Visionary Social Anatomy

[InfiniteNow]

Too often, skewed agendas are spread with dehumanizing rhetoric, words and tones which seek only to remove individuality from those who comprise the targeted group. This rhetoric is self-reinforcing, gaining momentum and support with each use. Points of fact are gathered and twisted like structural beams to support preconceived notions, ignorance, and the short-sighted anger it inspires.

 

When one opens their eyes and wakes up to the reality of these individuals who are cast within the targeted population, only those blinded by their own intensely passionate mindset of bigotry would choose to carry on in the same manner. Once the reality of the actual person is accounted for, the group of which they are a part begins to lose its facelessness, is less easily painted as a demon worthy of attack, and evaporates from its categorization as a reasonable enemy.

 

These groups are nothing but a collection peoples children, defined with bias and agenda, but still the offspring of human parents. Looking into the eyes of a child in the group, one must reasonably conclude that continuing down a path of hollow bigoted rhetoric will ultimately be detrimental to all, and serves only to block true societal advancement. Once one has seen the negative results of their actions and words on these human beings, and on the planet as a whole, they are faced with the moral decision to either release themselves from their existing mindset of the stereotype, or blindly reinforce it.

 

To an outside observer, the choice is clear. Stop targeting the abstract concept of a group and start seeing the human lives and the real people who compose it.

 

Please wake up.

[Buffy]

Uh, "stop pigeonholing people and calling them names?"

 

My English no too good. Did I get right?

 

Please do not misundertake me, :)

Buffy

[freeztar]

This is indeed a weird thread, but what the heck...

 

I gathered the impression that IN's text speaks of dissolution of bipartisan idealogy.

 

It never stated that, but that's one, and the first, interpretation I garnered from it.

 

this point is poignant...

Points of fact are gathered and twisted like structural beams to support preconceived notions, ignorance, and the short-sighted anger it inspires.

 

I agree that facts are often misconstrued....but...twisted like structural beams?

[Racoon]

So what makes you an authority on being such a Sociological Visionary?

 

 

Is this a "Lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya my Lord" thread?

Rodney King.. "Can't We all get along!??"

 

Maybe you haven't noticed, but the world is in critical social turmoil. So quit bullshitting and start stating some things people can do.

Or you sound like a chump peddeling flowery hippie speach rife with your own subtle hypocrisy.

 

Call me Boy and I'll punch you in the nose, :shrug:

Rac

[TheFaithfulStone]

Wow. You packed a lot of insult in there.

 

TFS

[Racoon]

Wow. You packed a lot of insult in there.

 

TFS

 

Sure did. :)

So Now what?

 

Wheres the Vision? I'd love to hear it! :shrug:

[Buffy]

From a particular viewpoint, intellectual obfuscation of the subject would be useful insofar as the target demographic represented by the view that logic is an unnecessary distraction when used against one's own self-identified clan is not tremendously erudite.

 

On the other hand, getting it out in the open and letting both sides try to justify their positions might be a good approach.

 

You might even find you agree with Now on this point Rac! :shrug:

 

Go ahead,

Buffy

[TheFaithfulStone]

Erudite. Nice. Had to look that one up.

 

TFS

[REASON]

So what makes you an authority on being such a Sociological Visionary?

 

 

Is this a "Lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya my Lord" thread?

Rodney King.. "Can't We all get along!??"

 

Maybe you haven't noticed, but the world is in critical social turmoil. So quit bullshitting and start stating some things people can do.

Or you sound like a chump peddeling flowery hippie speach rife with your own subtle hypocrisy.

 

Call me Boy and I'll punch you in the nose, :)

Rac

 

Boy Rac, that's quite a defensive and hateful reply. I gather you felt IN was speaking to you with his poem.

 

 

 

Personally IN, I found it to be very eloquent and appropriate to this defensive and hateful society we live in.

[Tarantism]

To an outside observer, the choice is clear. Stop targeting the abstract concept of a group and start seeing the human lives and the real people who compose it.

 

this quote stands out to me. infinatenow, everyone is an outside observer.

 

its quite impossible to stop viewing people as a collective and start viewing them as individulals if you are making laws and trying to operate in a democratic society, because quite frankly everyone will always draw something different from a speech, want a different solution to a problem, and have generally different needs from everyone else. yes, people are individuals, but it is impossible to retrofit every law and every judgement so that everyone is happy. blanket-rulings are a way to hopefully make the majority of the percentages happy, so that there are less people complaining...:hihi:

[Tarantism]

So what makes you an authority on being such a Sociological Visionary?

 

 

Is this a "Lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya my Lord" thread?

Rodney King.. "Can't We all get along!??"

 

Maybe you haven't noticed, but the world is in critical social turmoil. So quit bullshitting and start stating some things people can do.

Or you sound like a chump peddeling flowery hippie speach rife with your own subtle hypocrisy.

 

Call me Boy and I'll punch you in the nose, :hihi:

Rac

 

politicians, philosophers and other "visionaries" are only good at talking. they dont do action...and the ones that are considered "great" or "succesful" (or "approved" in today's glass-half-empty society) are the ones that say things that a lot of people like, thus causing the people that apply such beliefs to their lives take action and make things happen. oh wait, isnt that what this thread is about? :hihi:

 

fictional example: said politician says "i have a plan to be put into action immediately which will make our current landfills unessesary and will save space and me far more benificial for the enviorment".

 

now, said politician will not be the one out there operating the machinery and moving the garbage...but he certainly had the idea, spoke the words and will have gotten all the credit for his brilliant idea.

[InfiniteNow]

I gathered the impression that IN's text speaks of dissolution of bipartisan idealogy.

It was vague for a reason. Your comment above most certainly fits, but was not really a direct focal point while composing the opening post.

 

I agree that facts are often misconstrued....but...twisted like structural beams?

I see your point. Put the word "used" between "twisted" and "like" with a comma before. :)

 

 

Personally IN, I found it to be very eloquent and appropriate to this defensive and hateful society we live in.

Thank you for the kind words. I don't find the society itself as hateful, but I do notice hateful comments and ignorant type-casting seems to go unchecked much more frequently, resulting in greater polarization where it isn't needed. Except in very small towns, people who stereotyped others and engaged in isolationist thought processes were frequently ostracized. Through social modelling behavior, they would learn to accept those who were different from them, or risk completely separating themselves from the larger group.

 

We inherently desire connections with others, humans having evolved as pack animals, where connection to a group significantly increased one's chances in passing on their genes to the next generation. So the motivation to let go of bigotry is quite strong when one is a member in a collective that does not accept such behavior. Now, one can simply go online or listen to AM radio and not only find others who agree with them, but others who feel even more strongly about the topic than they do. I tried to touch on this in my "The Fundamental Polarization of Society" thread, but it unfortunately got derailed. :)

 

 

yes, people are individuals, but it is impossible to retrofit every law and every judgement so that everyone is happy. blanket-rulings are a way to hopefully make the majority of the percentages happy, so that there are less people complaining...:shrug:

As I mentioned to Freeztar, your comment above most certainly fits, but was not really a direct focal point while composing the opening post. It's unfortunate that some laws and rulings are heavily biased, and tend to be enforced by the letter of the law instead of the spirit. This makes the system weak, and those who rely on it vulnerable. Is it black and white? Must we either cater to the majority or the minority? One would hope that we are smart enough to find solutions which are dynamic enough to work in most circumstances, and enforcers of the law who are more altruistic than ambitiously selfish.

 

I contend that with increasing population and shrinking resources, we are more ferocious toward our neighbors. We protect our immediate family while forgetting that we are part of a much larger global family. It's not an easy thing to incorporate into our cavepeople brains, but it's quickly becoming required. In the spirit of Spock... The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... or the one. :phones:

 

 

Please do not misundertake me, :phones:

Should the words in my opening post apply as well to a disgusting corporation like Shell and the other oil giants? Maybe Umaru Yar'Adua will improve the lives of his people more than Olusegun Obasanjo. We'll see. ;)

[Racoon]

 

 

Thank you for the kind words. I don't find the society itself as hateful, but I do notice hateful comments and ignorant type-casting seems to go unchecked much more frequently, resulting in greater polarization where it isn't needed.

 

We inherently desire connections with others, humans having evolved as pack animals, where connection to a group significantly increased one's chances in passing on their genes to the next generation. So the motivation to let go of bigotry is quite strong when one is a member in a collective that does not accept such behavior. [/url]" thread, but it unfortunately got derailed. :phones:

 

 

Ever study History IN?

 

Since when have people of varying religions, races, and philosophy Ever gotten along for any extended period of time ??

 

People are people, and they aren't going to change, or hold hands and get along all the time.

Especially when you encourage population growth and open borders. ;)

 

You're just wrong in my book, Philosophically.

Because it hasn't worked, won't work, and your little happy-happy-get-along speech isn't going to work. :phones:

Not to mention your hypocrisy and condecending tones.

 

Haven't you not threatened violence after a verbal disagreemet yourself at one time or another ? here or otherwise?

 

Its all great when they agree with you at the time though, huh?

[Tarantism]

while im not going to disagree with you, racoon, i will say that there are some people who would tell you that its exactly that attitude that keeps things from changing.

 

if we could somehow get every one to agree to disagree and not want to fore-feed their beliefs on others, then what infinate now has been saying could infact work.

 

but that will never happen...(sinks into well of depression over the way people are for 5 min.).

[InfiniteNow]

Haven't you not threatened violence after a verbal disagreemet yourself at one time or another ? here or otherwise?

I've been avoiding engaging you directly Racoon, however, you've now brought this comment up repeatedly so I will address it.

 

There will always be disagreements between individuals. My comment in the other thread about a broken nose was a direct response to Turtle, who had called me "boy" using an aggressive tone. I find such disrespectful comments and contempt worthy of correction, and was calling out the cowardice involved when one makes such a comment in an online forum where no consequences would be visited. The point was, were someone in the same room as me to show such contempt and disrespect by calling me "boy," my reaction would not be peaceful.

 

The issue that you are clearly missing here is that individual differences or disagreements are not the same as broad steriotypical type-casting based on the color of one's skin, the religion they choose to practice, or their country of origin. Had I said that all people from Oregon derserve to have broken noses or maybe all people who enjoy math and art are lacking in social responsibility and maturity, then your comments above would apply. However, I did not say either of those things, and was responding directly to an individual attack.

 

 

Please, wake up.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Hmm... I didn't think we were talking about making everybody agree.

 

I thought we were talking about judging people by their membership in a certain group.

 

Read this book.

 

TFS

[Racoon]

I've been avoiding engaging you directly Racoon, however, you've now brought this comment up repeatedly so I will address it.

 

There will always be disagreements between individuals. My comment in the other thread about a broken nose was a direct response to Turtle, who had called me "boy" using an aggressive tone. I find such disrespectful comments and contempt worthy of correction, and was calling out the cowardice involved when one makes such a comment in an online forum where no consequences would be visited. The point was, were someone in the same room as me to show such contempt and disrespect by calling me "boy," my reaction would not be peaceful.

 

The issue that you are clearly missing here is that individual differences or disagreements are not the same as broad steriotypical type-casting based on the color of one's skin, the religion they choose to practice, or their country of origin. Had I said that all people from Oregon derserve to have broken noses or maybe all people who enjoy math and art are lacking in social responsibility and maturity, then your comments above would apply. However, I did not say either of those things, and was responding directly to an individual attack.

 

 

Please, wake up.

 

I vividly recall you calling me "Tiger Boy"

Perhaps you don't remember?

But I clearly do.

 

It was actually a compliment in reality considering my affinity for Tigers.

But if you want to engage me directly, that would be fine also.

 

I think the "Broad case" misunderstanding is on your part, and not mine.

I never mentioned skin color or religion when talking about Illegal Immigration.

Maybe I have a thing against Muslims, but they have a thing against America.

So why not call a Spade a Spade?

 

I don't pretend to love every mutherfukker on the planet!

And I am one of the least hypocritical persons you'll find.

 

What you see is what you get..

 

The point being is you are No Visonary. And your social commentary is skewed in some utopian communist propoganda.