U.S. Immigration Bill

[KatherineLee]

I am curious as to how other US citizens on this board feel about the US Senate voting against the Immigration bill that President Bush has been fighting for?

 

You can just type in google news "bush immigration" to get some hints of newspapers reporting the story since I cannot post links quite yet.

[C1ay]

Welcome to the forum. We don't usually get picky about spelling but it looks like you misspelled Amnesty in your thread title :(

[KatherineLee]

Welcome to the forum. We don't usually get picky about spelling but it looks like you misspelled Amnesty in your thread title :(

 

Nope, I don't think I misspelled anything, or left out anything from the title.

 

Perhaps I could have added in my actual message that this bill involved a bit about granting amnesty to illegals in the US, but that was not the only thing the bill would have done. :)

[C1ay]

Oops, I forgot the "Sarcasm" tags :(

[Cedars]

Short answer?

 

I am glad this effort has been defeated.

[Zythryn]

I'm disappointed that it was an 'all or nothing' approach.

We need to better secure our borders so we know exactly who is entering our country.

I feel we also need to eliminate the underground culture that is growing in our country. I see two ways to do this. Track down and deport every single illegal alien. Or two, give them a route to becoming legal residents. Frankly I don't think the first is possible, while the second is possible if we simply agree to do it.

Both issues need to be addressed, yet we have succeeded in addressing neither:(

[DougF]

I'm disappointed that it was an 'all or nothing' approach.

We need to better secure our borders so we know exactly who is entering our country.

I feel we also need to eliminate the underground culture that is growing in our country. I see two ways to do this. Track down and deport every single illegal alien. Or two, give them a route to becoming legal residents. Frankly I don't think the first is possible, while the second is possible if we simply agree to do it.

Both issues need to be addressed, yet we have succeeded in addressing neither:(

I think I'm with you on this,:love:

 

PS. Welcome KatherineLee , hope you like it here. :doh:

[KatherineLee]

Perhaps a year ago I would have fully supported the bill, granting illegals legal status...

 

...but after hearing about the process that people need to go through in order to do it the proper way, with all the paperwork and fees, I would not feel it is fair to those immigrants to grant legal status to others just because they managed to get into the U.S.

 

Therefore, I was happy to hear that it was shot down. I have no problem welcoming people into the U.S. along as they go about the proper way of doing so, and yes, I do realize that for some this is next to impossible if not entirely impossible.

 

Although I think the bill did have some strong suits, it wasn't the answer I personally think the US needs.

[Racoon]

My position should already be know around here...

I say Nay!

 

The solution is to secure the Homeland by erecting physical barriers and using National Guard troops to secure them. We can't let the terrorists in..

Then we slowly disseminate who has already entered... and at 12+ million thats a daunting task.

 

Drug dealers, pedophiles, criminals , and other undesireables should be deported.

 

Those who are honest and working, with family, should have a chance to receive citizenship.

 

Anyone familiar with political re-districting ought to know the kind of power granting a largely Latino block of 12 million voters might have.

 

We don't know who these illegals are, other than we know they're breaking the laws.

 

People who cry humanitarian reasons to allow everyone and their sick grandma into the country are doing this country a disservice.

Social Security, Health care, Education, transit, jails -- all being overwhelmed by millions who don't have Americas best interest at heart.

 

America is not obligated to welcome and care for millions of illegals.

 

If you want to immigrate, then folow the proper channels. Otherwise its the illegals own homeland who owes them that support and opportunity.

 

The United States of America has come a long ways! and its shouldn't be undermined by 3rd world overpopulation.

 

Europe faces similar problems as America with mass floods of immigrants: Crime, poverty, illiteracy, and communicable diseases.

 

Educated immigrants are a boon to the economy. Mass Uneducated illegals are a short term profit with long term consequences.

 

The world can be a *****! Its not always fair. This place isn't paved in gold,milk, and honey any longer....

Follow the laws like everyone else is expected to.

[InfiniteNow]

My position should already be know around here...

I say Nay!

 

The solution is to secure the Homeland by erecting physical barriers and using National Guard troops to secure them. We can't let the terrorists in..

Then we slowly disseminate who has already entered... and at 12+ million thats a daunting task.

 

Drug dealers, pedophiles, criminals , and other undesireables should be deported.

 

Those who are honest and working, with family, should have a chance to receive citizenship.

 

Anyone familiar with political re-districting ought to know the kind of power granting a largely Latino block of 12 million voters might have.

 

We don't know who these illegals are, other than we know they're breaking the laws.

 

People who cry humanitarian reasons to allow everyone and their sick grandma into the country are doing this country a disservice.

Social Security, Health care, Education, transit, jails -- all being overwhelmed by millions who don't have Americas best interest at heart.

 

America is not obligated to welcome and care for millions of illegals.

 

If you want to immigrate, then folow the proper channels. Otherwise its the illegals own homeland who owes them that support and opportunity.

 

The United States of America has come a long ways! and its shouldn't be undermined by 3rd world overpopulation.

 

Europe faces similar problems as America with mass floods of immigrants: Crime, poverty, illiteracy, and communicable diseases.

 

Educated immigrants are a boon to the economy. Mass Uneducated illegals are a short term profit with long term consequences.

 

The world can be a *****! Its not always fair. This place isn't paved in gold,milk, and honey any longer....

Follow the laws like everyone else is expected to.

 

A big part of me wishes you were born in Mexico, and that you hoped for something better and were turned away from opportunity due to short-sighted emotionally charged isolationist policy decisions.

 

It would be a bit like the old Christmas Carol where Scrooge had to see his impact on others with the ghosts of christmas past, present, and future...

 

Is life really that scary that you have to be angry all of the time? What's going to happen when your anger runs out? Will you cower in a corner somewhere like a scared puppy in a lightning storm?

 

 

You throw around the most inflamed terms with the most ignorant hate. Why don't you just put a white sheet on your head and burn crosses while you hang the immigrants and drag them behind pick-up trucks with a chain tied to their ankles?

 

Don't worry, Racoon. You're not the only one who feels the way you do, but I can guarentee you're not in good company.

[InfiniteNow]

Both issues need to be addressed, yet we have succeeded in addressing neither:(

 

A guy I work with likes to say, "For some reason, we never have enough time to do things right, but we always seem to have enough time to do things over."

 

The problem, as Racoon's post exemplifies, is that it is a strongly emotional issue. You either feel that we should build fences with rifles or that we should find a better way. Tough call, I know.

 

Over 9.1 billion by 2050. That's gonna be one awefully big fence. ;)

[lamb.charlie]

Looking through, I am saddened by the views some people have for Immigrants. There are more options than the different ways to keep out immigrants. Many believe that they are bad for the economy, sending American money out of this country. Consider this. The reason they come in illegally, is because that is their economic edge in this country. Since most cannot speak English when they first arrive, it is very difficult to get legal work. Companies look over the language barrier because they are willing to work for less than minimum wage. WE NEED THIS! Cheaper labor makes it easier to build new businesses, expand current projects, and then run those businesses, and hence fuel the economy. Think about it, if the construction companies had to pay each worker minimum wage, then they would have to save money longer, or they may never have that money.

The main problem and I agree that it is a problem, is that they do not pay taxes. I propose that we make it optional, if desired, to be hired for less than minimum wage. This would give them that competitive edge, but they could get it legally, instead of under the table.

Also, do you know how long it takes to get citizenship? It drags on forever! Forget about citizen ship, I’m am looking at the site for just getting a work visa, which takes about half the time, and they are just now, today, July 1st, 2007, they are reviewing requests to work in the US from DECEMBER 2006! So it’s been seven months since the request went in, and they are just now looking at them. They won’t get into the system for about another month, and then, if they get a response at all, another couple of months before they receive the paperwork to come in to the country.

If your family is poor, and you need money now, would you really a year to do it legally, if you know you could just sneak in? I don’t think many of us would.

So, in addition to making less than minimum wages optional, we need to make the legal options of working here faster, easier, and more efficient. This would not only make them want to be legalized, but would make it easy to do so.

[KatherineLee]

we need to make the legal options of working here faster, easier, and more efficient. This would not only make them want to be legalized, but would make it easy to do so.

 

I completely agree with you there lamb.charlie.

 

In the lab I work in, I am an assistant to four Ph. Ds who have immigrated to the US from China. They went through all the paperwork and all the time to do it the right way. I appreciate the respect they showed this country by doing it this way.

However, as already mentioned the system is not as efficient as it should be. My main mentor Dr. Xudong Liang has been living in the U.S. for nine years now and is still waiting to become an official citizen because for some reason a background check apparently takes over five years.

This long process is not very encouraging to those that are desperate to be a part of the U.S., so I could see why they would want to sneak in it apparently takes a long time for the U.S. to do their part of the paperwork.

 

The answer isn't just to grant the illegals citizenship. Perhaps the U.S. should stop trying to solve the smaller issue and look towards the bigger issue. Sure, we can grant citizenship to these illegals and take them in because they provide cheap labor, but there is just going to be a continuing stream of illegals if the problem in their home country isn't solved.

Faster more efficent ways to get work visas and tighter boarders here in the U.S.

Better education systems and assistance to solve the underlying problem in Mexico.

[Racoon]

A big part of me wishes you were born in Mexico, and that you hoped for something better and were turned away from opportunity due to short-sighted emotionally charged isolationist policy decisions.

 

It would be a bit like the old Christmas Carol where Scrooge had to see his impact on others with the ghosts of christmas past, present, and future...

 

Is life really that scary that you have to be angry all of the time? What's going to happen when your anger runs out? Will you cower in a corner somewhere like a scared puppy in a lightning storm?

 

 

You throw around the most inflamed terms with the most ignorant hate. Why don't you just put a white sheet on your head and burn crosses while you hang the immigrants and drag them behind pick-up trucks with a chain tied to their ankles?

 

Don't worry, Racoon. You're not the only one who feels the way you do, but I can guarentee you're not in good company.

 

 

What the hell are you saying IN!!??

 

That I should feel bad for 'La Emigra Illegal' invading the US?

 

That people have a right to break laws?

 

Dude, you have lost it in your dream of a complete Utopian Society.

Becuz' it will Never happen in your or my lifetime.

 

Can't you accept that?

 

Comparing me to the Klu Klux Klan!? :confused: for defending the borders?

Are you serious? :doh:

 

I was an exchange student in Venezuela.. I speak good Spanish, and appreciate the culture..Adore it in fact.. But I realize politics as well..

 

Your remarks are way off base. And extremely short sighted and unrealistic! :( :naughty: :(

 

A shame too, becuz' you have a lot of intelligence.

[Racoon]

A guy I work with likes to say, "For some reason, we never have enough time to do things right, but we always seem to have enough time to do things over."

 

The problem, as Racoon's post exemplifies, is that it is a strongly emotional issue. You either feel that we should build fences with rifles or that we should find a better way. Tough call, I know.

 

Over 9.1 billion by 2050. That's gonna be one awefully big fence. :confused:

 

 

What happens when you enter Mexico illegally? Are you granted permanent rights?

 

Does China and other nations not guard their borders with fence and patrol??

 

Do you InfiniteNow, or whatever your real first name is, see the Forest from the tree??

 

Its also called a matter of National Security, in case you were worried about terrorists getting across easily, ready to set up shop and blow up everything you hold dear or thats economcally viable.

 

Welcome to the 21st century!

Maybe you should move to Tibet and join a monestary...

 

Jesus.. do I need to hold a pan under your bleeding heart??

[Erasmus00]

To Racoon and InfiniteNow, this is obviously a very emotionally charged issue, lets try to keep things as calm possible. Its easy to react from the gut, but much harder to point to a solution.

 

For my part, I understand the desire to remove people who broke the law to come to this country. However, the many people who hire them to work are also breaking the law, and they very rarely seem to be punished for it. I think that if we wish to publish people illegally staying here, to be equitable, we need to be just as hard on the people aiding and abetting.

 

Also, I think its important to keep in mind that statistics on this population (illegal immigrants, especially Mexican illegal immigrants) seem to be somewhat sketchy at best, given that I have alternatively heard that most of these immigrants are drug dealers, criminals... and that this population is almost entirely gainfully employed, your dishwashers, your gardeners, etc.

 

As to a solution to this problem? The problem I see with rounding up the illegal immigrants is the same problem everyone has- it seems likely many of these people are working our low paying service jobs, and have been for many years. Building walls and putting rifles up breeds hostility and reinforces what some have been saying for years- there is a growing divide between the haves and have nots. I personally think that we need to address the root of the problem-this class divide and to talk about this problem, as the immigration problem is merely a symptom. Is there a solution? I don't know, but not talking about certainly doesn't help.

-Will

[Racoon]

To Racoon and InfiniteNow, this is obviously a very emotionally charged issue, lets try to keep things as calm possible. Its easy to react from the gut, but much harder to point to a solution.

 

For my part, I understand the desire to remove people who broke the law to come to this country. However, the many people who hire them to work are also breaking the law, and they very rarely seem to be punished for it. I think that if we wish to publish people illegally staying here, to be equitable, we need to be just as hard on the people aiding and abetting.

 

 

As to a solution to this problem? The problem I see with rounding up the illegal immigrants is the same problem everyone has- it seems likely many of these people are working our low paying service jobs, and have been for many years. Building walls and putting rifles up breeds hostility and reinforces what some have been saying for years-

-Will

 

 

 

#1 Theres enough Illegals here already to the jobs Americans don't wan't.. But Americans would take those jobs after an economic recession or depression: such as after a severe terrorist attack.

 

#2 Many Illegals don't pay taxes but use up Billions of social services!! Explain that please! As in how it benefits American tax payers and society!

 

#3 How do you explain to the other millions who went through the system Legally...that they didn't really need to do all that, and merely just jump the border and hide until later??

 

#4 The Terrorist aspect: those who wish to infiltrate and later kill you! regardless of your humanitarian views? You are not Wahabi or strict Muslim! You are an Infadel, and killing you is good!!

 

#5 the reverse racism.. some and many Mexican illegals waiving the American flag upside down.. They don't care about our culture.. they want to exploit and serve their own best interests.. They spit on our culture and promote their own.. with mass numbers it becomes easier and easier.

 

#6 Crime, Drugs, Gangs! all a giant influx from Cartels and gangs.. Keep giving them a foothold and pools to draw new recruits

 

#7 Communicable diseases.. More TB, Aids, HPV, and a host of new sicknesses are coming in withought regulation.. TB was once history.. Now its another renewed threat..

 

Infinite Now? are you actually serious?? You don't care about Law or Borders? You'd rather just the World be one borderless place where anything goes?