question had no relevance to the thread in which it was posted. You've recently opened a bunch of morality themed threads, so I advise you to focus your efforts on furthering these discussions there. I encourage you to share your reasons and the observations you've posted here in the sushi poll thread specifically in your own poll thread on morality.

 

I'm not very good at being gentle, so I'll be speak more plainly. The lack of alignment here is entirely my fault. Please accept my apologies.

 

Your mention of survival and selection and so forth, with respect to food, is of course correct.

Thanks. However, how does this have anything to do with the question posed by the originator of this poll whether or not I like sushi?

 

We don't necessarily need to talk so much about Sushi

Actually, that is false. This thread is entirely about sushi, or more specifically, a poll on how many members do and do not like it.

 

(though I love Sushi and I am not trying to be critical of the poll itself).

This is the first thread appropriate comment you've made. :)

 

I'm trying to understand and seek wisdom, and some truth that corresponds to the latest scientific understandings of human nature.

And I commend you for it, but what does that have to do with whether or not you like sushi?

 

That said, what you mention or suggest about morality, I believe, is not quite as correct...

That's great, but this thread is not the place. What you are doing is known as "hijacking" the thread. You've opened threads on morality, and I can tell you are disheartened by the lack of participation in those. However, it's up to you to generate interest IN THOSE THREADS, or conversely accept that your topic didn't spark a fury of dialog and continue exploring your interests individually until others become more engaged.

 

I'm hoping that this post is OK and doesn't ruffle: I'm merely trying to advance the understanding of morality, learn in the process"

Again, I commend you for it. But you're a bit like a person in a gardening class trying to get everyone to instead discuss quantum entanglement. There's a time and a place, and it's disrespectful to the original poster, the staff, and the membership to insert your own interests into every thread, especially when thread-specific topic relevance is missing.

 

 

Does squid get served raw? I've only had it fried as "calamari." Also, I'm curious how many people have sake with their sushi, but perhaps that should be asked in a different thread or poll?

 

 

Cheers.

 

 

You can separate the sharp personality'd member from the staff, but you can't separate the personality from the member.

[hug]

InfiniteNow: I understand your comments. But, in the future, when your intention is to give gentle nudges (which is a good and understandable intention, and can be very helpful), please consider whether they are best given, even gently, via private communication. A substantial part of my experience of this situation is the fact that a person with over 5,800 posts, and a rep power of 817, and a screen i.d. that also includes a reference to peace, chose to write the post that you wrote, in the way you wrote it, in the public forum. I would be providing this feedback privately if your recent posts, especially the last one, did not seem to call for a response here, so that I don't just disappear without explanation. Although I don't know how to use them yet to reach specific members other than moderators (I'm a newcomer here), I think there is a such thing as a private message. I would have much appreciated your initial gentle nudge in a PM. If you don't know how to use PMs, or if my i.d. is not on the list for some reason, then Buffy knows how to send PMs. In the future, when newcomers come and make a few mistakes, please let Buffy know, and she can provide guidance to them gently and privately. Thanks.

 

In any case, I will hopefully end this dialogue with two comments. One is that I do like Sushi and I sincerely apologize for disrupting the Sushi thread. The other is that, mainly for reasons of time and energy and other priorities, I will focus my posts on this site going forward on one thread, Talking Circles, which is a great idea of coberst's and should provide some learning. If anyone wants to learn more about my views on morality from a scientific and philosophical standpoint, I'll make sure that one of the moderators (probably Buffy) has my website address, and anyone interested can reach me there.

 

I hope this helps, and sorry again for the distraction. Bye. "hug"

[Queso]

s'all good.

pass the wasabi.

[Queso]

I'm going sushi ingredient shopping.

Give me some suggestions.

[InfiniteNow]

I'm going sushi ingredient shopping.

Give me some suggestions.

 

Well, since you said "please..." I'll help you out. You should probably get some fish. Maybe some rice and vinegar as well.

 

 

Perhaps some cucumber. Avocado. Sprouts. Sesame seeds. Siracha chili sauce. Mango. Radishes. Whatever looks fresh and cool in the produce area.

 

Oh, don't forget the Sake...

[Queso]

Well I have the basics! Got the avocate, cucumber, sesame seeds, rice vineger, sushi rice, salmon, soy sauce, wasabi, and sea weed.

 

Mango sounds awesome, and so do radishes. "Thank you"

 

Sake is good but....definitely not drinking it anytime soon.

 

I have no idea what Siracha chili sauce is, but it sounds spicey, and I like spicey...LOVE IT.

 

Do you know what they use to make "Mexican" rolls?

I know there's friend shrimp (mmmm)

there's some sauce they put on there that blows my mind every time I taste it...

 

I must master the mexican roll technique. California roll down. Chya!

[InfiniteNow]

I have no idea what Siracha chili sauce is, but it sounds spicey, and I like spicey...LOVE IT.

When I was in college and we would go get Pho (like a Vietnamese soup), it was everywhere and we called it "Red Hot Cock Sauce" because of the label. I still put it on nearly everything.

Sriracha Chili Sauce

 

 

Do you know what they use to make "Mexican" rolls?

I know there's friend shrimp (mmmm)

there's some sauce they put on there that blows my mind every time I taste it...

I've never heard of such a thing, and it's very possible that this is some local term applied to a locally designed sushi roll. By the sound of it, it either has jalepeno and/or chipotle (mmm... you could make a chipotle mayonaise and add that... yum), or perhaps tortilla strips. Again, I've never heard of them though.

 

Could be as if you went to a sushi shop called "Existential sushi" and they had something called an "existential roll." Not necessarily a common roll across the country.

 

Now, chipotle mayonaise, bluefin tuna, a thin strip of celery and mango, rice, and mexican oregano, all covered in crushed corn tortilla shells. I think that would be wonderful.

[Queso]

those were some stellar suggestions...

now I've got the munchies.

[DougF]

I've never tried sushi thought about it once or twice but after reading the thread I think I'll try some, you make it sound So good!