Ancient Tools

[TheBigDog]

OK, while touring the Louvre I came across an exhibit in the Egyptian section that had some interesting items in in that I thought would make for some good discussion here at Hypo, so here we go...

 

This tool is, uh, I am not quite sure. I think it might be a ruler, but it might be a calculator of some kind. There is an explanation in French that someone might be able to translate. Under the item is a mirror which shows the inscriptions on the bottom side.

 

 

I am not sure why I cannot link the picture in, here is a higher resolution image...

 

Any ideas?

 

Bill

[freeztar]

Well, I babelfished the words "coudee" and "regle" and they mean "bent" and "rule" repectively.

 

So I would say you are on the right track with ruler. :thumbs_up

[Tarantism]

my tri-lingual fiancee just took a look at it and she told me:

 

"well, i think it says code, and it also says maya and it refers to king tut. it looks like something that the mayans traded with king tut..."

 

:thumbs_up

[InfiniteNow]

And I thought this was going to be a thread about Andy Rooney. :thumbs_up

[Turtle]

my tri-lingual fiancee just took a look at it and she told me:

 

"well, i think it says code, and it also says maya and it refers to king tut. it looks like something that the mayans traded with king tut..."

 

:shade:

 

Intriguing!!! Not too long ago I ran across something about Egyptian artifacts turning up in the New World, but at the moment I can't recall the source. Although contraversial, there is evidence for pre-Columbian trans-oceanic voyages by many cultures including the Egyptians.

The similarity between the Egyptian pyramids and the temples of some New World civilizations — such as the Mayas, Aztecs, and Incas — has fueled speculations that either the Egyptians had traveled to the Americas, or that the civilizations on both sides of the ocean had sprung from a common source (such as the mythical lost continent of Atlantis).

Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Perhaps Bill's artifact find is a type of 'rule Rosetta Stone' used to facilitate conversion of measures for trading purposes. :) The plot thickens. :singer:

 

addendum: another Egyptian artifacts in Americas reference>> Ancients in America

[eric l]

I'll give it a try to transcript and translate. (translation in italics)

 

Coudé (règle) de Màya, ministre des Finances du roi Toutânkhamon

Yardstick of Màya, finance minister to king Tutankhamun

1356-1327 av. J.C. 18e dynastie

1356-1327 BC 18th dynasty

bois

wood

Cette coudée de 51.3 cm est divisée en 28 "doigts" de 1.86 cm qui se fractionnent de 1/2 (a droite) = 9.3 mm à 1/16 = 1.16 mm

This yardstick measuring 51.3 cm is divided in 28 "fingers" of 1.86 cm, divided in 1/2 (to the right) = 9.3 mm till 1/16 = 1.16 mm

 

I translated "coudé" as yardstick. Litterally it is a measure equal to the length from fingertips to elbow. I tought the term fitting.

[Qfwfq]

Litterally it is a measure equal to the length from fingertips to elbow.

Often called cubit.

[Turtle]

I'll give it a try to transcript and translate. (translation in italics)

 

Coudé (règle) de Màya, ministre des Finances du roi Toutânkhamon

Yardstick of Màya, finance minister to king Tutankhamun

1356-1327 av. J.C. 18e dynastie

1356-1327 BC 18th dynasty

bois

wood

Cette coudée de 51.3 cm est divisée en 28 "doigts" de 1.86 cm qui se fractionnent de 1/2 (a droite) = 9.3 mm à 1/16 = 1.16 mm

This yardstick measuring 51.3 cm is divided in

28 "fingers"

of 1.86 cm, divided in 1/2 (to the right) = 9.3 mm till 1/16 = 1.16 mm

 

 

Thanks eric. curiously , I count only 24 divisions on the rule? I looked up Egyptian numerals, and see only a few symbols on the right half that match.

Egyptian mathematics Any indication Bill, where it was found? :dog:

[Tarantism]

a problem is that it is very difficult to transcrible egyptian glyphs. probably the reason that only a few symbols match the numerals is because most of the incriptions are not numbers, but rather glyphs? :dog:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decipherment_of_hieroglyphic_writing

[Tarantism]

or perhaps if the symbols on the right side match then it could be a measuring stick that converts mayan measurements into egyptian numerals, and this "yardstick" could have been used in other trades?

[Turtle]

maybe you are looking in the wrong corner? :shrug: if it was traded from the maya To King Tut then wouldn't the numerals be mayan?

 

I now get the impression from eric's translation that Tut's finance minister's name is Maya, not that it refers to the Maya people of America. I looked at the Maya number system and it is different from Egyptian and not symbolized on the rule. A key difference is the Maya had a zero & not so the Egyptians.

 

Maya Numerals

 

Still, one wonders if the similarity in names is more than a coinkydink. :shrug: :doh:

[TheBigDog]

I found some more information on the Louvre website. Here is a link to the detailed description of this artifact...

 

Coudée (règle) de Mâya, ministre des Finances du roi Toutânkhamon | Musée du Louvre

 

Plus some excerpts...

Cubit rod (rule) of Maya, treasurer of Tutankhamun

 

The recording of the harvest and the annual survey of agricultural land after the Nile flood, which displaced the marker stones, were two of the foundations of Egyptian bureaucracy. The unit of length was the cubit (of approximately 52.5 cm), and this is a particularly well-preserved cubit rod, which bears the name of a high official, Maya, royal treasurer under Tutankhamun and Horemheb.

 

Some interesting history and information about this cubit rule. Maya has ended up in a museum in Leiden, where I will be visiting several times over the next years.

 

I am more intrigued now than before!

 

Bill

[eric l]

 

Some interesting history and information about this cubit rule. Maya has ended up in a museum in Leiden, where I will be visiting several times over the next years.

 

 

Bill

 

Museum in Leiden ? If you need someone to translate from Dutch, you know where tro find me !

[Giles Corey]

I am amazed that you guessed correctly on the name, "Maya"

Prehaps it comes from my lack of knowledge that i would not have been able to come to such a connection.

~Giles