"We've evolved to be creationists"

[REASON]

:( Forgive me-oh Lord-for replying to a question not directed at me. I don't think the idea of evolutionary spiritual belief is deserving of any such imperitives such as 'likely', or 'destined', etcetera. It happened this way and we just have to deal with it.

 

Think of the 'spiritualism' as many other human traits such as music ability. On one extreme we have musical savants and the other end the tone deaf. In spiritualism we have one extreme of prophets and the other of atheists. Were people 'likely' to evolve music ability? Silly questions.

 

Yes, we are in danger of the 'supernaturalistic, faithful thinking' stomping out reason & rationality, if by no other evidence than folks try it regularly. I'll spare you the litany of offending religions and their purveyors; pick your poison. :D

 

Touche' Turtle :)

 

I think I allowed a bit too much sarcasm in my last post. I definitely don't want to be known as someone who asks silly questions. I mostly asked them because I wanted more information as to what is being implied by the title of this thread.

 

"Spiritualism," though, was not a term I referenced. What is spiritualism? Beyond its definition in a dictionary, it is a very subjective experience. I suppose it is unique in each individual. I believe that some form of spirituality is present in all of us and expressed in a variety of ways. Most often, it is inexorably tied to religion.

 

I have had what I consider spitual experiences when staring at the stars, while listening to beautiful music, during moments of passion or intimacy, while looking out over a great majestic landscape, while watching my children, or watching my mother pass away. I have learned that many consider the feelings generated around these experiences, the essence of our souls. It's part of the wonderment of life, and of feeling that your part of something much larger. I'm down with that.

 

I would agree that we have evolved to have a sense of spirituality. Maybe it's come out of the immensity of our imagination, and our ability to contemplate the enormous complexities of this reality. For many, spiritualism appears to be an escape from reality. But for me, spiritualism exists outside of the context of creationism and religious dogmatism.

 

I would also contend that we have evolved to be discoverers. We are constantly seeking knowledge and wisdom, and our minds continue to expand as we seek and find answers to our questions. Science has been paramount in our quest for understanding ourselves as well as the natural universe. Therefore, I believe it would be equally safe to say.....

 

....."We've evolved to be scientists."

[REASON]

Can evolutionary science and religious faith ultimately find common ground?

 

Not as long as there remains an unwillingness to let go of traditional religious dogmatism and there is continual denial of scientific realism.

 

 

And moreover, is it possible that evolution might not only be reconciled with religion, but in fact become the very foundation of a rich, new spiritual vision?

 

Absolutely! "New spiritual vision" would be the operative phrase.

[Boerseun]

Humans are the only species to be self conscious.

Carl Sagan references a study done on consciousness/self awareness in Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors, an absolute must-read for anyone interested in the origins of humanity (it has nothing to do with Sagan's usual astronomy stuff, although the first chapter obviously sets the scene for biological evolution on Earth by describing the planet's accretion and birth. Also, he doesn't say "Billions and Billions" once...)

 

But, in any case, testing done on self-awareness includes, amongst others, the ability to recognize one self in a mirror. And in the animal world, dolphins and chimps do indeed see the image in the mirror as an image of themselves. Which, by that standard, at least, includes those two species along with humans in the very short list of animals on Planet Earth capable of consciousness and self-awareness. Whether there are chimpanzee gods or dolphin deities is another matter, though.

 

But whatever you do, go and read that book. It rocks. A big pity the man died, he still had a heck of a lot of books in him that won't be written now.

[Turtle]

Touche' Turtle :)

:) There used to be a children's cartoon by the name Touche Turtle. :)

 

I would agree that we have evolved to have a sense of spirituality. Maybe it's come out of the immensity of our imagination, and our ability to contemplate the enormous complexities of this reality. For many, spiritualism appears to be an escape from reality. But for me, spiritualism exists outside of the context of creationism and religious dogmatism.

I don't disagree. I would rephrase to say creationism & religious dogmatism are contained in spiritualism as this allows for the other forms of 'spiritualism' as you mention. Gedanken a Venn diagram wherin spiritualism is the largest circle encompassing the smaller dogmatism.

 

I would also contend that we have evolved to be discoverers. We are constantly seeking knowledge and wisdom, and our minds continue to expand as we seek and find answers to our questions. Science has been paramount in our quest for understanding ourselves as well as the natural universe. Therefore, I believe it would be equally safe to say.....

 

....."We've evolved to be scientists."

 

No disagreement on this either, except to qualify that evolution is an ongoing process. Until we & science evolve to a point that clarifies a question or questions on sprituality, we are unlikely to see large scale change in people's beliefs on the subject.

 

Turtle

 

I think that you have suggested a useful example. We humans have certain abilities or propensities that just simply exist without any obvious evolutionary purpose. Such things as abstract art, music, and perhaps a yearning for the supernatural are all behaviors that give us notice of these accidental aspects of our nature. Probability would suggest that we have a great number of these accidental ‘engravings’ on the unconscious part of our brain.

 

These aspects only appear accidental in my view because we have not yet found the scientific evidence that qualifies the evolutionary purpose and/or advantage. Even taking such a view as apes accidentally evolved as humans because they ate psychoactive plants may in time come to have a scientific confirmation or disproval. Science is always amendable, wheras dogmatism is not. :eek2:

[Michaelangelica]

 

 

The Brick Testament

Old Testament > Genesis >

The Garden of Eden