My turn to Guess, by Joe Blow Nobody

[DryLab]

The first time I encountered the idea of vacuum fluctuations was in something that Wheeler wrote in the 80's where he envisioned space as a froth from which particles came and went in response to available energy. I didn't like the idea much ;)

The maxwell field can't be the only field.

This may be true, in the present state quantum field theory. But if you loop a spin one entity into a stable pattern that has two states, you have a spin 1/2 entity.

[Little Bang]

I think that there is a way to confirm or deny the gravitational hypothesis of this thread. The annihilation of the hydrogen atom and the anti-hydrogen atom will not happen if they are in close proximity because there will be a slight repulsive force between them.

[DryLab]

The annihilation of the hydrogen atom and the anti-hydrogen atom will not happen if they are in close proximity because there will be a slight repulsive force between them.

Why would there be a repulsive force ? Hydrogen would be neutrally charged both ways. The electron of the particle and the positron of the anti-particle would seek out and destroy each other if they came in close proximity. IMHO :pirate:

[Little Bang]

For the purpose of explanation imagine if you will that the proton is like the Earth with a north and south pole, an eastern hemisphere and a western hemisphere. We place the hydrogen atom on the left, which I will label as H, and the anti-hydrogen atom on the right, which we label AH. When the electron of H is in it's western hemisphere and the positron of AH is in it's western hemisphere the two atoms would repel because like charges repel the proton from the positron. When the electron of H is in the western hemisphere and the positron of AH is in it's eastern hemisphere the two atoms would attract but with slightly less force than the above situation because of the small orbtal difference in distance of the electron from it's proton and the positron from it's anti-proton. I hope this conveys the picture i am trying to paint.

[Little Bang]

Erasmus, my definition of electromagnetic and magnetic. A magnetic field is a charge that is stationary with respect to the observer, electromagnetic is a charge that is moving with respect to the observer. You could turn the definition around, it's a matter of nomenclature.

[Qfwfq]

However if you want to discuss physics in this forum you should keep at least reasonably in line with definitions as used in the art.

[Little Bang]

From Wikipedea, ( Electromagnetism is the physics of the electromagnetic field: a field which exerts a force on particles that possess the property of electric charge, and is in turn affected by the presence and motion of those particles.

 

The magnetic field is produced by the motion of electric charges, i.e. electric current. The magnetic field causes the magnetic force associated with magnets. ) According to this definition I'm not reasonably inline?

[Qfwfq]

You put it the other way around and then said:

You could turn the definition around, it's a matter of nomenclature.

I wouldn't say that you were in line.

[Little Bang]

I bow to your superior opinion.

[Qfwfq]

You could at least call them apple and pear! Then people would be forced to ask which is which... :hihi:

[Little Bang]

Check out this article in New Scientist " Cosmic 'egg-beaters' may have left magnetic legacy".

[DougF]

Little Bang

Check out this article in New Scientist " Cosmic 'egg-beaters' may have left magnetic legacy".

Here is the link to that article.

 

Cosmic 'egg-beaters' may have left magnetic legacy - space - 12 September 2007 - New Scientist Space

 

Cosmic 'egg-beaters' may have left magnetic legacy

12 September 2007

Zeeya Merali

Magazine issue 2621

DID colossal spinning loops of energy whip up the magnetic fields that thread through galaxies and may even stretch across intergalactic space? That's the idea being put forward to explain the universe's mysterious magnetic fields.

 

"Wherever we look' date=' we find a magnetic field," says Mark Wyman, a cosmologist at the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada. "But nobody can explain where they came from."

 

Galactic fields have a strength of about 10-10 tesla - one-hundred-thousandth of Earth's magnetic field - and cosmologists calculate that they could have been amplified from even weaker "seed fields" in the early universe of only about 10-34 tesla. "That's small in strength, but the problem is that you need something to create that field over a huge area, the size of a galaxy," says Wyman. [/quote']

[Little Bang]

Thanks Doug, I should have posted the link.

[Little Bang]

When I started this thread I thought that it would get hundreds of replies about how this could not possibly be the case. Instead it has generated almost no interest at all. Firecracker asked a very penetrating and intuitive question on another thread that I am sure he intended for this thread.

Quote: Littlebang:

A large number of theorists have said there should have been as much matter as anti-matter created in the Big Bang but since we have a matter universe there must have been more matter than anti-matter. If your idea about the attraction of matter for matter and the repulsion of matter for anti-matter is correct, how would this fit with their guess?

And my response:

Firecracker, that is a very good question. I assume you are referring the other thread entitled “MY TURN TO GUESS, BY JOE BLOW NOBODY. There are some things I need to explain before I give my opinion. I think the theorists were correct in saying there should have been just as much matter as anti-matter. The force of repulsion between matter and anti-matter, the force of attraction of matter for matter, and the force of attraction of anti-matter for anti-matter are all extremely small forces. In fact the force generated by a single electron is 10^40 larger. So any momentum that the condensed particles had would have overcome the force of repulsion and annihilations would have occurred. I will guess that somewhere between 75 to 90% of all matter would have been annihilated in the first couple of minutes after it condensed. This would have been the fireball that we call the CMBR. Now you ask where is all the left over anti-matter. I think it would have separated it’s self out into it’s own clumps of antimatter galaxies. We could be looking at an anti-matter galaxy far off and never know the difference. It would radiate just like a matter galaxy.

 

No one has asked the one question that makes my hypothesis untenable so I will pose the question myself. How can a magnetic field condense into a charged particle with a fixed mass and also condense into another charged particle of opposite polarity with a mass ~ 1822 times less than the first? The answer is that it can't. So I asked myself is there a possible scenario that could explain why we interpret the data making the electron and proton separate particles. Possible? Anything is possible. Maybe the electron proton pair is a four dimensional construct that viewed in three dimensions gives us the observed electron proton phenomena. I don't know, but I am pretty certain that there is something wrong when we start grabbing undetectable dark energy and dark matter to explain our observations. Some place we have drawn a conclusion that is wrong and it has put us on a road that does not lead to the answer.

[Little Bang]

One more thing to say and I promise not to address this thread again.

I’m going to tell you a story. I had just graduated from high school in 58. Yeah I know, I think that was the year they invented dirt. I was going to start my freshmen year at Tech that fall and I owned a 53 Olds that had over 200K on the engine.. So I decided to overhaul it (even though I had never rebuilt one before) because I knew it would have to last four to six years. Anyway after I had reinstalled the engine I found a

Three inch long hex head bolt on the floor under my work bench. I was not going to take that motor back apart unless it was absolutely necessary . So I hooked up the batter cranked on it for a long time and finally got it running. I traded it in about six months after I started my first job after Tech.

The point of the story is that the standard model is a lot like that motor. The human race has invested an enormous amount of time, money and effort into it’s development. Most of us have spent a great deal of time and effort in trying to understand it without contributing anything to it’s development. If there is a major flaw in it, will we ever go to the effort of finding out where the bolt belongs? In my opinion I don’t think we will. As long as we can keep adding things like undetectable dark energy and dark matter to keep it puttering along we will stick with it.

[Erasmus00]

If there is a major flaw in it, will we ever go to the effort of finding out where the bolt belongs? In my opinion I don’t think we will. As long as we can keep adding things like undetectable dark energy and dark matter to keep it puttering along we will stick with it.

 

But people worry about such things all the time! You can find hundreds of articles addressing small (often aesthetic) problems in the standard model, from fine tuning to hierarchy problems. Fundamental physics is all about figuring out where that bolt should have been.

-Will

[Buffy]

Anyway after I had reinstalled the engine I found a Three inch long hex head bolt on the floor under my work bench. I was not going to take that motor back apart unless it was absolutely necessary . So I hooked up the batter cranked on it for a long time and finally got it running. I traded it in about six months after I started my first job after Tech.

 

Sounds like the story works for individuals. I've been in your shoes and done the same thing. Heck, you're gonna sell it in six months, and if it works at all it'll probably keep going long enough to get it sold.

 

But science is a *community* so lets complexify it a little bit. Insecure Bang, your cousin, knows all about cars. Knows so much that you have to ask him questions all the time. Unfortunately he's a klutz and even with the world's fanciest torque wrench, he's busted more cylinder heads than he could shake a stick at. Guess what? He's always looking for someway to trip you up.

 

Fortunately, like any good scientist, you let him come and go to your garage and he finds the bolt, knows from his photographic memory of the shop manuals exactly where it goes, and then when he finds out you're trying to sell it Black Hole, tells him to check the water pump fan belt assembly before buying the car....

 

I think that's a bit more accurate of the situation in the scientific world, and why those darn flaws get exposed, no matter how big the "conspiracy" is...

 

A conspiracy of eggheads,

Buffy