Was the universe created by God?

[kcl0341]

Thanks for straightening me out! :shade: We get a lot of fundilogians here trying to "prove" god, and so you can understand my mistake. Have you read Richard Dawkin's "The God Delusion"???

 

I have not read the book yet but I know it is a good book. I have no attention to be against God but I have found no reasons that God should exist. Emotonally, it is more easy to rely on God and feel more safe. Betrand Russell said that religion is based mainly upon fear and Fear is the foundation of religion.

 

King Lee

[kcl0341]

Expand into what? If the universe is everything, there is no "outside" into which it can expand.

 

My point previously was your assertion that the Big Bang (or inflationary) model was attributed to Einstein, which it's not.

 

Also, if you are so certain that redshift is proof of that model, you may wish to view some of the posts on this site by a user named ColdCreation, who makes an extremely compelling case to the contrary.

 

 

It's good that you ask such tough questions, though. Just don't be afraid of challenges to your assertions and corrections to your assumptions (both of which should be welcomed).

 

Speaking of welcomes... welcome to Hypography. :shade:

 

 

Thanks for your encouragement. You are right! By definition, universe should occupy every space;then it has no more space for it to expand. I think Einstein did mention singularity which leads to Big Bang theory. I might be wrong. Anyway, the purpose of my paper is to explain that the universe was not created by God and God has nothing to do with our own world.

 

King Lee

[Pyrotex]

My point was that there are some things that are not attainable by humans, but do exist. The exact value of Pi, or at least a viable pattern, does exist. Can you think of in what?

I am truly sorry to have to inform you that the "exact" value of pi does not exist. This has been proven mathematically. There is a family of values for which no "exact" value exists--they are called the Transcendentals.

 

Perhaps you should focus on what you mean with the word "exact". Do you mean the final digit, N, in the expression pi = 3.141596...N that would terminate the expression? If that is what you mean, then no such N exists.

 

This is not a matter of humans not having the right technology, or not having enough time, or not being smart enough. There truly is NO EXACT value, and this has been proven. See the link above.

 

But don't let this bother you. :hihi: "Transcendental" is a very difficult concept to get your arms around. And the idea that pi has some "exact" value out there is very plausible and alluring.

[Inter.spem.et.metum]

And what if a pattern were finally found?

[Buffy]

What if everything started falling up?

 

Curiouser and curiouser, ;)

Buffy

[Pyrotex]

And what if a pattern were finally found?

I like Buffy's answer: 'what if everything started falling up?' because in a very real way, that's the perfect answer to your question.

 

You have asked a nonsense question. However, to give you credit, it is not OBVIOUS that it is a nonsense question (unless you're a mathematician). So, I shall try to answer it another way. What if a pattern in the digits of pi were finally found?

 

Well, it would mean (mathematically) that pi was a rational number, that is, there would exist two integers, a and b, such that pi = a/b. That is the ONLY way that a repeating pattern can exist in the digits of a real number.

 

But we have mathematical proofs (real proofs) that no such pair of integers a & b can possibly exist. If they did, then ALL of MATHEMATICS, from 1+1=2, ALL THE WAY UP, would be invalidated, and therefore ALL LOGIC, and ALL REASON.

 

It makes just as much sense to say, 'what if 1+1=7?' The question itself violates math and logic.

[kcl0341]

And what if a pattern were finally found?

 

What would be the the pattern? Would it be necessary for a super being or God,who is the only one capable to create a pattern of the universe? I am trying to show that the universe was not created by God and God has nothing to do with our own world.

 

King Lee

[Michaelangelica]

Hi to all the members of this Forums,

 

I have written over 30 pages concerning the topic "Was he universe created by God?" This paper has not been finished. I need to do more research and thinking before I could start writting again. I need some of your comments and advices.

 

 

King Lee

Probably

define "god"

"At first there was nothing. Then it exploded." -Terry Pratchett

 

You could do a bit of searching though the old Theology forums.

You might find them helpful, otherwise start a new thread.

 

Welcome to hypography:)

[Pyrotex]

What would be the the pattern?

It is impossible to say. And I mean impossible in the sense that your question violates reason, math, and the universe. It's like saying, "what if the direction "up" was really the color "pink"?" Unless you know enough math to understand my prevous link to Transcendentals in Wikipedia, the proof of what I say may not be clear to you.

Would it be necessary for a super being or God, who is the only one capable to create a pattern ...

There are some things that a god, any god, just cannot do.

Making 1+1=7 is one of those things.

Making the digits of pi have a repeating pattern is another.

Making a number evenly divisible by 4 BUT not divisible by 2 is another.

Making a rock so big "He" can't pick it up is another.

 

Grid help us... ;)

[kcl0341]

The First Cause

 

When we talk about the First Cause we are seeking the ultimate cause of the existence of matter. Energy is a matter for energy and matter is convertible. Space is a matter for it is like a fabric linking all the stars and other cosmological matter in the universe. The photon is a matter as it possesses the dual properties being waves and a particle. Indeed the universe is composed of matter.

 

The Big Bang created the universe but what had created the Big Bang or Singularity. So the Big Bang is not the First Cause. Before the Big Bang what would it be? It would be called “Nothing”. Could you imagine what is Nothing or describe it in any possible way? Space is not Nothing. What are about the music, laws of physics and mathematics? If I consider any attribute connected with matter is a matter, then music, laws of physics and mathematics will be classified as matter. The computer is a matter and the software is made for running the computer. So I would consider the software is a matter.

 

The best definition of Nothing is that Nothing is the exact opposite of Something which means matter. Could it be Nothing the First Cause? Then we have concluded nothing.

 

When the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening, it is one day. One’s whole life time starts from the first second of birth and the last second of death. We mankind have got used to the concept that everything has a beginning and ending. That is why we need to find out what is the First Cause of the universe. Would it be the universe just exists without a beginning and ending?

 

King Lee

[Tormod]

Sounds to me like a lot of nonsensical philosophical musings. :)

 

This introduction thread has become a discussion thread and I therefore close it. If you want to discuss philosophy, post in the Philosophy forum.