Theory of love

[coberst]

Theory of love

 

Occasionally when reading I run across a phrase or sentence or paragraph, which really rings a bell for me. The bell may be recognition of the compatibility of the point to my own conclusions or perhaps the point caused an epiphany, or other reasons. When I encounter such a point I often copy it and store it in a file for later analysis. One such point is as follows: “Platonic idea that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love”.

 

My analysis of this sentence led me down a long trail over an extended period of time to an understanding of the meaning of the statement and to an agreement with the meaning of that statement.

 

When studying philosophy I had read some of Plato’s work and had a slight remembrance of one of his Dialogues in which he dealt with the subject of love. After some study of the particular Dialogue in question and some further study of Plato’s general philosophy I realized what was meant by the point made in the sentence I had saved.

 

Plato wrote, “An unexamined life is not worth living”. I find this a bit hyperbolic but nevertheless agree with the general point. Plato also argued that the giving and receiving of knowledge, the active formation of another’s character, or the more passive growth under another’s guidance, is the truest and strongest foundation of love. Plato judged that the basis of love is centered upon the mutual struggle for truth.

 

I would not attempt to explain why Plato’s Idealistic philosophy leads to this conclusion but I think one can find justification for this point of view by considering the nature of the parent to progeny relationship. Considering the nature of evolution one might easily discover that the origin of love could be observed in the obvious relationship of present day mammals. The educational relationship between the animal mother and their progeny are evident to the most casual observer.

 

I often watch the Discovery Channel on TV. As you probably know this channel often has a great documentary on animal life. Their audio/visual presentations give the viewer wonderful insights into the life of animals. Often the animals in question are large mammals such as lions, gorillas, monkeys, etc. I find verification of Plato’s theory every time I see the relationship between mother and progeny in these documentaries.

 

Evolutionary Psychology is based on the theory that all human psychological traits, such as love, must be traceable to our evolutionary ancestors. The source of love in humans is evolved from the mother infant relationship in early mammals (perhaps).

 

I find this theory of love makes sense. Do you agree?

[IMAMONKEY!]

I would actually have to disagree on this point.

 

I think you are mixing up two different emotions. Filial Respect seems to be more prominent than love.

 

Take for example my situation. I hate my mother. With a fiery passion. Perhaps my case is slightly dysfunctional? However, I would think not given the sheer animosity that my friends and I display for our parents. In an earlier age we all had respect for our parents, but love? Nay, I think not.

 

Even now my respect is waning for my parents. Maybe I am being cynical but I don't believe true love exists between parent and child.

 

Rather I believe love exists between peers. Man to woman (or "father" to "mother").

 

Perhaps you are aproaching this too analytically? Love is a very confusing emotion, not easily understood, and seemingly defiant towards logic. And you find it in the whackiest of places.

 

My advice to you is give up on trying to understand the emotion itself and just accept it.

 

However if you are analyzing behavioral trends in human relationships then I could understand your curiosity and would support your endeavor whole-heartedly.

 

So would you kindly rephrase your original statement as such that I could understand it in a better light?

 

Thank you! :D

[coberst]

We have all kinds of ways to use the word love. If we remove all the contingencies we will find that in all cases the essence of love is an emotion, i.e. an instinct.

 

Without the guidance of the parent the young cannot survive. As I watch these shows of animals in the wild on the Discovery Channel it seems so clear to me that this is the origin of the instinct we call love.

 

Truth for a lion cub is what is the correct manner to deal with a snake, or an elephant, or etc. All of which the cub learns from the mother.

 

Love is an instinct without which mammals would not have survived.

 

I am not sure which statement you wish me to change.

[Pyrotex]

...Love is an instinct without which mammals would not have survived.....

mmmm... no, I can't agree with that. I think what Imamonkey may be pointing at is that your definition of "love" and the context in which you create examples of "love" are too broad and variable. And I agree with that.

 

First of all, my dictionary has more than 2 dozen definitions for "love". And I detected maybe 3 or 4 defs in your initial post. Certainly, mammal behavior between mother and pups (kits, whatever) LOOKS a lot like "love", but we can be certain that most of their behavior is instinctual. I really don't think you want to blur the distinction between "love" and instints. Do you? You might as well say that mammals could not have survived without "instincts". I would agree with that.

[coberst]

mmmm... no, I can't agree with that. I think what Imamonkey may be pointing at is that your definition of "love" and the context in which you create examples of "love" are too broad and variable. And I agree with that.

 

First of all, my dictionary has more than 2 dozen definitions for "love". And I detected maybe 3 or 4 defs in your initial post. Certainly, mammal behavior between mother and pups (kits, whatever) LOOKS a lot like "love", but we can be certain that most of their behavior is instinctual. I really don't think you want to blur the distinction between "love" and instints. Do you? You might as well say that mammals could not have survived without "instincts". I would agree with that.

 

 

 

I love chocolate, I love mom, and I love April in Paris. Love is an instinct and love is an abstract idea. Remove all the contingencies and you are left with the feeling we call love. That feeling resulting from the emotion is really what we are speaking of. We attach that feeling to many things. Just as we attach fear to many things and these emotions help the species to survive.

[IMAMONKEY!]

I love chocolate, I love mom, and I love April in Paris. Love is an instinct and love is an abstract idea. Remove all the contingencies and you are left with the feeling we call love. That feeling resulting from the emotion is really what we are speaking of. We attach that feeling to many things. Just as we attach fear to many things and these emotions help the species to survive.

 

I still say you are reading far too much into this.

 

And the statement I requested to be changed was that love is an instinct.

 

I cannot agree. The desire for love may be an instinct, but that is not ACTUALLY love.

 

Take for example my situation. I love grapes. I could eat them all day long. But the fact of the matter is that I derive pleasure from eating grapes in some way. Therefore the love of grapes is a learned behaviour. Correct?

 

However that does not take into account human relations. That is something else entirely.

 

Now I just so happen to be in love with a very wonderful girl. Unfortunately for very personal reasons I'd rather not state, we are not allowed to be together.

 

General symptoms of this affliction include dizzyness, light-heartedness, sexual arousal, and a heightened self-awareness. I would also go so far to say that such emotions can enhance natural kinesthesia although that's just me. :thumbs_up

 

Now. What I really want to know is exactly what you are trying to point out?

 

If your statement was that love is purely instinctual I would have to disagree on the grounds that if it was instinctual, it would be the sole motivation of every human being. Seeing as for certain periods of time, perhaps indefinitely, humans can supress this "instinct" entirely, I do not see how it could be such.

 

Parhaps you are confusing lust and love? The instinct to procreate is certainly much more instinctual than love itself. There is such a thing as a purely platonic relationship you know?

[coberst]

Imamonkey

 

We assign the same word to many things. I suspect that in many cases we are assigning the improper word. When I say I love cookies I suspect we are using the wrong word. However there is a feeling that results from emotion, which is an instinct, and that feeling like the feeling of fear can save or life. Without such an instinct the species could never have survived.

 

I am convinced that love is a feeling derived from the instinct called love and without this instinct you and I would not exists. The sex drive is another instinct and perhaps the two get confused. I have heard people speak about making love in the back seat of their Chevy. Why anyone would sit in a Chevy is beyond me.

[Hulio]

My theory of love.

If you love someone only emotionally, it's not real

If you love someone only interlectually, it's not real

But If you love someone emotionally and interlectually, then it's real

[IMAMONKEY!]

I think it would be best to define love before ANYTHING else is discussed.

 

So.

 

What exactly is love? Any answers? I'd like to hear from someone else first.

[InfiniteNow]

An arbitrary word used to describe a deeply rooted emotion which gives depth and breadth to connection.

[HydrogenBond]

An arbitrary word used to describe a deeply rooted emotion which gives depth and breadth to connection./QUOTE]

 

This definition also breaks down into conditional and unconditional love. A mother lioness may not give the same affection, if the odd baby lion doesn't smell exactly right. Animal love may be a form of conditional love. If the condition is met, then love. When the lion cub grows up, the condition is no longer met, and it gets the boot. Conditional love may be the most primitive type of love having its roots in animal behavior. One might love chocolate cake because it gives one pleasure. When this condition is no longer met then one will fall out of love with chocolate cake.

 

Humans are different in that they can express unconditional love. This is where there are no conditions set, but love is still given. This is a very unique type of love, that appears to step outside the animal within.

[Pyrotex]

...Humans are different in that they can express unconditional love. This is where there are no conditions set, but love is still given. This is a very unique type of love, that appears to step outside the animal within.

Unconditional love is based on "commitment". Commitment has no physical referent in the real world. It is a linguistic structure, a concept made up out of symbols and images in our human minds. I would suggest that all animals (excepting maybe a few) don't have enough forebrain for the construction of linguistic structures. And therefore cannot have unconditional love.

[Symbology]

 

Humans are different in that they can express unconditional love. This is where there are no conditions set, but love is still given. This is a very unique type of love, that appears to step outside the animal within.

 

I disagree. Other large brained mammals such as Elephants, dolphins, and whales have done many selfless and inexplicable acts on film for very old members of their herd that certainly seem to be based on unconditional love. Sometimes even for other species.

 

We are not all that special. Oh wait yes we do have one special characteristic:

Agent Smith to Morpheus in Matrix I:

I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure.

[Symbology]

It is said that about 70% of our communication is non-verbal. And I would contend that most of the unconditional part of love is expressed through that channel. It certainly has a structure and protocol and is a language all to its own.

 

But all animals I have seen or heard have their own sophisticated language, much of it non-verbal as well. In cases such as dogs or cats, even I can translate a dozen or so "phrases".

Here is a reasonable example of cross species unconditional love:

 

 

Scientists have been studying various species for a few decades now and have detailed out some fairly sophisticated languages for elephants, dolphins, and whales.

 

Just because we are not smart enough to understand their language yet, doesn't mean it's not complex.

 

[Symbology]

Here is my theory of how to detect love. It would fit in with many of the other definitions I have seen, but from an alternative vantage point.

 

The most precious thing we have to give is our lives. Sacrificing that, or at least the willingness to lay down one's life for someone else - to me is the greatest indication of love - for one's loved ones, friends, country, or even a stranger in a split second of selfless action.

 

That also includes giving up smaller parts of one's life. Even 5 minutes of time and attention. Gifts of time are usually the one's most appreciated. Especially if they give time back to the other person: Doing a chore for them, fixing a meal, or a contribution that gives them more time in their favorite hobby.

 

Now if we give up our time for money, that is generally called work. If we barter it for someone else's time and attention then that is probably called friendship. If we give it up with no expectation of any return. That is unconditional.

 

I believe that a large part of the natural affection we have for those that protect us (parents, soldiers, firefighters) is their willingness to give up their lives for us. Mentors and teachers that gives us part of their personal time with no need or expectation for us to return that favor, to me are also sharing their love.

 

I do believe that like other universal unexplainable behavior, it must be a hard wired instinct. (Though clearly some people didn't get as much of it as others.) But I think when we can look at human kind from the 30,000 ft vantage point, our behavior looks pretty much the same as an ant colony. And I believe that ants have love for their sisters as well, because I have seen them lay down their lives for each other, and never hesitate.

 

Now what that whole mass suicide in the pool thing the winged males are doing... I don't know... maybe they love the fish :)

[Rade]

Love is an emotional response to an object that one values. The object may be a metaphysical given thing (living or non-living), an event, an activity, a condition. When the emotional response is between humans involved in sexual relations it is called romantic love. The intensity of love can vary over time. To understand the concept of "love" one must understand the concept of "value". Simply, a value is that which via volition one acts to gain and/or keep. The metaphysical given has no a priori value, although, imo, it may have a priori beauty (e.g., it may have perfect harmony in and of itself). Given the above definition I see no logical reason why animals other than humans cannot love. Does not your dog or cat or horse, etc. love you unconditionally as much as you love them ?

[questor]

Do animals love, or is it instinct? Some animals will defend their newborn to the death, but after gaining maturity, the progeny is abandoned to live on its own. The expression ''thrown out of the nest'' relates to the fact that birds will not permit the young to linger too long at the parents home. A good idea for humans! A new lion pride leader will kill the offspring of the previous leader to have his own way with the females. They do not grieve, when the next estrus comes, they are ready to go again. The idea is to make room for the next brood, since one great instinct in animals is reproduction. Only man can fully appreciate the emotions we describe as love and fit the meaning of your sentence.