Dusty observation

[freeztar]

I fail to see why not.

You can elaborate some other time.

I'll be here all week. :)

Looking forward to it, for sure.

 

I'm still up...sooooo...

 

You have to consider the tools used for analysis. An oscilloscope will measure every nuance of the waveform produced. With computer-aided tools you can see millisecond portions of the waveform. To see the differences I describe, do a simple experiment. Record yourself striking the low-E string 3 times and try to be as consistent as possible in regards to volume and attack. Now align the waveforms, if they are not already, and zoom in. How do the waveforms compare? Quite different, eh?

 

Now, push those tracks through an FFT. How do they vary?

 

If you actually perform these steps, you will see the difficulty. ;)

[Queso]

I see where you are going with the waveforms.

In pro tools I can zoom in very very far and see the phase of the waveform.

This isn't really a good way to detect what we are trying to detect, here, unless with our ears, so....

What's an FFT? I might have one. If not. I can find one.

[freeztar]

FFT

Fast Fourier Transform

[Queso]

:confused:

I think that FFT is beyond orbsycli.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Hey Orbsy!!

I'm with you man. Of course having invested a large portion of my life to sorting out the variables of accustic instrument tonality I firmly believe your ears are right. As rossin sheds from my bow and collects on the belly and strings of my cello I note a subtle change in the sound quality that progressively worsens untill I must stop and clean them up or go mad!!!

 

The amount of effect is proportional to the amount of dust, sand stickers etc.

 

You will find none of these things on any of my accoustic instruments.

 

Feeling and knowing are different. An Alvarez would be just as sensitive as a Les Paul.

Nope sorry dude...His alvarez is a hollow body it relies heavy on the vibrations of it's body to amplify and produce sound. Les pauls are solid bodied and rely on pickups and an amplifier rather than the body to amplify the string vibrations. Accoustics (hollow bodies) are affected by damn near everything humidity or lack thereof, dust, heat, cold, even how they are held. A little side note the better the instrument the more dramatic the effect.

[freeztar]

Hey Orbsy!!

I'm with you man. Of course having invested a large portion of my life to sorting out the variables of accustic instrument tonality I firmly believe your ears are right. As rossin sheds from my bow and collects on the belly and strings of my cello I note a subtle change in the sound quality that progressively worsens untill I must stop and clean them up or go mad!!!

The amount of effect is proportional to the amount of dust, sand stickers etc.

 

Proof...I WANT PROOF!! :)

 

His alvarez is a hollow body it relies heavy on the vibrations of it's body to amplify and produce sound. Les pauls are solid bodied and rely on pickups and an amplifier rather than the body to amplify the string vibrations.

 

While I can agree with "dust" affecting acoustic instruments more, it is naive to assume that solid-body guits do not affect the sound. Choice of wood, total mass, and design are factors of the final ("original") sound. The pickups on electrical guitars are merely "interpreters" for the resonance of the body.

 

Accoustics (hollow bodies) are affected by damn near everything humidity or lack thereof, dust, heat, cold, even how they are held. A little side note the better the instrument the more dramatic the effect.

 

What do you mean by the better the instrument the more dramatic effect?

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

What do you mean by the better the instrument the more dramatic effect?

I mean the better the instrument the more dramatic the effect.

The best made accoustic instruments are made to MUCH higher standards

They sound alot sweeter when in their Ideal environment (just the right amount of humidity and warmth) they are very precisely carved to resonate as perfectly as their aged tonewoods can. Everything down to the choice of glue, finish, and purfeling are carefully taken into account as to their effect on the final tonal quality of the instrument. At this point note that lesser instruments tend to be of lower quality, and as often as not made out of laminated wood which is less effected.

 

Members of the violin family are extremely finicky with respect to environmental effects requiring is seperate bridges, sound posts, even different rossins, strings, and bows to get through large changes in climate. And again laminated models just sound rather crummy to begin with and therefore the effect is less noticable.

 

This thread reminds me of the laminate cello vs real wood cello debate as well as the age old debate of the older the instrument the better the sound.

And the gut vs steel string vs synthetic debate.

 

It all comes down to how well trained are your ears.

Can you pick out which brand of guitar a guitarist is playing using your ears alone?....pickup manufacturer?..how about which brand of amp?...type of pick?...strings? Can you tell the difference in the sound of a Squire Strat vs a genuine Fender Strat (believe me there is a BIG difference)?

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

By the way ever tried to jam with a solid bodied electric minus the amp?

It's a hell of alot quieter ain't it! It most deffinitly would not hold it's own against a hollow body. The acustic is all about moving air in a speaker like manner. This requires that the body resonate as freely as possible meaning any extra mass takes away from the ability of the body to function as it was intended to. Whereas a solid body only need produce enough resonance for the pickups to generate a few mili-volts. All an electrics body is for is to shape tonality, look cool, and support the bridge and pickups.

 

I Routed out my Strat to allow for three humbuckers and there is no real difference in tone with the exception of the middle humbucker which sounds sweet. BUT My Johnson acustic deffinately sounds different since I glued two transducers in its belly below the bridge...A small tonal sacrifice for decibels and recording capability (mics are expencive and quiet is rare in my household).