My belief in Global Warming is getting shaky

[InfiniteNow]

first of all, if you believe evolution then you know things change.

Evolution is not synonymous with change when viewed in it's proper biological context. It is also not about belief, it is about understanding, and recognizing how nature actually behaves.

 

second, where is the law that says the earth can't warm this fast?

There is no such law, nor has anybody suggested there is. Regardless how fast the climate is changing, there still must be some method of action leading to that change. To suggest that the climate is simply warming quickly without making attempts to understand why is simply lazy and ignorant.

 

As has been pointed out repeatedly, all current information points to the fact that human activity is the single largest contributing factor right now to the warming trend. Saying this in no way implies that the Earth does not go through natural cycles and fluctuations. It simply shows that all current information available indicates that the trend we are currently experiencing is not the result of this natural variability.

 

 

third, the only way to study what affects climate would be to create many other earths and test them for billions of years.

That is simply untrue, and you've also spelled the word "effects" incorrectly. I advise you educate yourself on climatology somewhat before making such invalid and ignorant statements in the future. It really hurts your argument, and deteriorates the position about which you are trying to convince others.

 

You will find that nearly everyone here is willing to keep an open mind and view new data and will adjust their perceptions in the face of new evidence. However, you don't have any evidence to support your point, so you are left doing a bunch of hand-waving and trying to present strawman arguments (where you misrepresent the position of others then argue against that misrepresentation instead of their true position).

 

You are convincing nobody with this nonsense above, and I encourage you to try harder.

 

 

fourth, where did the first expert come from and who made him or her an expert?

Expert is not some binary state where someone either is or is not. It is simply a subjective label we apply to someone who has invested themselves in learning more, in studying with those who have also invested themselves in learning more, until finally they each know a tremendous amount, and the knowledge they each accumulate builds on itself in an exponential way.

 

With that said, I would like to ask what relevance your fourth question truly has to the issue under discussion. It sounds more like a trolling question, but I'm being cautious to give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

the last one may not be part of the first three, just a thought i had.

Ah... Thanks for the answer to my last question. My suggestion to you, if you are truly interested, is that you seriously consider studying abiogenesis or even cosmology, as those fields at their heart are asking "where things come from." :)

 

 

one more thing,

how do scientists know when they have run the correct test and have the right answers?

Scientists do not work in a binary state of "right" and "wrong." They approximate reality as closely as possible within margins of error. The information we have about global climate change is very well supported across multiple research modalities and the margins of error are quite slim. The correctness is supported with mountains of evidence gathered over decades of research. The science behind climate is reductionist, where faulty ideas are consistently rejected, new ideas presented, and the ones that don't work are discarded... until finally what you're left with are all of the correct ideas and concepts which most closely fit with empirical observations (a bit like natural selection, actually).

 

There are some big words in that last sentence above, so let me dumb it down a bit for those who may not read about this issue, and who don't really know any more than what they've heard regurgitated repeatedly on AM talk radio...

 

They know they are right when their models consistently and accurately align with past observations and accurately predict future trends.

 

 

My biggest point to you is that you would learn quite a lot about this issue by spending just a little time studying it. It's truly fascinating and worth the effort. You are doing yourself a great injustice if you simply repeat like a sheep the already debunked sentiments you keep hearing from the denialists. Also, if you truly learned about it, you would be much better equipped to present contradictory views and show us why your views are correct. In fact, more than doing yourself a favor by learning more, you'd be doing all of us a favor by sharing that knowledge you acquire.

 

Be true to yourself by trying to understand the true mechanisms by which nature operates, and your world will be both more enriched and more beautiful.

[goku]

i don't get my ideas from talk radio, i like listening but rarely have the chance.

even if we have a thousand years of climate records, i feel that is small when compaired to billions of years.

 

i started to spell effects with an E but an A just looked better :hihi:

[InfiniteNow]

even if we have a thousand years of climate records, i feel that is small when compaired to billions of years.

 

When compared to billions of years, that IS small. When compared to the expanse of human life on planet Earth, however, it's rather significant.

 

Choose your reference frames carefully. They matter...

 

...Especially when considering how we can choose to a) continue harming ourselves, our offspring, as well as other non-human life, or :) study the process and change our behaviors as a result of these newly acquired understandings.

 

 

You can choose to believe anything that you want to. I just ask that you at least recognize the difference between lies and truths. Be well. :hihi:

[REASON]

even if we have a thousand years of climate records, i feel that is small when compaired to billions of years.

 

Sure, but that's not the point is it?

 

Do you even believe global warming is occurring at all? If so, what do you think is causing it? There has to be a reason, right? The rate of increase is abnormal compared to historical data. Why is it happening? Why is all the reasearch conducted by scientists over the years not convincing to you? What's your issue?

 

Cedars acknowledges warming but isn't concerned. Turtle acknowledges warming but seems to feel that human causation isn't a sufficient explanation by itself, he doesn't trust the mathematical models being used, and is hard at work trying to show that underwater vocanism could be a major factor.

 

You just say it's natural. Well, the rate of change is too fast, which is why scientist believe it's not natural. What is your issue with the science? What is your explanation for the rapid warming? What, if anything, can you show us?

[Essay]

i don't get my ideas from talk radio, i like listening but rarely have the chance.

 

So where do you get your ideas?

:hihi:

[goku]

Sure, but that's not the point is it?

 

Do you even believe global warming is occurring at all? If so, what do you think is causing it? There has to be a reason, right? The rate of increase is abnormal compared to historical data. Why is it happening? Why is all the reasearch conducted by scientists over the years not convincing to you? What's your issue?

 

Cedars acknowledges warming but isn't concerned. Turtle acknowledges warming but seems to feel that human causation isn't a sufficient explanation by itself, he doesn't trust the mathematical models being used, and is hard at work trying to show that underwater vocanism could be a major factor.

 

You just say it's natural. Well, the rate of change is too fast, which is why scientist believe it's not natural. What is your issue with the science? What is your explanation for the rapid warming? What, if anything, can you show us?

 

 

that's alot of questions.

nope, i don't think there's any global warming.

i think it's important to question scientists as a system of checks and balances.

[goku]

So where do you get your ideas?

:hihi:

 

um, that's a good question. where do ideas come from?

i do alot of thinking, and sometimes thoughts just come to me when i least expect it. :)

[InfiniteNow]

nope, i don't think there's any global warming.

i think it's important to question scientists as a system of checks and balances.

 

It aboslutely is important to question scientists (everything, for that matter). However, your post seems to imply that this does not already happen, but it does.

 

It's one thing to question, it's quite another to blindly ignore their inputs when they've already successfully withstood said questions.

[Thunderbird]

Sure, but that's not the point is it?

 

 

 

You just say it's natural. Well, the rate of change is too fast, which is why scientist believe it's not natural. What is your issue with the science? What is your explanation for the rapid warming? What, if anything, can you show us?

 

Speaking of strange weather. How was yours this week?

 

Some places in southern Mo. got is much as 12'' of rain in one storm. This is not normal.:hihi:

[REASON]

nope, i don't think there's any global warming.

 

Really. And why is that?

 

 

i think it's important to question scientists as a system of checks and balances.

 

Take a look around, goku. The effects of science are everywhere.....in your house, your car, on the street, in the fields, the crops, the soils, TV, air travel, rocket launches, dog breeding, the grocery store, air conditioning, electricity, firearms, your toilet, etc., etc, etc. You walk around utilizing and benefitting from science almost everywhere you go. Do you question virtually everything man-made you come across to maintain a system of checks and balances?

 

Why global warming? You're being evasive. What does it mean for you if you were to agree it is happening? Would it make you different than most of the people you know?

[REASON]

Speaking of strange weather. How was yours this week?

 

We only had one day of rain, about an inch and a half or so.

 

But Southeastern Missouri is flooded.

 

What I have found most interesting recently is the record number of tornadoes in Missouri during the month of February. It is very unusual to have so many this early in the year.

 

I don't claim that these events are specifically related to global warming though. If climatologists are prepared to demonstrate a correlation, I'm sure I'll perk up to that.

[Thunderbird]

We only had one day of rain, about an inch and a half or so.

 

But Southeastern Missouri is flooded.

 

What I have found most interesting recently is the record number of tornadoes in Missouri during the month of February. It is very unusual to have so many this early in the year.

 

I don't claim that these events are specifically related to global warming though. If climatologists are prepared to demonstrate a correlation, I'm sure I'll perk up to that.

 

If the waters in the gulf of Mexico are warmer that usual, which they are, its global warming. This is where the water came from.

[REASON]

If the waters in the gulf of Mexico are warmer that usual, which they are, its global warming. This is where the water came from.

 

I tend to agree. The Gulf is where most all of our water comes from. Park a strong low pressure center in Oklahoma and toss in a cold front pushing down from Nebraska and we're gonna get some serious precip. ;)

[goku]

Really. And why is that?

 

 

 

 

Take a look around, goku. The effects of science are everywhere.....in your house, your car, on the street, in the fields, the crops, the soils, TV, air travel, rocket launches, dog breeding, the grocery store, air conditioning, electricity, firearms, your toilet, etc., etc, etc. You walk around utilizing and benefitting from science almost everywhere you go. Do you question virtually everything man-made you come across to maintain a system of checks and balances?

 

Why global warming? You're being evasive. What does it mean for you if you were to agree it is happening? Would it make you different than most of the people you know?

 

i believe that there are somethings that can't be explained or understood.

science created technology, there fore it is right about every thing else?

why global warming, this thread is about global warming.

i also don't believe the earth is billions of years old or that the dinosaurs where reptiles.

 

if i where to agree it would mean that i had been convinced.

[Zythryn]

i believe that there are somethings that can't be explained or understood.

science created technology, there fore it is right about every thing else?

Science is a method for describing the world we see around us. Quite often theories are refined as more evidence is discovered.

Sometimes a better theory is formed which replaces another theory which doesn't provide as good a fit to our observations.

In either case (refinement or replacement) you could say 'science' was wrong and corrected itself.

In terms of GW, we have observed that the climate is warming. If you choose to deny this observation I can certainly understand why you would deny any theory trying to explain why it is happening.

If you have any observations or evidence to base this denial on please do share it.

If you are denying it simply because you don't like science, you may be more interested in starting a new thread, or joining one of the ones that already exist, discussing the scientific theory and the philosophy of science.

[Michaelangelica]

Interesting site

BreathingEarth

 

See also my last post-quote in "Water where will it come from in 2050"

[REASON]

i believe that there are somethings that can't be explained or understood.

 

.....Such as your attitude about global warming.

 

 

science created technology, there fore it is right about every thing else?

 

No. I was reacting to your evasive statement that it is important to "question science as a system of checks and balances," which I don't believe is the real reason you reject global warming. While I agree that it is important to question information you receive, whether it be scientific, religious, political, or social, there are reasons for the skepticism. Your response did not offer your reasons, and therefore avoided my question.

 

I ask because, as I've stated more than once in this thread, I'm curious why America in particular tends to have a higher percentage of people that reject global warming science. You can offer a window into that understanding.

 

 

why global warming, this thread is about global warming.

i also don't believe the earth is billions of years old or that the dinosaurs where reptiles.

if i where to agree it would mean that i had been convinced.

 

These are basically just smart-alecky responses that allow you to avoid answering the question, goku. I admit, I like your sense of humor. You've made me laugh out loud on several occasions. But in this discussion, it only reveals your ignorance of the subject, your embarrassment with respect to your position, or your unwillingness to make yourself vulnerable.

 

Ultimately goku, you are going to believe what you want. You can only form your beliefs around what you know, you obviously believe what you're being told by those whom you give respect, and knowledgeable scientific experts on the subject are apparently unworthy of your consideration.

 

To each his own, as the saying goes.

 

But where problems exist, denial will never serve as a solution, and it will remain up to those with the courage to face them, if there is to be resolution.