You can get tasered for asking an unpatriotic question

[alexander]

I commonly start with this phrase, so I wont change my tradition, and start in the same way I always do when it comes to politics.

 

What The Hell is wrong with this world?

 

AlterNet: Blogs: Video

 

This is a AlterNet video and article on a college student that gets detained and tasered in the middle of asking John Kerry, why he didn't contend the election results, and why nothing has been done so far to impeach Bush. Apparently you can be detained in the US for asking an unpatriotic question? And don't play devil's advocate here and say that he wasn't giving Kerry any time to answer, infact if you watch the vid, Kerry speciffically says "That's all right, let me answer his question." just as the body guards start detaining the guy, and even Kerry himself stated later on that although the guy seemed to be heckling, what was done to him was not right... Like what's next, they will start detaining people because they think you may have unpatriotic thoughts, oh wait they already have, under the partiot act...

 

Anyways, a parallel comes into mind, what would have happened if this was happening in Europe... Probably similar to the Meganova's answer to MediaDefender Damage Control letter: Meganova Site news: MediaDefender Damage Control: Cease and Desist!

[Buffy]

I don't think the guy should have been tasered, but he was sure asking for it:

• He pushed his way to the front of a line of people who were waiting to ask questions.
  
• He did not wait for any answers, he just kept asking questions, most of which seemed to be statements rather than questions.
  
• He used up his time, which was being limited so that more people could ask their own questions.
  

I'd call him a selfish jerk.

 

And Kerry did try to answer his questions and the audience and organizers were all basically sympathetic with his basic statements. Its *really* hard to find a sinister "suppression of political thought" in this episode.

 

He was just a self-centered turkey who wanted to hear himself talk.

 

I've had to deal with situations like this in my professional life, and I'd recommend to the police here that the best way to deal with these types is to give them more rope to hang themselves with, and then leverage the crowd to popularly boo the jerks off the stage. If you are going to try to drag them off, do it very gently so that they take the first swing making charges of assault easy to justify.

 

But the bottom line is, I have no sympathy for the guy at all. He was acting like a wingnut conservative.

 

Manners matter,

Buffy

[alexander]

You see, i think the issue did not have to get physical at all, and that Kerry should have handled it. I have seen situations like this, and the best way to handle that, from what i've seen is by a reverse attack by the speaker. I agree that it was more of statements presented in a question, and the guy was an *******, and i don't feel bad for him for that, but still, use of force was unnecessary and it almost seemed that taking him out was a way of not having to go unpatriotic on Kerry's part (even though he was against it)

 

Btw the best way i have seen it handled was at the last HOPE at the "Privacy Is Dead, Get Over It" talk (or at least i think that is what the talk was).

[eric l]

Lately I've often been wondering with some news items from the US (or even with some postings on this forum) whether it was fact or satyre.

There was this French song "Faut-il pleurer, faut-il en rire ?" ("is it for wheeping or is it for laughs ?) and I can't seem to get it out of my head.

I must admit that it applies to Belgian and local politics just as well.

[Qfwfq]

I wouldn't call it satire Eric, or funny either.

 

I don't know a source for the points Buffy states but, even assuming them, it's clear they don't justify the action taken. Certainly he wasn't heckling or anything after the words: "...the same secret society?" At that point there was quite a moment of silence, while he awaited Kerry's reply, but the guards stared at him and then started moving in with an obvious intention. It's clear that they moved in due to his implication about politicians. I don't find it hard at all to find any "suppression of political thought" in this episode, regardless of any agreement with the insinuations.

 

Call the guy a selfish jerk, call him an a. h. and accuse him of heckling but the fact remains, it was the Thought Police that stepped in, else Kerry would have handled it. Ya wanna exercise your right to free speech in any modern democratic nation? Make sure you can afford some good lawyers, have enough support and that you're prepared to face the abuse.

[eric l]

It is a bit by accident that my remark about satire got posted in this thread, there have been ever so many occasions for the same reflexion.

 

What I mean is that we were raised (I am 60, so I am speaking of the 1950's)with the US as a shining light. They had won the war for us, and they were the very example of freedom and democracy.

 

Appart from the fact that they don't win wars any more - whatever the generals may tell us or the general public in the US - it becomes difficult to keep seeing the US under that angle. It is hard for people of my generation to accept that such incidents are happening in the same US we used to worship.

[Qfwfq]

Oh that's what you meant by satire! I wouldn't have used the same term but now I see what you meant.

 

Yeah, the same happened here, although more strongly contrasted in the days of don Camillo e Peppone; we were soaking up propaganda for both sides and the commie rats were more stigmatized although not as much as the Fascists. Complicated, as well as the Cold War we were in the midst of the years of lead too and, oddly enough, believe it or not, the Yanks and other NATO nations (and even the neutral Switzerland) weren't extraneous to the black terrorist actions. The strategy of tension was just yet another instrument against Communism and the Soviet threat.

[alexander]

and it once again proves my point you do NOT have the freedom of speech in US, and although nobody will publicly shoot you for exercising it, you can easily be arrested on other charges, and for no reason! (hello patriot act...)

[Qfwfq]

Yup it's unpatriotic to make allusions about Kerry and Bush belonging to a masonic lodge.

 

"They didn't otter have showed that!"

[CraigD]

I’ve not scrutinized the video of Andrew Meyer’s Thomas A Swift Electric Rifling, but found the video taken after the TASERing, while police were holding him near the outer doors of the building, very revealing. Meyer was crying out to anyone within earshot to help him, stating that the police intended to take him away and kill him.

 

Some opinions I have read and heard expressed on television suggest that Meyer is a habitual attention seeker, noting that he had a web presence promoting pranks and practical jokes. Based on the brief recording of his behavior near the entrance, I believe this is incorrect or incomplete. Meyer’s behavior is characteristic of paranoid schizophrenia, or possibly, but less likely IMHO, anxiety/panic disorder. My impression is that, when he has confronted by the police, he became convinced that he would be harmed, and when it became clear that he would not be released, that he would be killed. This is consistent with the focus of his questions to Kerry, which appeared to suggest a conspiracy in which G W Bush and Kerry were secretly allied in the 2004 election, due to their membership in the secret society Skull and Bones. Such claims are common elements of the often elaborate and creative delusional systems of a paranoid schizophrenic.

 

Police are often ill trained and prepared to handle mentally ill people, associating their erratic and often physically vigorous (and potentially dangerous) behavior as purposeful aggression, rather than mental imbalance. I suspect that the University of Florida police involved in the TASERing , two of whom may face disciplinary action for their handling of Meyer, mishandled the situation for this reasons, not due to an effort to, for example, silence public mention of such details as Bush and Kerry both being Bonesmen, which is not, after all, an especially secret fact.

[Qfwfq]

I quite agree and I'm not surprised if they get some disciplinary action, though the matter might have been glossed over if there hadn't been publicity of it. Of course it wasn't unknown about the Skull and Bones, my memory was vague, back from the campaign days, and I thought it was some masonic lodge but I think doubt is legitimate, without jumping too hastily to conclusions.

 

Now I read that Meyer was officially charged for disturbing the event and of course resistance to public officer but basically for not handing back the microphone when he should have. Reasonably, the police should have first intimated him to hand it back and return to his seat, when they moved in they should have first greabbed the mike; I didn't get this from the video at all.

[Zythryn]

He was an idiot. However I do think the taser was too much.

He wasn't peacefully asking his questions, he was escelating the situation with every questions. To the point of yelling and screaming BEFORE the police tried to escort him out of the area.

While the 'inciting a riot' charge may be a little over the line, it isn't by much.

Again, his questions/allegations aren't what got him in trouble, his delivery was.

The video shown also doesn't show the whole story. I am sure the ones I have seen haven't either, however they show more of it. Here is MSNBCs video: MSNBC Video

The campus police approached him during his shouted diatribe possibly 'warning' him. They didn't taser him until long after he started resisting and 5 police officers couldn't get a hold of him as he continued to resist.

As for other contries, there are likely contries where he simply would have beem shot.

 

Aside from that, I think campus police are nervous about letting any issues on campus grounds escelate out of control.