Evolution Must Be Taught in Public Schools

[Thunderbird]

How is one to find reason within the religious paradigm?

 

Reason is in the realm of science. your proving my point by not understanding at all what I said. Read the post again'

[The D.S.]

Sorry, Thunderbird, I mis-read ur last post and it makes perfect sense. I have blonde moments, forgive me :doh:

[Thunderbird]

Thunderbird is right. If you somehow convinced me that Evolution was true, it would override my religious beliefs. If I convinced you that Creation was true, it would (obviously) override your beliefs in evolution, and I would have to convince you that the Bible is true.

 

You also completly misunderstood what I said.

[Thunderbird]

Read again

 

This will never work anyway until you guys realize that religious and scientific view points are two separate paradigms, and can never be replaced by one dominating over the other. If you don’t get that you will never every be able to understand what mind and spirit represent.

[moyself]

Probably preaching? Give me a break. :doh: Everyone wants to be a martyr these days. Hopefully no one keeps you waiting. Meantime, the topic is science. :doh:

 

http://hypography.com/forums/history-forum/13372-judgment-day-intelligent-design-trial.html?highlight=creationism+case

 

what makes you think I want to be a martyr? does it even have anything to do with this?

[InfiniteNow]

If you somehow convinced me that Evolution was true, it would override my religious beliefs.

Why is your view of god so limited and tiny that the beauty which is evolution by natural selection cannot be included?

 

 

Who are YOU to tell God what can and cannot be true?

 

 

 

Also, in a previous post, I said "equivocating," which has nothing to do with "commitment."

 

 

 

I said this in reference to your comment about "believing" evolution:

 

Equivocation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[The D.S.]

Mind and Spirit represent two entirely different realms, one of truth and the knowable, the other of opinion and the unknowable.

 

Plato adressess such a topic in his book, Republic, by contrasting the Philosophers and the Sophists. He states that one is a lecturer of truth while the other preaches falseness and lies.

[moyself]

Okay this is going to be hard. More than 3 people trying to talk to me... Well, D.S., last Sunday we talked about how the end of the world is possibly near because more of the prophecies have been fulfilled.

 

Wow I really need my teacher's help hehe. But anyways he said that the Bible predicts a rapid advancement in technology, which, as you can tell, has happened recently. The Bible also predicts that every country will turn on Israel. While this has not happened yet, some political people, like Ron Paul(blech), have talked about not helping Israel, just one step closer. I can't remember anything else right now and I'm trying to help my brother with math homework.

 

And Infinite,

God and Evolution cannot go together. The Bible clearly states that God created every individual being, while Evolution says that we began by chance

[The D.S.]

So the Bible has, somewhat, predicted all these things?

 

It would seem to me that first I need this:

 

1. Where does it state these predictions and how?

2. Are there any futuristic predictions it has failed/not gotten right?

3. How sure are you that such things aren't just darts somewhat close to the bullseye, meaning, that is just a nice coincidence for believers that a book told them this?

 

Im sorry for all the questions, its merely a part of my nature to rattle the cage of reason and force out knowledge :doh: as for ur time constraint...by all means take ur time in answering me. Thanks.

[InfiniteNow]

And Infinite,

God and Evolution cannot go together. The Bible clearly states that God created every individual being, while Evolution says that we began by chance

 

Actually, you're thinking of abiogenesis, not evolution.

 

Evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

And it's not "chance." It's adaptation, and suitability to one's environment.

[moyself]

So the Bible has, somewhat, predicted all these things?

 

It would seem to me that first I need this:

 

1. Where does it state these predictions and how?

2. Are there any futuristic predictions it has failed/not gotten right?

3. How sure are you that such things aren't just darts somewhat close to the bullseye, meaning, that is just a nice coincidence for believers that a book told them this?

 

Im sorry for all the questions, its merely a part of my nature to rattle the cage of reason and force out knowledge :doh: as for ur time constraint...by all means take ur time in answering me. Thanks.

 

If I only had an hour to sit down with someone and get all of this written down. I am trying to study the Bible myself, but I'm not so good at doing that. I would have to read about 250+ pages, not to mention study in detail each one. Right now I am reviewing the prophetic books of the Bible and looking for these things.

[The D.S.]

lmao, moyself, this is a forum! i encourage u to take the time u need to back up ur claims, for i would indeed need the same if i were in ur shoes.

[Turtle]

what makes you think I want to be a martyr? does it even have anything to do with this?

 

It was a metaphor for getting banned for preaching on this science site. Not a particularly unique occurence. :doh:

 

If I only had an hour to sit down with someone and get all of this written down. I am trying to study the Bible myself,...

 

Is that the Catholic Bible? King James? Original Greek? Gnostic Gospels too, or not so much? :doh:

[REASON]

What is the need of either of you (D.S. and moyself) to convince the other of what you choose to believe? Why must moyself believe evolution? Why must D.S. believe creationism?

 

One thing that I gather from each of you in the limited number of posts that I've read of yours, is that your religious or scientific belief systems are perfecly consistent with your education and life experiences.

 

If you are confident in your own beliefs, it is not necessary to convince anyone else.

 

Now, if you're going to come here and start making claims, you had better be prepared to back them up. Scientifically, that's going to be much easier for an evolutionist to do since there is nothing provable with creationism. Belief in creationism is strictly reliant on faith. It is a choice that is made despite evidence in support of evolution. An independent and free individual should be allowed to make that choice, no matter how irrational it appears to someone else. But if you are going to come here to discuss creationism, be prepared to have your faithful thinking thoroughly challenged.

 

Unfortunately, this thread is dedicated to discussing the importance of teaching evolution in our public schools. How 'bout we keep the focus on that.

[moyself]

It was a metaphor for getting banned for preaching on this science site. Not a particularly unique occurence. :doh:

 

 

 

Is that the Catholic Bible? King James? Original Greek? Gnostic Gospels too, or not so much? :doh:

 

I am reading the NIV. and I get your metaphor now:)

 

and reason I will get off this thread soon, so don't worry

[The D.S.]

I see your point, Reason, and the hint is duely noted. I would like to point out why I am trying to convince moyself of my views.

 

As long as religion exists in the world we shall find those that oppose scientific claims and hinder societies educational and knowledgable process forward. I am merely trying to do society a favor by starting a new age of reason and try, keyword try, to get the religious to see that logic and reason define our very world, not an un-seeable God.

 

By the way, I happen to find nature and evolution no less amazing as the idea of God, and I think that our very life in this world is amazing and awe inspiring by itself, to think that mathematics and science define our very world makes me tingle.

[CraigD]

If they won't do that [public schools teach creationism], then parents who want their child to learn about Creation should be able to withdraw them from a class that teaches Evolution

I think this claim is fallacious.

 

Preventing children from having a conventional education – for example, not allowing them to study evolutionary biology – does not teach anything. To learn creationism – or any religious or secular subject – children must receive instruction or self-study in the subject. Preventing them from studying one subject does not cause them to learn another.

 

The implication of moyself’s claim – which is, in my experience, a common one among people self identifying as Biblical fundamentalists – is that knowledge of evolutionary biology prevents one from learning creationism. Evidence exists to support this implied claim – according to numerous polls and studies, such as this 2005 Harris poll, self-reported belief in creation is greatest among people who have not completed high school and lowest among people with some post graduate education, falling below 50% for those who have graduated college.

 

Although one could reasonable conclude from this that parents who are creationists, and wish for their children to share their beliefs, should strive to prevent them from completing high school and college – I think this is a very bad idea. Rather, I think such parents should encourage their children to succeed in school – including having a sound understanding of evolutionary biology – and a deep knowledge of religious writings and traditions – not only their own, but of many religious and cultures.

 

The idea that religious belief is strengthened by the lack of knowledge and understanding of either secular or religious ideas is, I think, profoundly wrong.