2 new elments discovered in 2004 ?

[maddog]

Anybody aware of what two new elments discovered in 2004 ? I learned about it on the

Science channel. I am curious. I learned they were able to do this by banging some

Americium isotope with Calcium nucleus. Also mentioned is that a stable island around a

Z ~ 130 or so. Neat stuff! :Alien:

 

Maddog

[Tim_Lou]

Do you mean element 115 and 113?

new from this website:

http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/8/2/1/1

 

Im a bit skeptical though:

"Although the team is confident of its results, it agrees that the new elements will require independent confirmation before finally being accepted. The discoveries will be subject to close scrutiny, especially given the recent scandal over element 118. In 2002, the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab in the US sacked a physicist after it found that he had fabricated data purporting to show the existence of this element. Claims that the element had been discovered were subsequently withdrawn."

it might have been another made up report... but who knows.

[maddog]

Thanks, Tim -- I didn't know which elements they were. I'm going hunting for more info.

I have not been aware of any new element beyon 105. How long have I had my head in

the sand.... :)

 

Re: Element 115 and 113 do we know if a new orbital is required beyond the F shell ? I

have to look at a periodic table. Also how many neutrons beyond 115, huh ? Curious.

 

...especially given the recent scandal over element 118. In 2002, the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab in the US sacked a physicist after it found that he had fabricated data purporting to show the existence of this element. Claims that the element had been discovered were subsequently withdrawn."

 

I didn't know stuff like that have been going on. Pfshaw, Phshaw!! :)

 

Maddog

[ImZ]

What about element 110....is it discovered yet?

[Tormod]

What about element 110....is it discovered yet?

http://pearl1.lanl.gov/periodic/elements/110.html

 

November 9, 1994 at 4:39 pm, the first atom with atomic number 110 was detected at the Gesellschaft fur Schwerionenforschung (GSI) in Darmstadt, in Germany. For the last ten years, this element has been the subject of an intense search by many laboratories world-wide.

[maddog]

I found a neat website on all the new developments.

 

webelements.com :)

 

I see that were 118 to be found (and not faked) that it would completed that valence shell.

 

I am still curious what the next orbital would look like ...? Hmmm. :)

 

Maddog

[BlameTheEx]

What is the fascination of elements that have a half life of milliseconds? They can have no commercial use and their properties don't lead to any useful breakthroughs in understanding.

[maddog]

What is the fascination of elements that have a half life of milliseconds? They can have no commercial use and their properties don't lead to any useful breakthroughs in understanding.

 

Totally NOT TRUE. Try pushing a few atoms past .9c. Second, nobody has considered the

possibility of creating such short time element in a cooling vessel. Third not all transuranic

elements are thought to have such short half-life. The prevailing theory (maybe a hope) is

that there is a stable island of elements with half-life measure in years instead of the usual microseconds time frame. :)

 

Maddog

 

ps: Fourth, somepeople just gotta' know for no good reason. :)

[Tim_Lou]

at least that we have a idea that a certain element exists...... if it exists, there would probably be some stable isotopes of that elements that have longer half lives.

[BlameTheEx]

Totally NOT TRUE. Try pushing a few atoms past .9c.

Do you really expect to time dilate atoms into usefulness? So milliseconds are stretched to 10's of milliseconds. But to what end?

 

Second, nobody has considered the possibility of creating such short time element in a cooling vessel.

And if they do, to what end? half life is not affected by temperature.

 

Third not all transuranic elements are thought to have such short half-life. The prevailing theory (maybe a hope) is that there is a stable island of elements with half-life measure in years instead of the usual microseconds time frame.

A hope that is vanishingly small. If they could exist, we would have them by now

 

at least that we have a idea that a certain element exists...... if it exists, there would probably be some stable isotopes of that elements that have longer half lives.

My apologies for not making my meaning clear. The most stable isotopes have half lives of milliseconds. The rest are worse!

[Tim_Lou]

Not really: Uut = Ununtrium, element 113

284113Uut --> 279111Uuu + 42He (1196 milliseconds)

 

1196 milliseconds! which is 1.196 seconds.

from http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Uut/key.html

[Tim_Lou]

at least their half-lives are higher than that of muons:

2.2 microseconds :hihi: wait... its measured in microseconds.... so it would be

2.2 * 10^ -3 milliseconds

from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon

 

charged pions' are even worse!

2.6 × 10−5 milliseconds

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pion

[BlameTheEx]

Not really: Uut = Ununtrium, element 113

284113Uut --> 279111Uuu + 42He (1196 milliseconds)

 

1196 milliseconds! which is 1.196 seconds.

from http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Uut/key.html

 

Wow! More than a second! But still, where are the commercial properties? It is far too short lived to be used in chemistry. Too short lived to be used as a nuclear fuel.

 

The only real benefit is to increase our understanding of how atoms are put together, but we already have good knowledge of many, and it still hasn't helped much.

 

I am going to be a heretic here (but then ain't I always?). I think particle physics has got just about all the useful data it is going to get. What we need is not more exotic atoms, or higher energy particles, but somebody bright enough to put all the clues together and come up with a solution.

 

There are computers powerful enough to deduce the properties of particles and atoms IF they were programed with a complete and accurate description of the fundamental forces involved.

 

Something binds protons and neutrons together to form atoms. I see no reason why that binding force should be any more complicated, in terms of its fundamental nature, than gravity or electromagnetism. It is just complex in operation.

[Tim_Lou]

yeah, there is no commerical purpose... the amount of element produced is so limited.

 

anyway, it will be cool to see a new period on the periodic table...

 

in period 8th, the electrons might fill the sublevel s, then.... will period 8 have p sublevel? or is the electron gonna fill the f, d or....hmmm, the answer will come once the scientists hit period 8 :hihi:

[maddog]

Do you really expect to time dilate atoms into usefulness? So milliseconds are stretched to 10's of milliseconds. But to what end?

 

Muons are create from upper atmosphere by cosmic rays. If it wern't for time dilation they

would get farther than 684 or feet ! Can this be comercially harnessed. If I knew, I'd be

doing it. If you don't consider, then nothing will get discovered.

 

 

A hope that is vanishingly small. If they could exist, we would have them by now

 

You seem to have out of date info or your looking at the glass half empty. I just read how

they are creating these new round discoveries. The scientist are speaking about an island

around 130. Of course I must admit that many years earlier when 105 was found, it was

thought that the island would be around 118. Still have to look, don't we ? :hihi:

 

Maddog

[maddog]

Not really: Uut = Ununtrium, element 113

284113Uut --> 279111Uuu + 42He (1196 milliseconds)

 

1196 milliseconds! which is 1.196 seconds.

from http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Uut/key.html

 

I noticed those names on the website. Can't they come up with better temporary naming

convention ? :hihi:

 

Maddog

[Tim_Lou]

it has to go through the IUPAC first.

website: http://www.iupac.org/index_to.html

I agree, these names are in fact weird... hard to memorize. They should just assign them like A, B, C, Aa, Ab, Ac... but the problem is that some european countries might not want em in english.