Hello! and a lingering question...

[The D.S.]

Hey!

 

Well, I'm new to Hypography (obviously) and although I've been a member for some time I rarely seem to get on to make posts, view others, and read things of interest. However, as of late I have become more and more interested in people that share my passion for knowledge, understanding, and overall wisdom of the world we live in. I believe far too few ask the questions that are truly pertinent to life and here's where we get our chance to shine.

 

So...on that note I ask my first question.

 

As of late, I have been plagued by the question of "does God exist?". My fiance and I have frequent debates on this topic and although I call my self "agnostic" I also happen to lean very close to the side that does NOT believe in God. She claims that this world is "far too amazing and beautiful for a God to have not created it". My response is almost always "why can't a garden be beautiful without imagining fairies exist in it as well?".

 

Clearly my question is this- I wish to discuss claims of God and claims against his existence and I don't want opinions...I want factual evidence that can be defined and supported. I'm welcome to all viewpoints. Thanks and let the fun begin! :doh:

[Boerseun]

Hi there!

 

Golly, 8 posts in THREE YEARS? Jeez, your keyboard must still be smelling like the factory in China that gave birth to it!

 

Any case, on to your lingering question:

 

You're looking for "factual evidence" regarding God's existence/non-existence. Problem is, that belief in any deity of any flavour requires a leap of faith; that's why it's called "religion", and hence there can be no backing empirical evidence to support or disprove it.

 

It simply exists outside the realm of science, or, in my opinion, solely in the minds of those believing in it.

[REASON]

Hi D.S.,

 

Welcome back to Hypo. :doh:

 

The key to this type of discussion, particularly with a loved one, is to avoid allowing yourself or the other person to get upset as you discuss your beliefs. As Bo said, there is absolutely no way to prove or disprove the existance of God so you are simply left with your unsubstantiated beliefs. And there is nothing wrong with simply having unsubstantiated beliefs, the problem begins when you start judging others for not sharing them. You may very well need to agree to disagree at the point you feel the discussion start to get heated.

 

I am an agnostic as well because it seems to be the only reasonable position to take from a reality based standpoint, and I don't believe any God who could create the entire universe would condemn me for taking such a stance considering he is unwilling to reveal himself openly. And, I am comfortable in that I know I live my life in consideration of others. No matter what any human generated religious doctrine implies, no reasonable God would condemn me to an eternity of misery, despite the life I've lead, simply for questioning his unrevealed existance. If God were my creator, than he created me with scepticism, and it doen't seem fair to then condemn me for utilizing it.

 

When it comes to faithful belief, I find myself most interested in what it is at the root level that motivates a person to choose to form their beliefs as they do. For example, is it because they don't know any better, because they want to feel apart of a group, or is there another emotional element driving their beliefs. If you can get at that without coming across as prying, or attacking their emotional security blankets, it can be very revealing as to how they form their world view. If you and someone else are willing to be open about these inner feelings, you'll likely develop a deeper appreciation for each other despite your differences of opinion.

 

I have come to believe that one of the primary motivators that drives people toward religious faith is their inherent fear of death, and the promise of an afterlife. Being the only species that can actually ponder what it means to die, believing that we can continue on beyond our death, and spend an eternity with our loved ones is a powerful motivator for religious faith, as opposed to believing that you will lose consciousness forever. It is rooted in our survival instincts shared by all living things, and it is powerful enough to subvert the rational minds of most people who claim to have such faith.

 

Another powerful emotional motivator for many appears to involve group association. People, generally speaking, don't like to feel like the oddball. Considering the substantially higher percentage of people who are religiously faithful, to belive in agnosticism or atheism places you in the oddball minority of rational thinkers. For some, this is home, but for most people, being in the unfaithful minority is an uncomfortable place to be.

 

These beliefs are perpetuated generationally as religiosity is typically passed on to children who can become indoctrinated into their parents' religious belief system from a young age. One grows up saying, "I am Baptists", or "I am Jewish", becoming wholly what they have been taught. That's why when you attack someone's religious beliefs, they interpret it as an attack on their person.

 

These beliefs are often at the core, so my recommendation is that you tread lightly if challenging the religious beliefs of someone you care about. And try to understand that their beliefs may not actually be indicative of who they are as a person, which is where your evaluation of them should be focussed.

 

Good luck, and you can rest assured, it will definitely be a learning experience. :weather_rain:

[CraigD]

Because they were more of a theological than an introduction/greeting discussion, the remaining posts of this thread have been moved to the Theology forum thread 14172.