C1ay Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Here's a wacky thought. Can there be such a thing as an atheist Christian? One which believes in the philosophy and ideologies of Jesus Christ without believing in a God. I only ask because I saw someone on another forum refer to themself as a "non-believing Christian". Is it possible or is it simply an oxymoron? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric l Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 This is a tricky question. You can call yourself a disciple of Jesus without believing in God or resurection, e.g. because you accept the Sermon on the Mount as a guideline for your life.You can believe in God and in Ressurection and all that, without belonging to any denominationYou can be a full member of a church The generaly accepted definition of "Christian" would be the third item on the list. But it might be difficult to find a proper name for those of the first category, the name "Jesuit" being already claimed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-qu Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 I have heard what you are describing also as being a 'non-practicing christian' they like the way it works but dont want to have to believe in god and go to church to follow that system of ideals. I dont know if Atheist christian is the most correct, the terms seem to contradict themselves.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Although no one is "born" a Christian--as opposed to Jews who are Jewish as long as their mother is--if you were "christened"/"baptized" as a baby you'd be a Christian whatever your beliefs according to some Christian denominations, but by declaring "non-belief" you would be thrown out/excommunicated from others... Too many different varieties makes it really difficult to follow. I have enough problems with orthodox, conservative and reform... You know, the one with all the well meaning rules that don't work out in real life, :phones:Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted October 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 I dont know if Atheist christian is the most correct, the terms seem to contradict themselves.. I tend to agree. IMO you are either theist or not and if you are not then how do you claim to believe all of the stories Jesus claims are inspired by his father? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 ...so in other words, you're really coming up with a new definition of "Christian" which is "a follower of the philosophy of the person historically known as Christ:" which I do not believe conforms to any even moderately well-known "Christian denomination or sect" thus would be tantamount to creating your own new sect (something that certainly seems popular given the number that exist already!)... If you use this definition though, you've taken the theism out of it completely: Jesus was just a "really smart dude," with "cool ideas that let people live together and be nicer to each other." Don'tcha think? Trying not to get sucked into that horrible "difference between a philosophy and a religion" dialogue again though! There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy, :eek_big:Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted October 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 ...so in other words, you're really coming up with a new definition of "Christian" which is "a follower of the philosophy of the person historically known as Christ:" Not I. I ran across someone that claims this. IMO, if they are truly a non-believer then they are atheist and that excludes them from being Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queso Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Jesus was a hippy :eek_big: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Not I...."You" used here as an Indefinite Pronoun... How is it possible to find meaning in a finite world, given my waist and shirt size? :eek_big:Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenBond Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 One way it is possible, is in the context of a long life. For example, say someone started out believing in God, lost faith, became an aetheist, and then someday returned to their original faith, in the context of their life they were both. At one point they were both at the same time. At an unconscious level, one may never have left. Their fanaticism, while being an aetheist, could have been an over compensation for what they were trying to bury. After learning important lessons of life, their heart returns. Sometimes walking a mile in another person's shoes gives one a unique understanding one could not achieve any other way. In the end, one would never really know if the burying of the heart had been a push by God out of the nest, so one could learn some valuable lessons of life. When the lessons were completed, then it was time to return and put these valuable lessons of life to good use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inter.spem.et.metum Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 You can be anything you want. If this person believes in Jesus's teachings but not God, who is to say he or she doesn't? That's absurd! This is the problem with religion and those who don't understand it. They assume that their definition of that religion is the only valid one. I believe this to be why I am ridiculed so much. I believe in all religions as one message, which seems contradictory. But the messages don't contradict themselves unless you create that conflict in your mind. If you are saying that this person can not be a christian and an atheist, you are only trying to prove him or her wrong because the definitions conflict with your own. This person is a christian that doesn't believe in God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C1ay Posted October 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 This person is a christian that doesn't believe in God. But I thought Christianity claims and teaches that Christ is God. Can anyone confirm or refute this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDMclean Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I would think that you could be a Christian atheist. It's a decidedly odd creature but it works. It just means that you refute the existence of a god or deity of any kind. In which case you are making your own interpretation of the bible and the various teachings. In a way that's what I am. I agree with some of the teachings but disagree with much of the superstitious stuff. Who said that Christianity must include the Nameless God? People, right? In John 3:16-18 it states: 16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[g] Maybe one defines God outside of a theistic sense. Like I define god Panthesitically; thus, to me God is an existent entity rather than a metaphysical being. It is by the interpretation of the deity God that Christianity is theistic. Change that one assumption and the whole thing can easily be atheistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 The convoluted logic it takes to justify such a position is a waste of everyone's time. Why spend energy and resources arguing if one can be a vegetarian who just happens to eat meat? They're an omnivore for Christ's sake, now move on already. If one identifies as Christian, then they cannot simulatanously identify as Atheist. Tell this confused soul to quit riding the fence and quit trying to appeal to all sides of the issue. :phones: Pyrotex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 But I thought Christianity claims and teaches that Christ is God. Can anyone confirm or refute this?All the versions of it that I know of do, so like I said, you'd (y'all'd!) need to define your own Christian sect that was--as some would argue--a "philosophy" rather than a "religion" thus, no longer requiring that Jesus' teachings needed to be validated by virtue of the fact that he was the Son 'o God, but rather were justified on there own merits as useful and demonstrably beneficial social policy and human philosophy. I'd agree that that's *way* outside the common--and accepted--definition of "being a Christian." Formerly, when religion was strong and science weak, men mistook magic for medicine; now, when science is strong and religion weak, men mistake medicine for magic, :phones:Buffy InfiniteNow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDMclean Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Well, I would say that I accept Jesus's teachings on the virtue of the fact. It just so happens that the virtue of the fact is what I define as god. I trust that what my physics book says is at least somewhat true and I have faith in that fact. Science for me is based on faith(albeit active and critical faith rather than blind and dogmatic faith. Blind and dogmatic faith is an oxymoron to me). On the same measure as science I have faith in the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of the bible (in part). The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and truth is always self-evident. Buffy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Following the moral codes of Jesus whilst not believing in the supernatural qualities ascribed to any deity, would probably make such an animal a Bhuddist. InfiniteNow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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