Does the Soul have Mass?

[MegaManiac]

Not sure if this is the right forum to post this in, but I'd like to hear some member opinions on this subject (the soul having mass).

 

I'm not the science or physics geek the everyone else seems to be. But that's why I'm here. To learn, not so much to teach :shrug:.

 

MM

[freeztar]

Have a look at this wiki on Duncan MacDougall.

 

This thread might better be suited to the Theology or Philosophy forums.

[REASON]

A Soul has about as much mass as any other idea.

 

One would have to be able to detect a soul in order to determine whether it had mass, or energy for that matter.

 

So far, none detected.

[MegaManiac]

Have a look at this wiki on . . .

 

:hyper: I know I'm new here Freeztar, but I promise to at least cover the basics when posting a question/thread. I'm not NEARLY as smart (<- loosely used) as 95% of the members here. But I will aways do my basic homework before looking to others for answers. For what I lack in technical aptitude, I make up for in joules. You'll never see me talking about formulas and calculations, unless I have to.

 

How can I explain me better . . . ( I love to explain me, lol :shrug:)

 

Freeztar, lets say you're the guy that works out the physics behind an action. I'm they guy that can walk up and apply the physics without ever having to work out the formulas.

 

A bank shot in basketball is a great way to illustrate my point. You would work out the entire shot in physical math or whatever. I walk up and look at the shot, be the shot and make the shot (in 1 shot). All the while everyone else is mapping out the shot on paper and checking their calcs, I am already celebrating with the cheerleading squad in the shower room :hyper:.

 

To be honest, I thought I was pretty smart OR smarter than the average bear, but you guys blow me away around here with your math and science :smart:.

 

Thanks for the URL. Wiki is actually the first place where I had originally gotten my info and read up on MacDougall's experiments & basic theory. Wiki is generally one of my first stops when I'm looking for answers.

 

I just can't help but to think there has got to be something to this theory.

 

Just incase my point(s) got lost among my palabar, I'm looking to hear what has not already been written on sites like wiki and thought I'd at least get the benefit-of-the-doubt that I already know the basics. And I'll always try to know the basics before looking to our members for answers.

 

Thanks for your post!!! Can u tell I'm giving u a hard time here. I'm trying to be subtle about it ;).

 

:wave:

______MNM______

[InfiniteNow]

The question in the thread subject is a bit like asking, "what is the color of unicorn piss?" :shrug:

[freeztar]

I just can't help but to think there has got to be something to this theory.

 

Why?

 

As REASON pointed out, it's a concept, or idea. As such, it has no weight to speak of. It's like asking how much happiness weighs. :shrug:

[MegaManiac]

The question in the thread subject is a bit like asking, "what is the color of unicorn piss?" :shrug:

 

Interesting way to put it Infinite and I guess your somewhat right. But I guess I'm looking for someone to post their thoughts and theories. Like I said, I just feel there has got to be some truth. I have no hard facts or data to base this on. Just a feeling like it makes sense.

 

:hyper:

______MNM______

[MegaManiac]

Why?

 

As REASON pointed out, it's a concept, or idea. As such, it has no weight to speak of. It's like asking how much happiness weighs. :shrug:

 

Doesn't E=MC2 have any bearing on this topic? Matter and energy are really different forms of the same thing. Matter can be turned into energy, and energy into matter. Energy can not be created or destroyed. Just transformed/transferred.

 

Are we just chemical based power plants. So when we die we just shut down like an old power plant.

 

MNM

[MegaManiac]

A Soul has about as much mass as any other idea.

 

One would have to be able to detect a soul in order to determine whether it had mass, or energy for that matter.

 

So far, none detected.

 

:shrug: Don't we basically have to operate under the assumption that the mass exists becuase the energy exists? Therefore, we must accept that we just haven't figured out how to quantify that mass .

 

MNM

[REASON]

:hyper: Don't we basically have to operate under the assumption that the mass exists becuase the energy exists? Therefore, we must accept that we just haven't figured out how to quantify that mass .

 

MNM

 

It sounds to me like you are suggesting that it is known that soul *energy* exists. :shrug:

 

What gives you that idea?

 

How can any detectable bodily energy be defined as soul energy?

[MegaManiac]

Have a look at this wiki on Duncan MacDougall.

 

This thread might better be suited to the Theology or Philosophy forums.

 

This is not :naughty: philosophical and hardly theological :doh: !

 

Wouldn't it really be quantum mechanics. Where do those energy molecules go? How are they transformmed or transferred

 

The following is borrowed from (Vivio Calendar) .hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/inteng.html

 

Internal energy is defined as the energy associated with the random, disordered motion of molecules. It is separated in scale from the macroscopic ordered energy associated with moving objects; it refers to the invisible microscopic energy on the atomic and molecular scale.

For example, a room temperature glass of water sitting on a table has no apparent energy, either potential or kinetic. But on the microscopic scale it is a seething mass of high speed molecules traveling at hundreds of meters per second. If the water were tossed across the room, this microscopic energy would not necessarily be changed when we superimpose an ordered large scale motion on the water as a whole.

 

WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL THE ENERGY (TEMPERATURE, KINETIC & OTHERWISE)!!!!!!!!

 

Mass is just a super concentrated form of energy!

 

HERE'S A THEORY:

 

We cyclically become one with the universe momentarily or longer . . . Until we coaless with an object of mass. Again, working under the assumption that all energy has mass has energy has mass has energy, etc etc etc.

 

:wave:

______MNM______

[REASON]

How can any detectable bodily energy be defined as soul energy?

 

My question still applies.

[MegaManiac]

It sounds to me like you are suggesting that it is known that soul *energy* exists. :naughty:

 

What gives you that idea?

 

How can any detectable bodily energy be defined as soul energy?

 

I'm speaking of all energy present in the body at the time of death. Temperature, kinetic, microscopic, etc. THE ESSENCE OF US is ALL of those energies combined. And we as humans want to label them. So if you wanna call it soul energy go ahead.

 

I'll call it aggrigate energy that people like to label as the soul becuase they possess spirit. And we can't imagine that spirit no being one forever and intact. I say that energy is absorbed by one or more bodies of mass. Microscopic or otherwise.

 

I AM NOT WILLING TO ACCEPT THAT EVEN MICROSCOPIC ENERGY DOESN'T HAVE MASS. WE JUST CAN'T MEASURE IT RIGHT NOW.

 

And until someone can convince me otherwise, I stand by the reasoning that there is much to be considered on this topic. I believe it to have some substance.

 

MNM

[MegaManiac]

My question still applies.

 

REASON - your labeling it as soul energy. I'm not! So you better answer your own question here my friend.

 

I'm just stating a fact that energy has mass. That mass can't be created or destroyed. Only transformed or transferred. So what the hell happens to all the energy that kept us alive when we are dead.

 

Perhaps the energy turns into gas? :naughty:

 

An ideal gas is defined as one in which all collisions between atoms or molecules are perfectly eleastic and in which there are no intermolecular attractive forces. One can visualize it as a collection of perfectly hard spheres which collide but which otherwise do not interact with each other. In such a gas, all the internal energy is in the form of kinetic energy and any change in internal energy is accompanied by a change in temperature.

 

Internal energy involves energy on the microscopic scale. For an ideal monatomic gas, this is just the translational kinetic energy of the linear motion of the "hard sphere" type atoms, and the behavior of the system is well described by kinetic theory. However, for polyatomic gases there is rotational and vibrational kinetic energy as well. Then in liquids and solids there is potential energy associated with the intermolecular attractive forces. A simplified visualization of the contributions to internal energy can be helpful in understanding phase transitions and other phenomena which involve internal energy.

 

MNM

[MegaManiac]

A Soul has about as much mass as any other idea.

 

One would have to be able to detect a soul in order to determine whether it had mass, or energy for that matter.

 

So far, none detected.

 

BS! For example: we've never detected or seen a white hole but isn't it somewhat accepted that they exist provided they are the end of a worm hole.

 

Plus, if you don't hear a smell free fart. It still exists, we just didn't detect it from the person who squeezed it out.

 

I don't accept the general thinking that if we can't detect something it doesn't exist. We just havent figured out how to detect, or measure it if you will.

 

MNM

[InfiniteNow]

BS! For example: we've never detected or seen a white hole but isn't it somewhat accepted that they exist provided they are the end of a worm hole.

No, it's not.

 

 

Plus, if you don't hear a smell free fart. It still exists, we just didn't detect it from the person who squeezed it out.

Yes, we can.

 

 

I don't accept the general thinking that if we can't detect something it doesn't exist.

I don't think that's the "general thinking." I agree that just because we lack technology to detect something does not mean it does not exist. However, you're assuming that the soul exists, without providing any parameters or clear definition. You mentioned something about "the aggregate energy" that is in the body at death, but that's not very useful.

 

Your current approach is no different to suggesting that unicorns exist, and the only reason people argue against unicorns is because they haven't been detected. That's rubbish.

 

It's not that we lack technology to detect a soul. It's that nobody has yet to define it in a manner that allows detection.

 

"Well... It's that thing... you know... that only humans have... and, uhh... it like kinda makes us special... and .... Oooh... I've got it... It's like an essence or something... yeah... that's it....Essence."

 

 

:naughty:

[REASON]

REASON - your labeling it as soul energy. I'm not! So you better answer your own question here my friend.

 

I'm just stating a fact that energy has mass. That mass can't be created or destroyed. Only transformed or transferred. So what the hell happens to all the energy that kept us alive when we are dead.

 

Perhaps the energy turns into gas? :doh:

 

An ideal gas is defined as one in which all collisions between atoms or molecules are perfectly eleastic and in which there are no intermolecular attractive forces. One can visualize it as a collection of perfectly hard spheres which collide but which otherwise do not interact with each other. In such a gas, all the internal energy is in the form of kinetic energy and any change in internal energy is accompanied by a change in temperature.

 

Internal energy involves energy on the microscopic scale. For an ideal monatomic gas, this is just the translational kinetic energy of the linear motion of the "hard sphere" type atoms, and the behavior of the system is well described by kinetic theory. However, for polyatomic gases there is rotational and vibrational kinetic energy as well. Then in liquids and solids there is potential energy associated with the intermolecular attractive forces. A simplified visualization of the contributions to internal energy can be helpful in understanding phase transitions and other phenomena which involve internal energy.

 

You can sit here and pose your definitions of matter and energy all you want. The title of this thread is "Does the Soul have Mass?" and you are claiming that bodily energy has mass, and that bodily energy is therefore what constitutes the soul. All I offered was the question, "how can any detectable bodily energy be defined as soul energy?" I believe the soul is nothing more than a concept, and therefore doesn't have mass or energy, other than the energy required to think of it.

 

So far, your only explanation is:

 

I'm speaking of all energy present in the body at the time of death. Temperature, kinetic, microscopic, etc. THE ESSENCE OF US is ALL of those energies combined. And we as humans want to label them. So if you wanna call it soul energy go ahead.

 

So it is actually YOU who is labeling it as such. I have done nothing of the sort. To me energy is just that, energy. It is always conserved, and it is always taking different form. If you want to suggest that our internal energy is what constitutes our souls, hey, bully for you. But I will remind you that the various forms of energy present in our bodies are typical of the types of energy found throughout nature.

 

If not, than you have yet to define a soul and therefore cannot posit whether or not it has mass.

 

 

I AM NOT WILLING TO ACCEPT THAT EVEN MICROSCOPIC ENERGY DOESN'T HAVE MASS. WE JUST CAN'T MEASURE IT RIGHT NOW.

 

And until someone can convince me otherwise, I stand by the reasoning that there is much to be considered on this topic. I believe it to have some substance.

 

Well you see, this is what's great about being an individual, you can believe whatever you want. What will continue to remain in question is whether what you believe is reasonable.

 

 

BS! For example: we've never detected or seen a white hole but isn't it somewhat accepted that they exist provided they are the end of a worm hole.

 

Plus, if you don't hear a smell free fart. It still exists, we just didn't detect it from the person who squeezed it out.

 

I don't accept the general thinking that if we can't detect something it doesn't exist. We just havent figured out how to detect, or measure it if you will.

 

Well then from this line of thinking, everything you can imagine therefore exists, whether it's detectable or not. :naughty:

 

How about fire breathing dragons, fairies, ghosts, spirits, god, heaven, hell, anal probing aliens, magic spells, or INow's favorite, purple unicorns? Do all of these things exist, but "we just haven't figured out how to detect, or measure" them? :wave:

 

You'd do better to come at this from the opposite direction. It doesn't actually exist until it can be predictably demonstrated to exist. This is what science is all about.