Shutting down a democracy

[TheBigDog]

So a branch is dead, sever it.

Let it regrow.

One year and one week until election day. :eek_big:

[Pyrotex]

All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

 

Edmund Burke

[Pyrotex]

One year and one week until election day. :eek_big:

You're awfully optimistic there, Big Dog.

[Queso]

One year and one week until election day. :eek_big:

 

The elections are rigged, man. Whether you want to believe it or not.

No matter who the president is, there's something else going on that they refuse to tell us.

 

I refuse to vote. Why bother?

Just look what happened last time.

Reminded me of being in middle school.

 

Elections are not a way to sever a branch.

NOT ANYMORE, at least.

I don't know how to sever the dead and corrupt bastards from their high horse other than laughing in disbelief.

 

Right now they are growing and that is what's disturbing to me.

Growing further out as a branch,

and seeping deeper into the root of the metaphor.

[TheBigDog]

You're awfully optimistic there, Big Dog. :eek_big:

I have faith that the political system is a living ecosystem of sorts that already has the mechanisms for correcting itself. Even when I am not thrilled with an administration or policies, the ebb and flow of ideologies is given natural movement through the system of elections. It is a framework for social evolution that is quite robust, far more so than ever given credit by the doomsayers of every generation.

 

There is nothing new in the worries of this thread, just the dates and names.

 

Bill

[Zythryn]

I refuse to vote. Why bother?

 

Right now they are growing and that is what's disturbing to me.

 

You answer your first question with your second statement.

'They' grow because you and many others have given up. But you have given in to THEM. So don't act surprised or displeased that they are in power when you don't bother deposing them via the voting ballot.

[Inter.spem.et.metum]

Voting in this election would indicate that I support our system, and I don't. There isn't a single candidate that isn't a whore for the media, and a complete farce. You have to be to win in this country which is disgusting. I would vote independent, but what would be the purpose? Just to be insulted because I screwed up the votes for one of the two parties? This country is authoritarian when you cut through all the shiny tape..

[Queso]

You answer your first question with your second statement.

'They' grow because you and many others have given up. But you have given in to THEM. So don't act surprised or displeased that they are in power when you don't bother deposing them via the voting ballot.

 

I Understand where you're coming from...

but...

Why do we even need a president?

They're just actors. That's their job. To lie to us. To BE the president.

 

If there was someone who had the potential to revive the US government with some ethics then I guess I'd vote for him,

 

but the elections appear to be rigged. So . . uh . .

 

this isn't the point, though. The way I see it the government is some dumb game that you can play or not. That's a whole different topic of discussion.

Or is it?

[Turtle]

I want to draw a distinction between voting and simply registering to vote. Obviously you can't vote without registering, but less obvious is that you can register and still participate in political activism without voting.

 

The registered voter who writes/calls/communicates with elected officals carries more weight than similar contacts from unregistered voters. The registered voter can organize other voters, propose legislation, and in many other way influence government and still choose not to vote. The Presidential election is but a small part of votes for Federal officals and one can influence the President by electing people to the Legislature who will challenge the excutive branche's escalation of power taking.

 

This is not some fringe issue either, and I watched an extensive piece with Bill Moyers the other night covering the course of events and legal assertions in the current struggle to balance what many hold to be an imbalance of powers. >> Bill Moyers Journal . Power and the Presidency | PBS

 

Register to vote; it is if nothing else your license to whine. :phones:

[IDMclean]

It is important at this point for me to let everyone reading know that I mean much love and respect by all that I say. I realize that my words can have a harsh impact, but I mean what I say in a respectful and awe-inspired manner.:phones:

 

Voting in this election would indicate that I support our system, and I don't...

 

I agree in one portion and disagree in the other. Playing the game of course validates the game itself; however, I believe that playing the game is necessary to maintain moral conscience social-wise. I support the foundations of this country and the government but I do see how the foundations are flawed and how they are damaged; furthermore, I realize that inaction is the incorrect course of action.

 

....I would vote independent, but what would be the purpose?...

 

The purpose is that you get to stand up when the tallies are finally counted and say for certain that "Hey! I voted for the other guy". As far as I am concerned people who fail to vote have little weight to statements like "I dislike X, they're a terrible Y". The difference to me is like speaking and holding your voice. If you are silent when you should speak then you are a coward. You are so caught up in your own fear and self-deprecation as to think for even a moment that your voice is insignificant. When I speak or write, I own my words. I hold responsibility, culpability and accountability for my thoughts and actions; thus, I have power. I will tell you here and now, you can change the world by your words, by your voice alone http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8zZZFRCePU.

 

Martin Luther King Jr. Wrote this beautiful piece titled "Three Ways of Meeting Oppression" In which he discusses the three fundamental ways by which one copes with oppression and first amongst them is acquiesce. This one is the one which is espoused each and everytime someone says "Why should I vote? They'll just win anyway". It was this method that was used during world war II that brought about another fantastic piece titled "First They Came..." by Pastor Martin Niemöller. You stand up and you take action because it is the right thing to do. Even if our democracy is a mockery, even if it is in it's death throes it is our duty as empowered and enabled citizens, as human beings, as The People of The United States to stand up and be counted.

 

It is easy to have the courage to speak, to do the right thing, when we know we are safe and secure, when we know others are watching, when we know our thoughts, opinions, behaviors, and words are welcome. It takes true courage to do the right thing when we know it will bring us harm, when we know other people are looking the other way, when we know we will be harassed and belittled for our thoughts, opinions, behaviors, and words. I believe that it is when victory is uncertain, that when our very livelihood is at stake, is when it is most critical that we act with courage and conviction.

 

I am trying to set an example for my generation because I worry that my generation will bring with it such deafening silence that much suffering will soon follow. My generation is like the calm before a storm and I hope that when the storm comes it is one which does the world good.

 

all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

 

All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

 

Edmund Burke

 

Bravery of the Soul

Each individual must be taught the art of self-defense. It is more a mental state that has to be inculcated than that our bodies should be trained for retaliation. Our mental training has been one of feeling helpless. Bravery is not a quality of the body, it is the soul. I have seen cowards encased in tough muscle and rare courage in the frailest body… The weakest of us physically must be taught the art of facing dangers and giving a good account of ourselves. (YI, 20-10-1921, p. 335)

 

We stand on the threshold of twilight-whether morning or evening twilight we know not. One is followed by the night, the other heralds the dawn. If we want to see the dawning day after the twilight and not the mournful night, it behoves everyone of us…to realize the truth at this juncture, to stand for it against any odds and to preach and practice it, at any cost, unflinchingly. (SW, p. 303)

 

It is important to note that World War I and II were started due to a long and painful silence around the world economically. The Nazi's took power when the German people were beat and acquiescent. Terrible things always follow when a people's spirit is broken.

 

Moral of the story: you have no virtuous and consequential reason to avoid voting. Democracy works on the ideal that you take action; you want change, be the change.

 

The truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end there it is. - Winston Churchill

 

Thank you for your time and consideration,

The Clown

[C1ay]

Pretty sweeping statement to categorize the entire [Federal] government as corrupt when it is the Executive branch that is under indictment here. :naughty:Do you or any others suggest the Supreme Court is corrupt? :shrug:The entire Legislative branch?:hihi: Ineptness aside, the very whirlwind around the issue is evidence that there is active challenge underway supported by both the spirit and the law of the US Constitution. Let Freedom ring. :hyper:

 

IMO we do have problems in all 3 branches.

 

In Kelo vs New London for example the Supreme Court ruled that it was OK for local governments to take private property from citizen A and give it to citizen B simply because citizen B could generate higher property taxes for the government.

 

In Hein v. Freedom From Religion Foundation, Inc. the court ruled that the President's initiative to ensure that faith based community groups can compete for federal financial support is not a violation of the seperation of church and state.

 

Even Rehnquist solicited a belief in God from the President when he administered the inaugural oath.

 

The Senate was corrupted with the enactment of the 17th Amendment which made the Senate representatives of the people instead of the States.

 

Recent Bills like the one that attempted to create sweeping amnesty for illegal aliens over the protests of the population at large illustrate the fact that the House of Representatives is not trying to represent the people. Their inaction over rulings like that in Kelo vs New London further highlight the fact that they are not listening to the people.

 

All in all I think the government "of the people" has found a number of ways to make an end run around the very intents of our Constitution :eek:

[Inter.spem.et.metum]

The Declaration of Independence also states that it is the duty of the people to dissolve any government they feel is being destructive to their way of life. The Declaration doesn't mean anything anymore. It was just a way for a group of powerful people in the colonies to rally the people against someone stronger than them.

[Queso]

Dissolve?

 

I like that.

[C1ay]

The Declaration of Independence also states that it is the duty of the people to dissolve any government they feel is being destructive to their way of life.

 

No it doesn't. There's a copy right here. Feel free to point that part out.

[LaurieAG]

No it doesn't. There's a copy right here. Feel free to point that part out.

 

Hi C1ay,

 

The quote (below) was in reference to why the declaration was written in the first place.

 

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

[C1ay]

Hi C1ay,

 

The quote (below) was in reference to why the declaration was written in the first place.

 

In context that quote is about separating themselves from the British Government and does not literally mean to actually dissolve the government in reference but to dissolve the bond with that government. I know, it's a small nitpick but literal interpretation is important with such documents.

[Buffy]

I know, it's a small nitpick but literal interpretation is important with such documents.

Personally, I hardly think its a nitpick: Revolution to completely overthrow a government is quite a bit more radical than for a relatively homogeneous and geographically distinct group to seek secession. The South was in fact making a similar move in seceding from the Union rather than trying to overthrow it. This is nothing like the Russian or French revolutions where the point was to literally get rid of--kill or imprison--the oppressive government (or worse, the entire "privileged" class), as opposed to simply being asked to be left alone as with secession.

 

King George and the North both had interests in battling such secession, and we can argue about the relative merits of each, but that's for another thread...

 

Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one, :eek_big:

Buffy