My belief in Global Warming is getting shaky

[CraigD]

Did I hear the news correctly - it snowed in Florida ;) (our Oz news doesnt always get it right)

This is likely a misunderstanding of news reports of unexpected early and heavy snow in a region of Louisiana known as the Florida Parishes, such as this one. The sharing of a name of these 8 Louisiana parishes (unlike most US states, the sub-jurisdictions of Louisiana are called parishes, not counties) with the nearby state of Florida is a coincidence of American history, owing to the differences in names given to these territories by Spain and the US.

[Essay]

Snow in Louisiana! That's why they say we should call it Global Weirding, instead of Global Warming.

=== :hyper:

 

Engineerdude,

I'd like to ask for a link on this conjecture: "The Earth has been cooling for the past several years...." from your post #1062. I've recently seen this sort of statement made casually, as if everyone knows about this. Maybe I missed something, but where does this come from? I thought the past decade had been one of the hottest.

 

I think there has been a slight slowing in the rate of increase of heating (sensible heat--as measured by temperature), but that was during years which saw a large reduction in global ice mass (latent heat absorbed).

Physical State/Latent Heat

 

The PDO is an interesting topic though, deserving of it's own thread (hint, hint).

===

 

But yes, what "cooling" are you referring to when you say the "Earth has been cooling for the past several years...."

 

~ :QuestionM

 

p.s. ...and what about my comment on your experiment? ;)

http://hypography.com/forums/environmental-studies/13705-my-belief-global-warming-getting-shaky-105.html#post247861

"CO2 would affect how quickly (or not) the room cools after the heat source is removed. It [CO2] wouldn't affect the temperature of the golfball."

[froggy]

So, what am I missing?

Your missing something called 'the one percent doctrine'. Even tho the recent execution of this concept has been horribly bumbled by ningconpoops, there is some validity to the concept. Its why I carry insurance. Its not for the 99 % of the time that I drive or electicity flows thru my walls that I have it, its because the chance that I just might be wrong and dont want to lose everything and then some.

 

So, what am I missing?

You are also missing something of just as much importance, that CO2 isnt the only issue. CH4, NOx SOx Hg, Ozone in the wrong places and not enough in other, etc.... There is a very long list of other impacts on the global system that humans produce thru their land and energy practices.

 

So, what am I missing?

Lastly, you are missing the obvious economic point. Not only are we ruining our rivers and lakes and groundwater and oceans thru coal and other fuel mining, and not only are we ruining our ATM with pollutants, but we are giving away $ after $ after $ down a rat hole or even worse-into a den a theives. We have proven better ways to do the job and only hold back because of intrenched systems and interests. Make no mistake that the energy revolution will drag the US back into the economic engine that it has been for a century. Carbon credits and other pollution pricing will grease those wheels of progress.

 

 

So, what am I missing?

I think your missing the big picture, your not seeing the forest because you are trying to indentify each and every tree. Your missing more than enough proof to act in a responsable way to solve what is more than likely not, a huge issue.

[Eclipse Now]

Engineerdude, don't forget yesterday's ABC news announcements and interviews with our head climatologists.

 

10th hottest year on record globally, 4th hottest year on record in the Murray-Darling, AND it's meant to be a "cooler" La Nina year! Hmmm, yeah, global warming definitely just "went away" in 2008. ;)

[Michaelangelica]

Global methane levels move upward again

 

Tuesday, 16 December 2008 Dani Cooper ABC

rice field Costly crop: The loss of wetlands to agricultural crops has been highlighted as a possible cause behind the increase in methane levels (Source: iStockphoto)

Related Stories

 

* Soil study muddies climate change debate, Science Online, 18 Nov 2008

* Melting permafrost spews out more methane, Science Online, 07 Sep 2006

* Greenhouse methane levels stop rising

* Map: Aspendale 3195

Methane levels in the atmosphere have started to rise after almost eight years of near-zero growth, an international study says.

. . .

"After seven years [of zero growth] methane has started to rise again to growth rates of the early 1990s," Fraser says.

 

"If methane concentrations continue to grow at the current rate then it will be once again the second-most important greenhouse gas to control after CO2 over the next few decades," he says.

 

Fraser says methane accounts for about 20% of all greenhouse gases since the industrial revolution.

 

It is 20 times more potent than carbon dioxide as a greenhouse gas and comes from sources such as natural wetlands, rice fields, fires, coal mines and natural gas reticulation.

 

Emissions have been balanced over the past decade by natural sinks that absorb the gas and through oxidation into the atmosphere.

 

Fraser says sources of methane have been growing with drainage of tropical wetlands for agricultural use and increased fossil fuel use.

Global methane levels move upward again (ABC News in Science)

Nice theory, but I am not sure anyone knows what the hell is going on with methane.

[Eclipse Now]

Thanks for that.

 

Now, this "20 times more powerful than Co2" is an interesting abbreviation, because isn't it something like 70 times more powerful with the refraction process but has a different lifespan in the atmosphere so they divide it by the time difference to come up with only 20 times as powerful?

[freeztar]

Thanks for that.

 

Now, this "20 times more powerful than Co2" is an interesting abbreviation, because isn't it something like 70 times more powerful with the refraction process but has a different lifespan in the atmosphere so they divide it by the time difference to come up with only 20 times as powerful?

 

It depends on what time frame you're looking at. Methane is 70 times more powerful than CO2 in the 20 year span, but drops to 20x over 100 years, which is what most regulators use. Here's a nifty tidbit on global warming potential.

 

Global warming potential - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Michaelangelica]

Thanks for that freeztar

Tim Flannery told me that methane had been stable or dropping for eight years and no-one had aclue as to why..

[freeztar]

Thanks for that freeztar

Tim Flannery told me that methane had been stable or dropping for eight years and no-one had aclue as to why..

 

Somehow, I wasn't aware that methane levels have dropped off for the past eight years. Thanks for the info!

 

It seems they are increasing again:

 

Methane levels increasing worldwide: study (ABC News in Science)

 

From my understanding, the big methane threat is in the frozen tundra of Siberia. As it warms, the methane there will be released in vast amounts, causing further warming and more melting etc. etc.

 

It's the runaway positive feedback loops that are really going to bite us if things spiral out of control.

[Eclipse Now]

Watch ABC's Catalyst on methane. It's good.... but I can't remember if it has the footage of methane bubbling up from the floor of the Arctic circle. There's columns of methane bubbling up from the ocean floor, as well as under the Siberian tundra.

 

Anyone see footage of scientists collecting methane in a plastic bag from tundra bubbles, and then narrowing the bag's "mouth", turning it right side up, and lighting the escaping methane? Pretty graphic.

[Michaelangelica]

2008 Among 10 Warmest Years On Record

Thursday, 18 December 2008, 1:20 pm

Press Release: United Nations

 

2008 Among 10 Warmest Years On Record, UN Reports

New York, Dec 17 2008 3:10PM

 

The year 2008 is likely to rank as the 10th warmest year on record since the beginning of the instrumental climate records in 1850, although the global average temperature was slightly lower than previous years of the 21st century, according to the United Nations meteorological agency.

 

The combined sea-surface and land-surface air temperature for 2008 is estimated at 0.31 degrees Celsius © or 0.56 Fahrenheit (F), above the 1961-1990 annual average of 14C, or 57.2F, while the Arctic Sea ice volume during the melt season was its lowest since satellite measurements began in 1979, the UN World Meteorological Organization (WMO) said.

 

The average temperature of 2008 was moderated by La Niña, a weather phenomenon that shrinks the warm pool water in the central and western Pacific, which developed in the latter half of 2007.

 

Climate extremes, including devastating floods, severe and persistent droughts, snowstorms, and heat and cold waves, were recorded in many parts of the world, with above-average temperatures all over Europe and a remarkably cold winter over Eurasia stretching from Turkey to China, causing hundreds of casualties in Afghanistan and China.

 

In North America, February was a cold month with average daily temperatures in the Midwest of the United States ranging from 4C to 5C below normal in some areas, while in South America a very cold episode due to an early Antarctic air mass saw minimum temperature drop below –6C in May in central Argentina breaking annual absolute minimum records.

 

Conversely, mean July temperatures were more than 3C above average in large parts of Argentina, Paraguay, southeast Bolivia and southern Brazil, making it the warmest July in the last 50 years for many locations, while November broke historical records with central Argentina, including Buenos Aires city, experiencing its warmest November in 50 years.

 

In southern Australia, March brought a record heat wave with Adelaide experiencing its longest heat wave on record – 15 consecutive days of maximum temperatures above 35°C. Several heat waves also occurred in south-eastern Europe and the Middle East during April, with a very warm spring also observed in a large part of the rest of Europe and Asia.

 

Prolonged drought hit most parts of the southeast of North America at the end of July and hindered efforts to contain numerous large wildfires in California, while southern British Columbia in Canada experienced its fifth driest period in 61 years. In Europe, Portugal and Spain had their worst drought winter in decades, while in South America, a large part of Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay an intense drought which caused severe damage to agriculture.

Scoop: 2008 Among 10 Warmest Years On Record

[Eclipse Now]

Nice report, thanks for that link.

[Michaelangelica]

Yet another report

 

Is global warming preventing an Ice Age?

Dec. 17, 2008

 

Is global warming preventing an Ice Age?

 

Still seems to be a connection in everone's mind like:-

GW=hot/hotter

When in fact-

GW= Climate Change.

[freeztar]

Still seems to be a connection in everone's mind like:-

GW=hot/hotter

When in fact-

GW= Climate Change.

 

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

:hihi:

 

The problem is, it's much more difficult to analyze climate change compared to temp change. AGW is still a convincing theory, but indeed, it does not usually account for outlying climatic effects.

[Flying Binghi]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

The problem is, it's much more difficult to analyze climate change compared to temp change. AGW is still a convincing theory, but indeed, it does not usually account for outlying climatic effects.

 

Can somebody please tell Greenpeace ....:)

 

YouTube - A Polar Rescue http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WHYpYI8eXqw

[CraigD]

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

:naughty:

 

The problem is, it's much more difficult to analyze climate change compared to temp change. AGW is still a convincing theory, but indeed, it does not usually account for outlying climatic effects.

Can somebody please tell Greenpeace ....:)

Funny video, with a seasonal touch :doh:

 

While all but the most credulous children know no fat guys in red suits and sled-pulling caribou inhabit the Arctic Ocean pack ice, what the video alludes to, the shrinking of the Arctic Ocean icepack, is very real, and makes for dramatic graphics – see Arctic ice levels at record low opening Northwest Passage - Wikinews, the free news source, and this hypography post, which predates the major news by a couple of years. Being as its supporters and staff read and watch the news at least as closely as most people, I’m certain Greenpeace is as aware of it as any group of people.

 

Though images of drowning polar bears (and now seasick Santas, thank you very much :)) dominate the general media concerning the AOPI, many see a positive side to it. Since 2000, many yachtsfolk and some test commercial shipping has made the Northwest Passage, which was impassable and sought-after for centuries, demonstrating that it’s become a viable summer shipping lane. It may within a decade become viable year-round. Though the lack of major population centers that far north diminish business interest in this development, a generation of shippers and yachtsfolk are literally gaining a new ocean, making this IMHO an exciting time to be alive.

 

I’ve been sending out feelers for the last year for interest in a 2015-ish Arctic cruise. According to some of the most speculative empirical predictions, by then there’ll be clear water all the way to the geographic and magnetic north poles. Regardless of ones vision of the causes and consequences of global climate change, the prospect of reaching the north poles by surface boat is pretty amazing!

[Michaelangelica]

Oil Spray Reduces Greenhouse Gas Emissions From Pig Finishing Barns

 

The study revealed average emissions of 32.5 g methane and 15.8 g carbon dioxide per day per animal unit (500 kg animal live weight) from the two barns.

 

Treatments of oil sprinkling, misting of essential oils, and misting of essential oils with water reduced the average emissions of methane by 20% and of carbon dioxide by 19%.

Oil Spray Reduces Greenhouse Gas Emissions From Pig Finishing Barns

Weird

 

Does Global Warming Lead To A Change In Upper Atmospheric Transport?

 

ScienceDaily (Dec. 24, 2008) — Most atmospheric models predict that the rate of transport of air from the troposphere to the above lying stratosphere should be increasing due to climate change.

 

Surprisingly, Dr. Andreas Engel together with an international group of researchers has now found that this does not seem to be happening. On the contrary, it seems that the air air masses are moving more slowly than predicted. This could also imply that recovery of the ozone layer may be somewhat slower than predicted by state-of-the-art atmospheric climate models.

Does Global Warming Lead To A Change In Upper Atmospheric Transport?