Turtle Posted May 26, 2007 Author Report Posted May 26, 2007 Wow. I think you may have nailed one there Turtle! Good Job! I think I soiled myself! :fly: Here's simple coordinates that put you in the interior of this thing for your favorite maps. 27º N107º W If you save the image and then load it into drawing software, you can play with the lighting and see more features. I found one geology of Mexico site, but it's all for sale only. I'm on the hunt & will return with prey. Gotta change my drawers. PS At 135 kilometers, my crater is only sligthly smaller than Chicxulub the 'dinosaur killer' at 170 kilometers.North America Quote
Turtle Posted May 26, 2007 Author Report Posted May 26, 2007 The statistical data indicates that particular formation is a volcanic caldera, with associated active 'Gualay Agua Caliente', volcanic hot springs. Gualay is an ancient term for 'Geiser', or a hot water geiser. There is a possibility that these are Calderas. The Terra Calderas range in size from 35-100 km in diameter. The largest Terra Caldera I could find is the Toba Caldera in Indonesia, which measures 100 x 35 km. Toba Caldera in Indonesia (GPS): 2.60 N, 98.80 E However, the 'Cráter Grande del la Madre' diameter is larger than any caldera on Terra, therefore this is confirmed to be an asteroid impact crater. (Big Momma Crater), Caldera?Cráter Grande del la Madre (GPS): 27.216 N, 107.13 W Diameter: 131.61 kmDiscoverer: Turtle (Hypography: Science for everyone)Discovery Date: 05-26-07, 03:51 PMAsteroid impactor diameter: > 5 kmExtinction Level Event? (ELE) Reference:Calderas - World's Largest Calderas Sweet Lambus! First, may I suggest Tortuga Jorge Cráter. :hihi: I found one source talking about the geology, but on the trail of the obsidian trade not meteors. Still, it gives some rock type info. >> The Silicic Geology of Northwest Mexico The above source says of the area NW of Tortuga Jorge (:D )... Most of the rhyolite volcanism in the region occurred between 36 and 27 million years ago and is now overlain by 29 to 17 million year old basalt related to crustal extension and Rio Grande rifting (Albrecht et al. 1990; Cameron et al. 1980; Gunderson et al. 1986; McDowell and Mauger 1994) If this is an impact crater older than that (possibly a part of the Chicxulub event?), then the fill-in we see may just be the result of later volcanism. In the general thread on impact craters, I speculated that a large impact may trigger/activate volcanic hotspots. Wounds that never heal so to speak. We better look for shocked quartz when we get down there too. Caldera, impact site, or both, this definitely has the potential of an ELE. When can you guys be packed? :cup: Quote
Cedars Posted May 26, 2007 Report Posted May 26, 2007 Ok another day wasted cuz you sparked my imagination Turtle! But I got one for you to check out. 44.25 N and 91.26 W. Its huge. If you use googleEarth and zoom in until the markers for Eau Claire Wisc and Winona MN show up, these two cities border the edge of this circle. I did a bit of searching and this one is in the Driftless Area, meaning it was not glaciated during the last Ice Age. On the map I linked to in the other thread, it shows a meteor impact just west of this one and there are some articles on it. But thats not the circle here. Heres a satellite image that shows it even better:Wisconsin Satellite Images - Satellite Photo Map - GEOLOGY.COMHmm and you can see it on the same sites Minnesota satellite image. The rounded lake straight south west of the tip of Lake Superior is Lake Millacs. That lake is 26 miles long or wide (I forget). Minnesota Satellite Images - Satellite Photo Map - GEOLOGY.COM Quote
Turtle Posted May 27, 2007 Author Report Posted May 27, 2007 Ok another day wasted cuz you sparked my imagination Turtle! Just doin' mah job! :turtle: But I got one for you to check out. 44.25 N and 91.26 W. Its huge. If you use googleEarth and zoom in until the markers for Eau Claire Wisc and Winona MN show up, these two cities border the edge of this circle. Nice! But, uh...I see at least 2 craters there and possibly 3! Sweet holes in the ground Betty!!! I added red arrows to a Google map screen shot & attached it below. possibly a part of the Chicxulub event? Affirmative, this geology would place the age of the Cráter del Tortuga Jorge at around 65 Million years old. Bien! So perhaps we have an event akin to Shoemaker-Levy hitting Jupiter!! I e-mailed USGS with the new find; can't expect to hear from anybody until at least Monday I think. :hihi: I drew a line through Chicxulub Cráter & Cráter del Tortuga Jorge, and it looks like maybe another crater on that line at about >> 24º 24' 54" N 98º 41' 20" W Quote
Cedars Posted May 27, 2007 Report Posted May 27, 2007 Eau Claire Crater (GPS): 44.45 N, 91.45 WCrater Diameter: 97.48 x 87.85 kmDiscoverer: Cedars (Hypography: Science for everyone)Discovery Date: 05-26-2007, 05:49 PMAsteroid impactor diameter: 10 kmEstimated age: 65 Million years?Extinction Level Event? (ELE) Crater within Aleksandrovka Krater:Boltysh Crater (GPS): 48.85 N, 32.2 E (minor crator)Crater Diameter: 24 kmEstimated age: 65.17±0.64 million years I like that Lambus Is there a reason why you put the age where you did? Just west and south there are areas of very old rock exposed. 3.1 billion years old if I remember right, somewhere between the Mississippi and Rochester MN. I was thinking that crater (if thats what it is) is very very old. Quote
Cedars Posted May 27, 2007 Report Posted May 27, 2007 Just doin' mah job! :turtle: Nice! But, uh...I see at least 2 craters there and possibly 3! Sweet holes in the ground Betty!!! I added red arrows to a Google map screen shot & attached it below. I saw the 2nd one but thought to stick with what shows up on the satellite. The 3rd below I didnt see so I havent checked to see if theres an elevation variable there. Quote
Cedars Posted May 27, 2007 Report Posted May 27, 2007 Affirmative, there are no recorded Terra impacts older than 2 billion years old in my entire Terra impact record. The oldest impact crater is The Vredefort Dome, the largest and oldest clearly-visible meteor impact structure. The Vredefort Dome (GPS): -27 S, 27.49 EEstimated age: 2023±4 million years (2 billion years)Crater Diameter: 300 km Eau Claire Crater (GPS): 44.45 N, 91.45 WCrater Diameter: 97.48 x 87.85 kmDiscoverer: Cedars (Hypography: Science for everyone)Estimated age: unknown, (currently awaiting Cedars report) Cráter del Tortuga Jorge (GPS): 27.216 N, 107.13 W (caldera?)Diameter: 131.61 kmDiscoverer: Turtle (Hypography: Science for everyone)Estimated age: 65 Million years(Albrecht et al. 1990; Cameron et al. 1980; Gunderson et al. 1986; McDowell and Mauger 1994) Aleksandrovka Krater (GPS): 48.9 N, 31.8 E (major crater)Crater Diameter: 113.47 x 94.88 kmDiscoverer: Lambus (Hypography: Science for everyone)Estimated age: 65.17±0.64 million years Chicxulub Crater (GPS): 21.06 N, 90.2 WDiameter: 180 kmDiscoverer: Penfield (PEMEX)Estimated age: 64.98±0.05 million years The crater global proximity, diameter and surface erosion corresponds best to the Chicxulub event era. As a postulate I proposed that age for a possible 'Chicxulub several impacts theory'. It is highly improbable that a crater would be visible from the surface after 700 million years, due to erosion and other geologic processes. OK that makes sense. Thanks. Probably someone has determined that the one I posted is something else. I havent had time to really search around the net for "what isnt an impact site and why" pages. Quote
Turtle Posted May 27, 2007 Author Report Posted May 27, 2007 OK that makes sense. Thanks. Probably someone has determined that the one I posted is something else. I havent had time to really search around the net for "what isnt an impact site and why" pages. :Guns: No no no! Probably, no one has seen it before at all. Stick with your gut & guns on this Cedars; write an e-mail to USGS or your favorite 'authority' figures on the topic, and ask. This phenom of regular folk finding impacts is entirely new with the advent of these freely available satellite maps, and we are pioneers in this. While you're at it with your note, ask about a list of 'other' explanations for particular circular features. If they don't have one, tell them how many fewer e-mails they have to answer if 'they' had such a list. :hihi: Lambus said...Affirmative, there are no recorded Terra impacts older than 2 billion years old in my entire Terra impact record. The oldest impact crater is The Vredefort Dome, the largest and oldest clearly-visible meteor impact structure... Again, finding these sites is only now blooming, and one has only to look to the Moon to know what a target Earth is. Challenge the words 'no recorded', clearly visible', and 'my entire record', as they carry a false impression of authority that is questionable. One explanation for why older impacts may survive, is that if they were covered over by volcanism or other sedimentation before they eroded away, then at a later date those covering layers erode and the feature may re-emerge. This holds in general, and I put it forward as an explanation for the condition of the sites I found in Mexico. No replies yet for me from 'officials' I sent the discovery info to, and now I realize that Monday is a holiday in US so I can't hope to hear back 'til Tuesday at the earliest. :cup: :D PS Hey Lambus. When did you find this one? We ought possibly include the date of the discoveries in your list.Aleksandrovka Krater (GPS): 48.9 N, 31.8 E (major crater)Crater Diameter: 113.47 x 94.88 kmDiscoverer: Lambus (Hypography: Science for everyone)Estimated age: 65.17±0.64 million years I see faint spokes there too, but that may be an artifact of how the images are stitched together. :shrug: Have others confirmed it from the ground? Quote
Turtle Posted May 28, 2007 Author Report Posted May 28, 2007 Affirmative, the discovery date was already recorded in post#22, which also included a thumbnail to my Google Earth photo of the Aleksandrovka Krater. Discovery Date: 05-26-2007, 07:00 PM http://hypography.com/forums/175847-post22.html Aleksandrovka Krater (GPS): 48.9 N, 31.8 E (major crater)Crater Diameter: 113.47 x 94.88 kmDiscoverer: Lambus (Hypography: Science for everyone)Discovery Date: 05-26-2007, 07:00 PMAsteroid impactor diameter: >10 kmEstimated age: 65.17±0.64 million yearsExtinction Level Event? (ELE) Crater within Aleksandrovka Krater:Boltysh Crater (GPS): 48.85 N, 32.2 E (minor crator)Crater Diameter: 24 kmEstimated age: 65.17±0.64 million years The Boltysh Crater (minor crator) within Aleksandrovka Krater (major crater) has been confirmed from the ground and dated, however, the Aleksandrovka Krater, has not yet been confirmed. Roger. Did you do the ground work? Who do you report your finds to? Tell me (us?) everything you can. I loooove this stuff! I took a screen shot of Aleksandrovka from the NASA World Wind maps and put it in the Science Gallery; click image below for enlarged view in separate window. >>> Quote
Cedars Posted May 28, 2007 Report Posted May 28, 2007 No no no! Probably, no one has seen it before at all. Stick with your gut & guns on this Cedars; write an e-mail to USGS or your favorite 'authority' figures on the topic, and ask. Right now, you two are my favorite authority figures on the topic :Guns: Negative, Cedars. It is more probable that your Eau Claire Crater site is in fact a impact crater that has never been discovered before. Most of the Terra impact sites have been discovered from the ground by the use of geological imformation, mainly from core drilling and oil exploration. However, satellite maps now offer the opportunity to discover large-scale structures that are not easily observable from the ground or even an aircraft. Yeah, true. Probably millions of persons have seen it and think its already documented. A question. There is an impact confirmed nearby and the discovery was first due to a student noticing rock formation glitches. I believe its called rock elm impact. Heres a page on it: Local Asteroid Impact Now the question part. If what I noted is an impact crater, and via the close proximity to Rock elm, is it possible that the formations they are seeing there are really the blowback from the bigger impact? and the features they note for Rock elm are actually side effects from this bigger hit? Quote
Turtle Posted May 28, 2007 Author Report Posted May 28, 2007 Right now, you two are my favorite authority figures on the topic ;) :shrug: Sweeeet! A question. There is an impact confirmed nearby and the discovery was first due to a student noticing rock formation glitches. I believe its called rock elm impact. Heres a page on it: Local Asteroid Impact Now the question part. If what I noted is an impact crater, and via the close proximity to Rock elm, is it possible that the formations they are seeing there are really the blowback from the bigger impact? and the features they note for Rock elm are actually side effects from this bigger hit? No real effect called 'blowback' in the sense you seem to suggest. A single large impact will vaporize a lot of rock and throw debris high into atmosphere, but even a big piece falling back wouldn't have the velocity needed to make a big crater itself. (The Chicxsulub rock that hit Yucatan is estimated to have been 6 miles across and going over 16,000 mph) The likely explanation for multiple craters is multiple big rocks traveling together and that originated from a single larger object. Comet Shoemaker-Levy was in over 20 pieces when it started pelting into Jupiter. My speculation for all these +-65 million year old impact sites is that Jupiter may have broken up a comet and shot the bits at Earth rather than capturing them like Shoemaker-Levy. Earth's gravity is too small and the objects going too fast for it to break up a big object. I think break-up for a big rock due to atmospheric drag would be minimal because the time between entry & impact is very short. I did a little extrapolation for Crater del Tortuga Jorge using Chicxulub as the model. At Chicxulub, a 6 mile rock made a 170+ km crater, so Tortuga Jorge at 130+ kilometers may have been a 4 mile diameter rock. :D Gotta give over this machine to the rightful owner now. More later. :cup: :) Quote
Turtle Posted May 29, 2007 Author Report Posted May 29, 2007 I joined Google Earth Community as TortugaJorge, and I'm on the steep climb of the learning curve. While working out how to post my find, I found some other GEC (Google Earth Community) members have noted verified meteorite finds right near Crater del Tortuga Jorge. Location: 27º 55' 44.9" N 107º 02' 56.96" W According to this source, these are 2 of only 24 known meteorite finds in Chihuahua, Mexico. Meteoritical Bulletin: Entry for Carichic Coincidence? :shrug: Anyway, I hope to start hearing tomorrow from folks I contacted. Already, if you Google Crater del Tortuga Jorge, Hypog comes up on top. :) :D ;) Quote
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