Huge Galaxy Collision!!!

[Pluto]

Hello All

 

When galaxies collide, the initial collision is not so chaotic as Jay said in his post.

 

On the other hand given enough time, billions of years two or more galaxies will eventually form one. Black holes will merge, stars will collide, stars will be sucked in by roaming black holes. New stars and black holes will be formed and so on.

 

This is not the case for all. Other ends may occur.

[Jay-qu]

Hello All

 

When galaxies collide, the initial collision is not so chaotic as Jay said in his post.

 

On the other hand given enough time, billions of years two or more galaxies will eventually form one. Black holes will merge, stars will collide, stars will be sucked in by roaming black holes. New stars and black holes will be formed and so on.

 

This is not the case for all. Other ends may occur.

funny about that.. I thought I said the matter passes straight through :confused:

[New-ideas]

Thanks guys :pirate: So am I to understand it that black holes simply merge together when they collide, if so, does this process have a name?

[Jay-qu]

Thanks guys :D So am I to understand it that black holes simply merge together when they collide, if so, does this process have a name?

Black hole collision and merger? :lol: I think thats a descriptive enough name. One of my math lecturers does computer simulations of black hole collisions and the resulting gravitational waves ;)

[Pluto]

Hello All

 

 

A megamerger in space: Two black holes collide | csmonitor.com

 

 

A megamerger in space: Two black holes collide

 

================================================

 

The initial merger of any galaxy is quite slow, due to the large distances and the collisions will be rear.

 

Because of the gravity sink, matter will tend to merge in time.

 

Galactic cannibalism causes quasars' glow, Hawaii astronomers say - The Honolulu Advertiser

 

Galactic cannibalism causes quasars' glow, Hawaii astronomers say

 

 

Galactic collision – a taste of things to come? - space - 26 August 2005 - New Scientist

 

Two colliding galaxies in the constellation of Pisces may foreshadow the fate of Earth and the Milky Way billions of years from now.

[New-ideas]

Thanks, Thats a cool thought, the size of the gravitational waves produced must surely have an effect on the surrounding matter, considering how powerful a black hole is, the collision must produce tons of energy?

[Jay-qu]

Thanks, Thats a cool thought, the size of the gravitational waves produced must surely have an effect on the surrounding matter, considering how powerful a black hole is, the collision must produce tons of energy?

produce? release perhaps, but it wont be making it :)

 

These massive galactic black holes can sometimes already be very active, spewing out loads of energy! Have a look at active galactic nuclei

[Pluto]

Hello Jay

 

 

Active galactic nucleus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I read the link before

 

As with most links they credit the jets to accretion and not to the internal matrix of the compacted core (BH).

 

Look at the following link, supermassive BH in a galaxy cluster far far away 4.8 Gyrs.

 

Chandra :: Photo Album :: 3C438 :: 30 May 07

 

The Black Hole is ejecting huge amount of matter.

[Hilton Ratcliffe]

Hi New Ideas and Jay Qu

 

Thanks, Thats a cool thought, the size of the gravitational waves produced must surely have an effect on the surrounding matter, considering how powerful a black hole is, the collision must produce tons of energy?

 

Correction, the collision of Black Holes themselves would not detectably produce or radiate energy. The escape velocity of Black Holes is too high, and radiation (the means by which energy travels) would be contained within the event horizon(s). Hawking radiation, if it exists at all, is insignificant. So this is a test: If the event being observed and measured is emitting radiant energy, then it is either not a BH event, or the radiation is coming from associated, non-Black Hole objects. I find that a collision of neutron stars would better fit the data, without the need to invoke Black Holes at all.

 

Best

Hilton

[Pluto]

Hello Hilton

 

I disagree

 

The merger of black holes have to account for the jets they produce. I would expect very high energy outburst of matter during and after the merger.

 

Not only that, the surrounding stars would join in, in the "Last tango".

 

SPACE.com -- Pair of Supermassive Black Holes Inhabit Same Galaxy, Destined to Collide

 

 

APOD: 2006 April 12 - Binary Black Hole in 3C 75

 

The two bright sources at the center of this composite x-ray (blue)/ radio (pink) image are co-orbiting supermassive black holes powering the giant radio source 3C 75. Surrounded by multimillion degree x-ray emitting gas, and blasting out jets of relativistic particles the supermassive black holes are separated by 25,000 light-years. At the cores of two merging galaxies in the Abell 400 galaxy cluster they are some 300 million light-years away. Astronomers conclude that these two supermassive black holes are bound together by gravity in a binary system in part because the jets' consistent swept back appearance is most likely due to their common motion as they speed through the hot cluster gas at 1200 kilometers per second. Such spectacular cosmic mergers are thought to be common in crowded galaxy cluster environments in the distant universe. In their final stages the mergers are expected to be intense sources of gravitational waves.

 

That does not mean its correct.

 

Theoretically speaking Hilton is correct, without any other influences we would not see the merger.

 

 

binary black holes

FIRST COMPUTATIONS OF THE ORBITS IN A BINARY BLACK HOLE SYSTEM

 

 

Universe Today » Binary Black Holes Modeled on Computer

 

Scientists at Penn State have reached a new milestone in the effort to model two orbiting black holes, an event expected to spawn strong gravitational waves. "We have discovered a way to model numerically, for the first time, one orbit of two inspiraling black holes," says Bernd Bruegmann, Associate Professor of Physics and a researcher at Penn State's Institute for Gravitational Physics and Geometry. Bruegmann's research is part of a world-wide endeavor to catch the first gravity wave in the act of rolling over the Earth.

 

 

Chandra Press Room :: Proto Supermassive Binary Black Hole Detected in X-rays :: April 6, 2006

 

These two black holes became gravitationally bound when their host galaxies collided. In several million years, the two black holes will probably coalesce causing a burst of gravitational waves, as predicted by Einstein's theory of relativity. This event will produce one of the brightest sources of gravitational radiation in the Universe. Although we will not be around to see this particular one, the observations provide additional evidence that such bound systems exist and are currently merging. The gravitational waves produced by these mergers are believed to be the biggest source of gravitational waves to be detected by the future Laser Interferometer Space Antenna (LISA).

Chandra :: Photo Album :: NGC 6240 :: 19 Nov 02

 

 

Proto supermassive binary black hole detected in X-rays

Proto supermassive binary black hole detected in X-rays

 

 

Abstract: B7.00002 : Binary Black Holes: Mergers, Dynamics, and Waveforms

APS - 2007 APS April Meeting - Event - Binary Black Holes: Mergers, Dynamics, and Waveforms

[New-ideas]

Oh Christ! I'm confused now, as far as I'm aware, black hole collisions release energy ( in the form of radiation) on massive a scale, I mean a merging of that size must surely release energy? Surely it would be spewing out all sorts of radiation because of the energy used by the black holes to merge at all?

[Hilton Ratcliffe]

Hi Pluto,

 

You miss my point I think. You are assuming that the sources of the jets and radiation are Black Holes. What I am saying is that if they radiate or emit jets, then by definition they are not Black Holes. Neutron stars (or MECOs) can show the symptoms you describe. Black Holes cannot.

 

Newideas, if you hang around Black Holes long enough, you are going to be confused, trust me! To answer your question, consider what a Black Hole is (or is supposed to be, since they have never been observed). In simple terms, a BH is an object that is so dense that its escape velocity exceeds the speed of light. That is why they are called "black" - not even light can escape the gravitational pull. If light can't escape, what can? Only gravity itself. The only type of BH radiation posited in theory is Hawking radiation, which is a quantum trickle.

 

Best

Hilton

[Buffy]

You miss my point I think. You are assuming that the sources of the jets and radiation are Black Holes. What I am saying is that if they radiate or emit jets, then by definition they are not Black Holes. Neutron stars (or MECOs) can show the symptoms you describe. Black Holes cannot.

This is an assumption that does not make sense though.

 

You are insisting that if it is a black hole, it can have no interaction whatsoever with the space outside of its event horizon. The massive gravitational effect that by definition exists in the area near a black hole however makes it very difficult to postulate that there would be no disturbance of matter, and thus no possibility that a black hole could cause any jets or other visible effects.

 

Do you have a theory that explains why black holes would cause no visible effects?

 

Something there,

Buffy

[Pluto]

Hello All

 

Hello Hilton

 

Man is controlled by laws and definitions.

 

A Black Hole is in question. Not many know the workings. Some do not even think that a black hole even exists. According to Prof Oliver Manuel, I think I can record what he siad, Neutrons make up the denses object and that the so called black holes are made up of Neutrons.

 

Some say that Black holes are degenerated matter made of Neutron mergers, composite Neutron/quarks or composite quarks and or theoretical preonparticals.

 

What ever they are made from, there is a general rule that all compact matter has similar properties and that Jets are Jets regardless.

 

One of the definitions of a Black Hole is that it has a singularity. In theory this maybe correct, but in reality I cannot see it.

 

A black Hole in theory has strong forces much greater than the forces of a neucleus of an atom. These forces create a zone where all electromagnetic forces lead to ROME. We just see a slight picture of this on our sun, near sunspots, now assume the extreme. Light EMR, cannot escape the compact core (BH).

 

One of the greatest mistakes to this date is that most think that black holes only suck thing in and are unable to put out and that the Jets created are by infalling matter. This line of thinking restricts the potential recycling process that black holes are meant to do. Pump out and reform the galaxies and cluster of galaxies with massive jets that are created and driven by the internal matrix of the compacted core.

 

In cases of stars these jets reform and recycle the solar envelope.

 

In cases of galaxies they reform the shape of the galaxy. These jets are measured at 100,000 Gyrs. Google for galaxy evolution.

 

See M87 elliptical Galaxy, is sprayed by the jets at random by the active neucleon forming an elliptical galaxy. When this Neucleon reduces in activity the galaxy in time will form a spiral galaxy and for billion of years the matter gradually sucked into the small black holes found throughout the galaxy and also to the centre, until one day the main BH becomes super active again, reforming an elliptical galaxy.

 

In cases of Clusters of galaxies the active Neucleons are so massive, over 10 billion sun masses, that M87 becomes a baby at 3 billion sun massses.

 

The jets created, spray deep space at depths of millions of light years, with the potentional of actually forming new galaxies.

 

So thinking that Black Holes only suck in, stops a process that is the key to recycling.

 

Hey! thats my opinion.

[Hilton Ratcliffe]

Hi Harry,

 

According to Prof Oliver Manuel, I think I can record what he siad, Neutrons make up the denses object and that the so called black holes are made up of Neutrons.

 

I fear you are misquoting Oliver. The principle that he illustrates in compact objects is that because of neutron repulsion, objects do not collapse beyond nuclear densities. He does not say that neutron stars are Black Holes. On the contrary, he and I both argue that n-repulsion prevents the formation of Black Holes, and that hyper gravity and high-energy radiation at galactic nuclei (not nucleons, Harry) are effects produced by n-stars, either singly or more likely in pairs or groups. It is interesting to note that GRT forbids the formation of Black Holes, as Einstein strongly argued when he was at Princeton.

 

Having said that, I support your notion of a recycling universe of apparently infinite duration. Just substitute "compact real objects" for Black Holes and I'm with you! :)

 

Regards

Hilton

[Hilton Ratcliffe]

Hi Buffy,

 

You are insisting that if it is a black hole, it can have no interaction whatsoever with the space outside of its event horizon. The massive gravitational effect that by definition exists in the area near a black hole however makes it very difficult to postulate that there would be no disturbance of matter, and thus no possibility that a black hole could cause any jets or other visible effects.

 

Black Holes, by definition cannot detectably radiate (ignore gravitational waves and Hawking radiation). Therefore, the effects being described here are caused directly by objects outside the event horizon. The function of the Black Hole in these events would only be that of a source of intense mass energy. If we can substitute compact objects for Black Holes - and it is my view that we can - then we have a less controversial (and maybe less interesting and exciting :)) solution for what we see.

 

Best

Hilton

[Pluto]

Hello Hilton

 

I agree with you.

 

To my way of thinking, the so called black holes are compacted matter.

 

Your right I did miss quote Oliver. I looked up the paper to confirm.

 

Are you saying that these neutron compact matter are able or unable to prevent light from escaping.

 

Thank God your hear.