Radio Wave Question

[AxelMan]

Every summer all summer long the area surrounding my neighborhood undergoes periods of static interference. I have noticed periodic interference in the TV (cable), our wireless phones, our walkie talkies, my cell phone, my car radio, the house radios, our wireless router, everything and anything that trasmits/recieves any sort of signal, wireless or not. All the interference occurs on these devices simultaneously. We live right next to the college of dupage (In Illinois) radio tower (I think it's in Glen Ellyn not Wheaton though we live right on the border so i'm not sure). Is it possible that the college is not following some regulations? What could possibly be causing this persistant static and why is it caused only durring the summer and why only in our neighborhood?

[Tormod]

Well, first question would be "does it only ever happen in your neighborhood"?

 

A radio tower should not cause static in all of these utilities unless it was transmitting at absolutely all frequencies (and transmitting a poor signal at that).

 

It sounds more like something is interrupting the signal. My first guess would be power line noise but since you get it in wireless gadgets (and in the car) then I guess the next question would be at what times of day the periodic interference occurs.

[AxelMan]

It's worst around noon until about five

[Turtle]

Every summer all summer long the area surrounding my neighborhood undergoes periods of static interference. I have noticed periodic interference in the TV, our wireless phones, our walkie talkies, my cell phone, my car radio, the house radios, our wireless router, everything and anything that trasmits/recieves wirelessly. All the interference occurs on these devices simultaneously. We live right next to the college of dupage (In Illinois) radio tower (I think it's in Glen Ellyn not Wheaton though we live right on the border so i'm not sure). Is it possible that the college is not following some regulations? What could possibly be causing this persistant static and why is it caused only durring the summer and why only in our neighborhood?

 

yes on the bold, but it may be unintentional. they may have a bad lead cable going to the tower that is leaking RF. i suggest you visit or call the college & bring this to their attention if you haven't already. try their radio club too, as the folks in it just love this kind of stuff. :omg:

[Tormod]

It's worst around noon until about five

 

Turtle is right, call them and ask! Maybe someone is vacuming the floors in the station at this time. :omg:

[Turtle]

another thought. since you're in the US, put in a call to the FCC. there may be an ameteur radio operator in the neighborhood using illegal equipment;they're called radio pirates. ::omg: in any case, the FCC is sovereign in these matters. :hihi: :hihi:

[AxelMan]

Thanks haha :omg: I'll do that

[InfiniteNow]

You may also put a call into the experimental physics department (that is, as long as your phone isn't on the fritz). Maybe some grad student has been playing around with a new toy and doesn't realize he's frying everything around him.

[FrankM]

another thought. since you're in the US, put in a call to the FCC. there may be an ameteur radio operator in the neighborhood using illegal equipment;they're called radio pirates. ::clock: in any case, the FCC is sovereign in these matters. :hihi: :cup:

 

Amateur radio operators can loose their licenses if they use illegal equipment. "Radio pirates" are usually unlicensed individuals that use the radio waves for illicit use. It seems doubtful that a standard radio station of any kind could produce random static of such intensity that it creates broadband "noise".

 

I doubt the college radio station is the problem. It is an FM station, WDCB 90.9 FM.

 

Every summer all summer long the area surrounding my neighborhood undergoes periods of static interference. I have noticed periodic interference in the TV (cable), our wireless phones, our walkie talkies, my cell phone, my car radio, the house radios, our wireless router, everything and anything that trasmits/recieves any sort of signal, wireless or not. All the interference occurs on these devices simultaneously. We live right next to the college of dupage (In Illinois) radio tower (I think it's in Glen Ellyn not Wheaton though we live right on the border so i'm not sure). Is it possible that the college is not following some regulations? What could possibly be causing this persistant static and why is it caused only durring the summer and why only in our neighborhood?

 

The College of Dupage has a number of "occupational" programs that might be the problem. Note in the listing below that "welding" is one of the occupational programs. Several types of electric arc welding will generate strong wideband emissions, which will appear as static in radio receivers, etc.

 

Occupational/Vocational Programs at College of DuPage

 

Course Descriptions | Welding Technology

 

Check the class schedules. It may be that certain arc welding classes are offered only in the Summer. The FCC won't be able to help you if the cause is any of the electric arc welding processes.

 

Find out where on campus arc welding is taught, you might be very close to that class area.

[Turtle]

Amateur radio operators can loose their licenses if they use illegal equipment. "Radio pirates" are usually unlicensed individuals that use the radio waves for illicit use. It seems doubtful that a standard radio station of any kind could produce random static of such intensity that it creates broadband "noise".

 

i agree with all 3 statements; however my agreement requires qualification.

 

#1 not all amateurs are licensed and in either case 'illegality' is no barrier to the trade in high output RF amps. this is precisely why i recommend calling the FCC. they can, will, and do track these folk down & prosecute them.

 

#2 these folks -licensed or not- engage in the illicit practice of 'squashing', which is the practice of broadcasting as wide & powerful a signal as possible in order to shut out all others. it is a competition for these folks.

 

#3 these are not standard 'stations'. we recently had a murder in our village over this kind of radioteering; the two started battling it out with their radios, then met up in a parking lot & shot it out. moreover, these practices can interfere with emergency services radios and potentially cost lives if a critical radio call is lost. to avoid detection by authorities, they put the equipment in vehicles, take down and hide their antennas, etcetera.

 

axelman, have you talked to neighbors about the interference? do they have it too? by all means, call the FCC. :cup:

[Tormod]

we recently had a murder in our village over this kind of radioteering

 

You'd think there are more important things in life!

[FrankM]

i agree with all 3 statements; however my agreement requires qualification.

 

#1 not all amateurs are licensed and in either case 'illegality' is no barrier to the trade in high output RF amps. this is precisely why i recommend calling the FCC. they can, will, and do track these folk down & prosecute them.

 

#2 these folks -licensed or not- engage in the illicit practice of 'squashing', which is the practice of broadcasting as wide & powerful a signal as possible in order to shut out all others. it is a competition for these folks.

 

#3 these are not standard 'stations'. we recently had a murder in our village over this kind of radioteering; the two started battling it out with their radios, then met up in a parking lot & shot it out. moreover, these practices can interfere with emergency services radios and potentially cost lives if a critical radio call is lost. to avoid detection by authorities, they put the equipment in vehicles, take down and hide their antennas, etcetera.

 

axelman, have you talked to neighbors about the interference? do they have it too? by all means, call the FCC. :cup:

 

All amateur radio stations in the USA are licensed. See FCC Section 15.17. The rules for amateur licensing are much stricter in almost every other country, except those where buying off an official is standard practice.

 

... My first guess would be power line noise but since you get it in wireless gadgets (and in the car) then I guess the next question would be at what times of day the periodic interference occurs. ...

 

Tormod took the analytical approach, which is what anyone should do rather than blaming someone sight unseen. I know of amateurs who were blamed for interference by neighbors when there was no transmitter attached to their antennas, and hadn't been for years. Neighbors see an antenna and they call the FCC, which usually sends a violation notice to the amateur without anyone even checking whether it was true. The FCC uses the "you are guilty until you prove you are innocent" approach, which is cheaper than sending an inspector to determine whether the neighbors allegations were even true.

 

axelman, check your local college for welding classes and what building is used for it. Is your neighborhood near any industrial buildings? Use a cheap portable AM radio as a direction finder. Use your car radio and drive around the college and your neighborhood to see where the "noise" is the loudest.

 

A few years ago I had a persistent "popping" sound in my radios and I hopped in my car and drove around the neighborhood using my car radio to determine where the noise was loudest. It was a neighbor with a "hot wire fence" that was shorting to ground. It would charge up then discharge creating the arc that radiated broadband emissions, with the fence being a nice long antenna.

 

Just wait until the power companies get approval to put broadband over the power lines, then you will wish you lived miles from any power line.

[Turtle]

All amateur radio stations in the USA are licensed. See FCC Section 15.17. The rules for amateur licensing are much stricter in almost every other country, except those where buying off an official is standard practice.

 

 

Frank, you surprise me. :cup: the rules don't mean spit to folks intent on some activity. i know some of these guys and they could care less about the rules. they build and trade their own high power equipment and use serepetitious means to carry on their 'squashing' games.

 

my neighbor a few years back had a 40 ft antenna hidden in a tree and its lead cable was as big around as my thumb. he ran an airconditioner 24 hours a day every day of the year to keep his radio room cool and had a dedicated video surveilance system to do nothing but guard that antenna. not only do they not want to get caught, but they steal each others antennas and radios as well. who's going to report that? no one. he also kept a small arsenal for protecting his equipment.

 

anyway, as we have said, many things may cause axleman's interferance and due diligence requires checking all possibilities. :wink:

[Qfwfq]

Modulation of the carrier causes a broad spectrum (see side bands) so it depends on what the modulating signal is. Also some circumstances (especially with high powers and poor design) can cause a lot of harmonics.

[FrankM]

The first radio transmitters were "spark gap" types that used the electric arc to generate a broad band emission. Antennas were coupled to the spark gap to maximize radiation. Tuned circuits came soon afterwards to maximize the emissions in particular spectrum areas. Arc welders are essentially crude old fashioned radio transmitters and the work piece is the antenna.

 

The Lincoln Electric site has some interesting comments about radio interference.

 

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/grounding_arc_welding_safety.asp]Grounding and Arc Welding Safety | Lincoln Electric

 

"Ground clamp" and "ground lead" are common terms used by many welders. The workpiece is connected to a welding cable typically by means of a spring loaded clamp or screw clamp. Unfortunately, a workpiece connection is often incorrectly called a "ground clamp" by many welders and the workpiece lead is incorrectly called "ground lead." The welding cable does not bring a ground connection to the workpiece. The ground connection is separate from the workpiece connection.

The next paragraph discusses radio and tv interference, but they don't mention that arc welding itself produces broadband emissions that can be detected at considerable distance.

 

When I took a welding class at the local community college nothing was mentioned about "radio interference" or grounding the work piece. Most attending the course were those intending to be "certified welders". I wanted to learn to use my home welder properly.

 

If axelman can determine that the college welding class is the source of interference, he can then ask or determine whether the "work pieces" are grounded. If they say yes, ask how? If they say by the welder's ground lead you can then cite the Lincoln Electric article that says that is not a "work piece" ground. It would be unsafe to provide a common ground connecting each welders "ground lead" to all other welders "ground lead" or tying the welder "ground lead" to "earth ground" , but you can provide an "earth ground" for all "work pieces" without compromising safety.

 

Since it is possible to mitigate radio interference from welding you would have potential remedies. I have to retract my previous statement,

The FCC won't be able to help you if the cause is any of the electric arc welding processes.

since it can be mitigated. If you know your other neighbors ask them if they have interference problems. If they do your first step would be contacting the college and if that doesn't correct the problem try "publicity", a letter to the editor of your local paper. If nothing happens after that you can play hardball using the FCC.