Which Bible Is The "inspired Word Of God?"

[charles brough]

When I learned that there is a Catholic Bible, a German one, a King James one, a Coptic one and a number of others, I wondered how God would allow "His Word" to become so confused. Since our eternal fate is wrapped up in what it says, it seems He does does not take our plight seriously enough. He throws down impossible obstacles. These different Bibles are not the same. There are big differences.

 

Of course, God would really not do a thing like that. If He really did exist, he would be reasonable, for after all, we are rather helpless here. We have enough troubles without Him creating more of them for us.

 

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[Michaelangelica]

If He really did exist, he would be reasonable

If I was God I wouldn't be reasonable.:)

Think of all the beaut smiting you could do to the "ungodly" (anyone you don't like or disagrees with you):)

I have a little list:evil:

[Boerseun]

Not only that, but what does God really want to say? If you take any random version of the Bible, you'll find an incredible amount of contradictions within the same Book. For instance, are you supposed to stone a prostitute to death, or wash her feet? Human Life is supposedly sacred, but every now and then God might call upon you to kill your son.

 

So, if God does indeed exist, he seems to me to be a particularly confused deity. So I don't think worrying about which version is the true version is a problem, I think we should rather be worrying about the Big Guy's sanity!

[ughaibu]

The christian god tortures most people for eternity, there's no reason to suspect he likes people so dont expect any useful hints from his written word.

[Michaelangelica]

So, if God does indeed exist, he seems to me to be a particularly confused deity. So I don't think worrying about which version is the true version is a problem, I think we should rather be worrying about the Big Guy's sanity!

LOL yes but if you had to watch over this mess you would be crackers too!

 

And how come he didn't mention the "Big Bang"?

"At first there was nothing and then it exploded" -TP

 

And totally ignored dinosaurs and 99% of the life of the planet that has died in the last 5,000 years. Didn't he/she/it like them?

 

And don't tell me He/She/It was too busy!

[CraigD]

Which Bible Is The "inspired Word Of God?"

This is a leading question. There is no logical requirement that there be only document containing “inspired Word of God”, any more than there is a requirement that there be only one work of fiction inspired by the science fiction television series “Star Trek”.

 

Apologies for the weak simile between God and Star Trek, as the latter is objectively known to exist, but not (except in the extreme fringes of fandom :)) considered divine. However, assuming, as is conventional in theological discussion, the existence of God, and a will on His/Her/Its part to inspire, I know of no logical or scriptural requirement that He/She/It inspire only one author/editor/translator/publisher.

 

Even if one takes the position that God does not objectively exist, authors/editors/translators/publishers are not precluded from being inspired by the idea of God, nor limited to being singular.

When I learned that there is a Catholic Bible, a German one, a King James one, a Coptic one and a number of others, I wondered how God would allow "His Word" to become so confused.

It’s not uncommon for people professing to speak for God to insist that He/She/It has not allowed this confusion to occur, that they alone have the true Word, and further, instructions from God to root out and destroy all unauthentic imitations – usually along with their authors/editors/translators/publishers, and, occasionally, readers. The lengths and persistence to which various clergy have been know to go in this rooting out and destruction is amazing – one of my favorite examples involves John Wycliffe, the 14th Century cleric credited with the first complete translation of the Bible into English. Although Wycliffe escaped destruction (or even excommunication or loss of church income) while he lived, 45 years after his death, his remains were dug up, excommunicated, burned, and cast into a river (which some credit with being extra-bad for ones immortal soul).

 

IMHO, the multiplicity of religious scripture, and the dramatic and often bizarre history surrounding it, contributes far more to the discipline of Theology than these texts themselves. “The greatest stor(ies) ever told” are, I think, more the stories about the telling of stories than the core doctrinal stories themselves.

[ughaibu]

“The greatest stor(ies) ever told” are, I think, more the stories about the telling of stories than the core doctrinal stories themselves.

 

As the beauty of chess lies in the unheard melodies of rejected variations.

On the question of a person's life, I hope the beauty of the unrealised possibilities is merely contributive to the beauty that's actualised.

[Southtown]

I don't think anything could be perfectly translated into another language. Think about what a language actually is. A language is a "collection of definitions" that represent the very thoughts and concepts that pervade and shape the culture in which it exists. How can one language even be compared much less equated with another?

 

Consider this passage:

Moreover the word of Yahweh came to me, saying, Jeremiah, what do you see? I said, I see a rod of an almond tree. Then said Yahweh to me, You have seen well: for I watch over my word to perform it.

-- Jeremiah 1:11-12 web

Any thinking person would ask, "WTF?!" The answer is only found in reading the Hebrew original: it rhymes. "Almond tree" in Hebrew is shaked (shawkayd), while "watch over" is shoked (showkayd). To complicate things, the words are spelled the same, and their meaning is only determined by context. Some things just can't be translated, and this is a typical example of Hebrew (especially biblical) writings.

 

And here's an example from thelivingwords.ancient-hebrew.org.

~~ Perfect ~~

 

I am going to begin this study with a comparison of two people, Jacob and Job.

And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a

plain

man, dwelling in tents.

Genesis 25:27 (KJV)

 

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was

perfect

and upright, and one

Job 1:1 (KJV)

From these two verses we could conclude the Jacob was just an ordinary person, nothing really special but, Job on the other hand was rather extra-ordinary as he was “perfect.” What you might find interesting is that the word “perfect” is a translation of the Hebrew word

תם

tam

[8535] but so is the word “plain.” So why isn’t Jacob considered “perfect” by the translations just as they did with Job? Probably another case of relying on the Greek Septuagint for their translation that the Hebrew itself. The Greek uses the word

αμεμπτωσ

amemptos

[273], meaning “blameless,” for Job and the word

απλουσ

haplous

[573], meaning “simple,” for Jacob.

 

The word tam can be best defined as “mature in thought and action” and is the root of the verb

תמם

tamam

[8552] meaning to be whole, finished or completed. From this verb comes the word

תמים

tamiym

[8549].

Thou shalt be

perfect

with the LORD thy God.

Deuteronomy 18:13 (KJV)

Can one be perfect? From a Greek perspective, no, as everyone has their faults but, in Hebraic thought there is no concept of “perfect.” A better translation of the verse above is;

You will be

complete

with Yahweh your Elohiym

[charles brough]

The lengths and persistence to which various clergy have been know to go in this rooting out and destruction is amazing – one of my favorite examples involves John Wycliffe, the 14th Century cleric credited with the first complete translation of the Bible into English. Although Wycliffe escaped destruction (or even excommunication or loss of church income) while he lived, 45 years after his death, his remains were dug up, excommunicated, burned, and cast into a river (which some credit with being extra-bad for ones immortal soul).

 

IMHO, the multiplicity of religious scripture, and the dramatic and often bizarre history surrounding it, contributes far more to the discipline of Theology than these texts themselves. “The greatest stor(ies) ever told” are, I think, more the stories about the telling of stories than the core doctrinal stories themselves.

 

What a great series of posts! Yes, poor Wycliffe . . . The Bible is so filled with inconsistencies that the Church prohibited people from reading it. The whole purpose of having a Pope was to decide which inconsistencies were "true" and which were not. He was supposed to be infallable. One Pope started to rewrite the Bible to get rid of the inconsistencies. They decided that was going to far! About that time, the Age of the Corrupt Church, politics got so involved that the Church ended up with three Popes and no one knew which was the infallable one or if all of them were!

 

charles, HOME PAGE

[Turtle]

How can one language even be compared much less equated with another?

 

Consider this passage:...

 

the question implies the comparison/equation is undoable, and yet the remainder of the post implies the opposite. rather between the hammer & the anvil here aren't we?

 

as craig so well said,

...It’s not uncommon for people professing to speak for God to insist that He/She/It has not allowed this confusion to occur, that they alone have the true Word, ...

 

i also agree the question is leading, making the discussion doomed to be riddled with logical fallacies and inconsistencies from the root. ;)

[C1ay]

Bibles are the works and words of men.....

 

 

 

This post is the inspired word of the FSM....

[Southtown]

the question implies the comparison/equation is undoable, and yet the remainder of the post implies the opposite. rather between the hammer & the anvil here aren't we?

Right, a bit over-reaching of me to include the comparison of languages. I should have asked how literature contrived by one culture could be "perfectly" translated into another.

[ughaibu]

I should have asked how literature contrived by one culture could be "perfectly" translated into another.

 

Or, 'how are ancient myths of a small and arbitrarily selected tribe relevant to modern societies?'

[Southtown]

Or, 'how are ancient myths of a small and arbitrarily selected tribe relevant to modern societies?'

Don't put words in my mouth. It doesn't become you.

[Turtle]

Right, a bit over-reaching of me to include the comparison of languages. I should have asked how literature contrived by one culture could be "perfectly" translated into another.

 

the way is no way. there is not even perfect translation of literature in the same language and in the same culture.

 

for example, when i read ughaibu's

Or, 'how are ancient myths of a small and arbitrarily selected tribe relevant to modern societies?'

i did not translate it as your

Don't put words in my mouth. ...

 

i translated the meaning as ughaibu recognizing alternate questions were appropriate, and offerering his own alternate question. i stipulate the common culture here is world culture, and obviously we are using the same language.

 

any perfection, while arguably within our reach, is beyond our grasp. ;)

[CraigD]

Or, 'how are ancient myths of a small and arbitrarily selected tribe relevant to modern societies?'

This question is near the top of my list of all-time greatest theological questions, ahead of even such classics as “If God is good, and omnipotent, why does He/She/It allow bad things to happen.” Like the latter, it has a conventional answer I find pretty compelling, something along the lines of:

Ancient myths of a small and arbitrarily selected tribe are relevant to modern societies because the practical moral problems faced by individuals in modern societies are not much different than those faces by individuals in a small and arbitrarily selected tribe”.

 

Practically, I’ve found that most religionists have a small personal “keep” list of scriptural moral rules (which usually agrees pretty closely with most athiests’ lists of personal morals) and a much larger “don’t keep” list.

 

An example of a common keeper:

Thou shalt not kill

An example of a common don’t keeper:

Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Though unquestionably a great passage for keeping the kids in line, this one has clearly lost some relevance over the centuries.

[Southtown]

i translated the meaning as ughaibu recognizing alternate questions were appropriate, and offerering his own alternate question.

Or, ughaibu was just changing the subject. ;)