Do You Own a Gun ??

[CraigD]

I'm not sure how much of this is accurate but does any one know if the part about Australia has any truth to it?

 

While the following has an obvious slant to it, it definitley is thought provoking.

What's the source of this data?

[Zythryn]

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million

 

Not only slanted, but misleading, possibly dishonest. So WWII would not have happened if Germany had not banned guns? Every one of the victims in all of the above times would have been armed if they had the choice??

[Moontanman]

Not only slanted, but misleading, possibly dishonest. So WWII would not have happened if Germany had not banned guns? Every one of the victims in all of the above times would have been armed if they had the choice??

 

yes no doubt both slanted and misleading, both sides of the gun debate are guilty of out right lies to prove thier points. I was wondering if anyone could say anything about the part about Australia.

[Moontanman]

What's the source of this data?

 

I'm not sure I would call this Data, propaganda is probably more accurate. It was sent to me by various Gun advocacy groups. I was wondering if anyone could confirm any of the part about Australia. If I have stepped out of line by posting this I am sorry, I get so much of this stuff I seldom think of it as true or false. Just another attempt to mislead people about something that is much less complex and much more emotional and totally personal.

[JackOfTraDeZ]

Yeah - more than I need and less than I want. You gotta problem with that? And what's a politico queshun like this doing in a science forum?

[Moontanman]

Not only slanted, but misleading, possibly dishonest. So WWII would not have happened if Germany had not banned guns? Every one of the victims in all of the above times would have been armed if they had the choice??

 

Believe it or not many people do see the banning and confiscation of guns by Germany as being the beginning of the war. A friend of mine who was from Latvia once told me the very same thing. According to him the first thing the NAZI's did when they moved into a country that had gun control was to get the list of people who had guns and go in and take them immediately before they had time to organize or do anything else.

 

He was rabidly against any sort of gun control or even registration. He claimed to have seen the "Evil" of gun control first hand. In his mind the main reason a citizen should have a gun was to fight the government if it became necessary. He was part of the resistance during the war and he knew what he was talking about to a great extent. I'm sure his experiences as a teenage resistance agent colored his ideas about government but I share at least a little of his apprehension of the power of government.

 

I'm not exactly sure an armed uprising in Germany or any of the countries they took over would have changed the course or out come of the war but if the right people had risen up early enough something might have changed but in this day and age an armed uprising against any really well armed government would be a fools errand at best.

 

While I am satisfied with my shotgun for home protection I do have friends that have enough guns and ammo to fight off the local government for several days if they wanted to but in the end it wouldn't make any difference here in the US. Here you are better off to allow the government to come in and make a fool of themselves. If you give them all the rope they want they will make bad legal mistakes every time and if you are really innocent you have a good chance of coming out much richer than you went into the situation.

 

The feds are a different story, if they get it in their combined heads you are dangerous you are usually in trouble big time. If you happen to be guilty as well you had better shoot yourself or give yourself up to avoid innocents from being hurt because the feds won't give up or worry about hurting you.

[DougF]

Moontanman

I'm not sure how much of this is accurate but does any one know if the part about Australia has any truth to it?

 

 

 

 

 

See the post I left (#37 This thread) I don't think it true, but it is food for thought.:clock:

[Moontanman]

Moontanman

I'm not sure how much of this is accurate but does any one know if the part about Australia has any truth to it?

 

See the post I left (#37 This thread) I don't think it true, but it is food for thought.:clock:

 

I see, I've been burned again! I hate these types of discussions, too many people believe too strongly to believe it's safe to be honest. winning becomes more important than being correct. I am sorry i posted this.

 

michael

[CraigD]

If I have stepped out of line by posting this I am sorry, I get so much of this stuff I seldom think of it as true or false.

I don’t think it’s out of line, I’d just like to see what sources whatever publication gave the data (eg: 44% increase in armed robberies in Austrialia) cite.

 

If a paper doesn’t cite any primary source, such as a Australian government publication, I’d trust its data about as much as I would if it came from a fellow in a bar.

 

Another advantage of carefully citing sources (even if only by name, as is necessary with materials obtained in the mail) is that people are less likely to jump to the conclusion that the claims offered are your own, and then proceed to jump on you for making unsupported claims.

 

I’m not very experienced at finding Australian crime statistics, so am hoping that someone that is will do it for us. If not, I’ll delve into it myself when I have a bit of time, and see if I can find something equivalent to the US’s United States Department of Justice.

[Zythryn]

Believe it or not many people do see the banning and confiscation of guns by Germany as being the beginning of the war.

 

And they could be very much correct in that chronologically germany used gun registrations and laws to 'control' guns to find them and confiscate them. I have no doubt that germany did something of that sort in most if not all occupied territories (including its own).

What is misleading is to say that all the people in that war that died, died because of the gun control.

I don't think the lack of gun control would have prevented those deaths. That is simple rational deductive reasoning, not emotional.

[bongo]

never owned one and never will i think..i don't like violence ...

[DougF]

I see, I've been burned again! I hate these types of discussions, too many people believe too strongly to believe it's safe to be honest. winning becomes more important than being correct. I am sorry i posted this.

 

michael

Originally Posted by DougF

Moontanman

I'm not sure how much of this is accurate but does any one know if the part about Australia has any truth to it?

 

See the post I left (#37 This thread) I don't think it true, but it is food for thought.

I two would like like to find more information on Australian gun control,I posted this link in the hopes that one Hypography might have a good link or know if there is anything to this.

[Tormod]

15.22 32.00 United States

4.39 31.50 Norway

 

This is very interesting, however, I doubt the validity of these numbers. Since the figure for Norway is from 1989, it predates a recall of all weapons which our army reserve troops had at home, so I think today's figure would be significantly smaller.

[InfiniteNow]

What's the difference between your two affirmative options (choices 1 & 3)?

 

Still waiting for clarification.

 

Was Jay-qu's supposition accurate?

 

Stil waiting... :esmoking:

 

Okay, it appears Racoon has gone dark. Jay-qu proposed that option #1 was "owning a gun with malicious intent."

 

Would any other posters be willing to share their perceptions on the difference? I'd like to vote, but I want my vote to count.

[DougF]

well as of now the vote is 34.6% no.

and 50% for yes or thinking about it (IMHO means yes sooner or later)

OK! let me know if you think I'm wrong.:esmoking:

the rest of you's guys haven't deiced yet.

[CraigD]

well as of now the vote is 34.6% no.

I'd sum the “No” and “No; Guns should be banned” counts to give 34.6 + 7.7 = 42.3% “No”.

 

Interestingly, the 30.7% “Yes” count is a statistical match of the 32% US household gun ownership rate. Unless that rate is about to see a dramatic increase, I suspect most of the people represented by the 26.9% “No, But I am considering owning a gun” will, after consideration, decide not to own a gun.

 

I didn’t know what to expect from this poll – scientists and science enthusiast are, in my anecdotal experience, a mixed bunch when it comes to gun ownership, consisting of every sort from absolute pacifist to gun-smuggling revolutionary. We’re also a tool-loving lot, inclined, I think, to the “best to have it and never need it rather than need it and not have it” position.

 

Interesting … :doh:

[DougF]

I'd sum the “No” and “No; Guns should be banned” counts to give 34.6 + 7.7 = 42.3% “No”.

 

Interestingly, the 30.7% “Yes” count is a statistical match of the 32% US household gun ownership rate. Unless that rate is about to see a dramatic increase, I suspect most of the people represented by the 26.9% “No, But I am considering owning a gun” will, after consideration, decide not to own a gun.

 

I didn’t know what to expect from this poll – scientists and science enthusiast are, in my anecdotal experience, a mixed bunch when it comes to gun ownership, consisting of every sort from absolute pacifist to gun-smuggling revolutionary. We’re also a tool-loving lot, inclined, I think, to the “best to have it and never need it rather than need it and not have it” position.

 

Interesting … :doh:

OK you're right. I should have included 7.7% in total this would be a more rounded number that shows the true pole of our community.

And the “No, But I am considering owning a gun” could go ether way it is after all there decision to own one or not. ( a little presumptuous on my part)

I think, the “best to have it and never need it rather than need it and not have it” position is my side of this pole.

 

BTW: thanks for keeping me in line. :lol: