Is religion harmful to society?

[litespeed]

TO ONE AND ALL

 

I have had it up to my eyeballs with false quotations from the Koran. This sort of thing has been going on for years. One of the first rediculous item had a qutation something like this "The Eagle will descend upon you etc etc". This after 9/11.

 

I forget the actual citation number, but it was rediculous. And I posted back to the sender with the actual text from the citation number, and cautioned against taking such things without checking them out. I must confess, I did just that. I took Modest at face value.

 

We now know how much value that has.

[litespeed]

Reason

 

By now you should have realized my mistake, as I have confessed, in taking Modest as a serious poster. I believe the moderator should take action against such behaviour. It is not only dishonest, it is disrespectful.

[modest]

...false quotations from the Koran...

 

It's right here:

 

CRCC: Center For Muslim-Jewish Engagement: Resources: Religious Texts

 

5.14, as I indicated. Please calm down litespeed. Nobody's trying to pull one over on you.

 

~modest

[litespeed]

Modest:

 

Your Koranic citation was a complete fiction. I suggest the moderator take action against you for dishonesty, as he did against me for immoderate lanquage.

[litespeed]

Once again, here is the actual translation from the citation YOU provide. It says NOTHING about "Taking a Convent".

 

[5.13] But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others).

[REASON]

Reason

 

By now you should have realized my mistake, as I have confessed, in taking Modest as a serious poster. I believe the moderator should take action against such behaviour. It is not only dishonest, it is disrespectful.

 

It says "covenant" not convent. I take it you don't know the difference. Look it up.

 

modest is a moderator and a serious poster. In fact, he is one of the most respected members of this site. He has provided acurate information which I challenge you to refute with something other than your lame comments and accusations.

 

You, on the other hand, are proving to be suspect as a rational poster here, and I wouldn't doubt it if you are on the verge of finding yourself bannished from yet another forum.

 

I suggest if you would like to continue contributing here that you get your act together rather quickly.

 

One man's opinion.

[modest]

5.14, not 5.13. Also, it says "covenant", not convent. The word does not mean what you think it means.

[pamela]

Litespeed you have posted 5:13 and Modest has posted 5:14

from the Quran

[litespeed]

PS

 

I suspect even the word 'convent' is a typo. Covenant seems to fit much better. But this is little more then commentary on your transgression.

[CraigD]

What Moontanman is saying is written into the Qur'an,

Originally Posted by Q.5.14

From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.

So, Islamic forces took a convent of nunns. And apparently killed all of them. And THIS is what you provide me as evidence of Roman Catholic Corruption that influenced The Prophet?

Litespeed, you are confusing “covenant” – an agreement or promise – with “convent” - a house of nuns.

 

If this was an honest mistake, please read more carefully before posting. If it’s meant to be humorous, please take it to the watercooler. This is the wrong forum for elaborate jokes. ;)

[modest]

It's OK litespeed, it's an honest mistake. Your action is actually understandable given the misunderstanding. If I thought somebody was making up verses in order to incite violence, then I'd probably react about like you did.

 

It's not a problem.

 

~modest

[litespeed]

Modest

 

You are correct in pointing out to my dyslexic mind the word WAS covenant. So where did you get YOUR post that Islamic forces "...took a convent.."?

[litespeed]

Oh jeez. 5.14.

 

I am going to have a beer and just go to bed. However, I am still waiting for some sort of confirmation Roman Catholic Corruption was a significant problem on the Arabian Peninsula in the Prophet's time.

 

None-the-less, my own humiliation is complete.....

[Moontanman]

Oh jeez. 5.14.

 

I am going to have a beer and just go to bed. However, I am still waiting for some sort of confirmation Roman Catholic Corruption was a significant problem on the Arabian Peninsula in the Prophet's time.

 

None-the-less, my own humiliation is complete.....

 

Actually if you had read what I said it was the perceived corruption of the scriptures that allowed Mohammad to justify forming his own religion. Not the corruption of the church it's self although I am sure there was plenty of it. Many people of the time didn't exactly agree with the four gospels and thought the other gospels available at the time should have been included. This slight was just an excuse but hey when you are starting your own religion any excuse is a good excuse :hihi: This entire exchange was a comedy of errors, jumping to conclusions is easy, jumping back from them is a little harder.

[litespeed]

Back From The Crypt - I will attempt better scholarship and less jumping to conclusions. However, results may vary...My interesst today is now limited to civilizations that may have been brought low by religion. I believe one or another poster actually stated that all past civilizations were so destroyed.

 

One of the most significant civilizational decline is that of the Roman Empire. IMHO it both arose and declined due to climate change. Specifically, the Roman era was even warmer then now - Britain was a major wine exporter, for instance.

 

The advance of agriculture into previously unproductive areas permitted the Romans to confiscate the excess and feed very large numbers of non-agricultural workes. The Army, for instance, huge brigades to build the road systems, aqueducts and public works. In fact, the entire population of Rome was alloted the modern equivalent of food stamps for a long period of time.

 

Then the climate got colder. Agriculturally productive areas retracted. Worse, the peoples of Northern Europe moved South as a result. And the larger result is well documented. In addition, the Roman Government evacuated the area for Constantinope. THAT is were Christianity became the state religion.

 

This Byzintine Empire lasted many centuries hence. It was, infact, brought to a final end by Islamic Forces. In that sense, the Byzintine Empire WAS brought low by 'Religion". Though not theologically, but through military force.

 

Does anyone have evidence either the Western or Eastern Roman Civilizations was brought low by an internal religion?

[litespeed]

This brings me to Mesoamerican Civilizations. Precolumbian civilizations came and went, but I am unaware that their religions were the culprit. On the contrary, the civilizations encounterred by the Conquistadors were thriving, dispite their pre-occupation with human sacrifice. The pros-and cons of this religion I leave for a later discussion.

 

However, the civilization fell from two sources, neither one of them religious in nature. First, of course, the Conquistadors were militarily triumphant, not because of the Jesuits they brought, but because of the horse and firearms they brought.

 

The most important source of their decline, non-the-less, was smallpox. I have seen estimates that up to 90% of the population was lost to this one disease.

[litespeed]

VIKINGS

 

One well documented case of climate effecting history is rise of the Vikings. The peoples living in upper mountainous areas were forced into plundering those on lower and warmers slopes. This pattern continued till they reached the shores, where then expanded their plundering ways to England, Normandy, and the Russian heartland.

 

In fact, I believe I have read these settlements resulted in the establishment of Russian Civilization. I think the term RUS is a Viking term. In any event, the Vikings did not destroy either British or French civilizations, and seem to have been instrumental in establishing Russia.

 

None of these things seem related to any relegious beliefs.