Urantia Book: Complications and Contradictions

[Michaelangelica]

SPIRITUAL EFFECTS OF 'MUSHIES' LINGER

The effects of psilocybin from so-called magic mushrooms last for more than a year, and may offer a way to help patients with fatal diseases or addictions.

Spiritual effects of 'mushies' linger (ABC News in Science)

How come there is a theology forum on a science forum website?

[Majeston]

Actually in spite of the comments of the last couple of pages and the bait offered and taken to color this aspect of the debate, the real issue is the fact that the success of a species over time has everything to do with the richness and diversity of the gene pool.

 

Whether you wish to examine "pure breed" dogs or European Upper Classes in the 18th-20th century, there are oodles of studies that show that "selection for traits" is a sure way to ensure that a sub population becomes sickly and dies from the effects of inbreeding.

 

The problem with Eugenics is not really the moral repugnance of it--which is surely still a valid argument--but the fact that over time trying to breed a "super race" is absolutely guaranteed to result in failure. Every study of selection backs it up.

 

The fact that Urantia places it on a pedestal does not speak well for its inerrancy...

 

Your betters have endur'd me say my mind, and if you cannot, best you stop your ears, :hihi:

Buffy

 

"

 

Hybridization of superior and dissimilar stocks is the secret of the creation of new and more vigorous strains. And this is true of plants, animals, and the human species. Hybridization augments vigor and increases fertility. Race mixtures of the average or superior strata of various peoples greatly increase creative potential, as is shown in the present population of the United States of North America. When such matings take place between the lower or inferior strata, creativity is diminished, as is shown by the present-day peoples of southern India.

 

Race blending greatly contributes to the sudden appearance of new characteristics, and if such hybridization is the union of superior strains, then these new characteristics will also be superior traits.

 

As long as present-day races are so overloaded with inferior and degenerate strains, race intermingling on a large scale would be most detrimental, but most of the objections to such experiments rest on social and cultural prejudices rather than on biological considerations. Even among inferior stocks, hybrids often are an improvement on their ancestors. Hybridization makes for species improvement because of the role of the dominant genes. Racial intermixture increases the likelihood of a larger number of the desirable dominants being present in the hybrid.

 

For the past hundred years more racial hybridization has been taking place on Urantia than has occurred in thousands of years. The danger of gross disharmonies as a result of crossbreeding of human stocks has been greatly exaggerated. The chief troubles of "half-breeds" are due to social prejudices.

 

.............>>>>Page 921 After all, the real jeopardy of the human species is to be found in the unrestrained multiplication of the inferior and degenerate strains of the various civilized peoples rather than in any supposed danger of their racial interbreeding.

 

[Presented by the Chief of Seraphim stationed on Urantia.]"

[CraigD]

Race mixtures of the average or superior strata of various peoples greatly increase creative potential, as is shown in the present population of the United States of North America. When such matings take place between the lower or inferior strata, creativity is diminished, as is shown by the present-day peoples of southern India.

Please back up the claim that the present-day population of the US is more creative than that of southern India with links or references.

 

This claim conflicts with my personal, anecdotal experience with people from southern India. Though, as with people of other ethnicities and national origins, some southern Indians have struck me as mere clever bureaucrats, other have impressed me highly with their creativity, drive, and cultural richness.

 

From math and science literature, I’m acquainted with many Indians, many of them from the southern part of the country, who can be described as no less than creative geniuses, notably mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan and mathematical physicist Satyendra Nath Bose (Though Bose is from central, not southern, India). It’s not, IMHO, an exaggeration that math and science would not be what they are now if not for the work of just these two early 20th century men, both of whom had to overcome strong resistance from Europeans who believed that, despite their early academic accomplishments, their work should not be taken seriously because of their ethnicity.

As long as present-day races are so overloaded with inferior and degenerate strains, race intermingling on a large scale would be most detrimental, but most of the objections to such experiments rest on social and cultural prejudices rather than on biological considerations.

Please back up the claim that present-day races with links or references.

 

I’m aware of no sound scientific evidence that this is true. Moreover, recent detailed study of genetics on the molecular level has resulted in a consensus among molecular biologists that the term “race” is useful only as a social construct, and is not very useful or predictive in the classification of genes and traits.

[Caligastia]

I’m aware of no sound scientific evidence that this is true. Moreover, recent detailed study of genetics on the molecular level has resulted in a consensus among molecular biologists that the term “race” is useful only as a social construct, and is not very useful or predictive in the classification of genes and traits.

 

Self-identified race correlates very strongly with a large number of genetic markers. This shows that race is more than a "social construct".

 

Genetic Structure, Self-Identified Race/Ethnicity, and Confounding in Case-Control Association Studies

[Caligastia]

"

 

Hybridization of superior and dissimilar stocks is the secret of the creation of new and more vigorous strains. And this is true of plants, animals, and the human species. Hybridization augments vigor and increases fertility. Race mixtures of the average or superior strata of various peoples greatly increase creative potential, as is shown in the present population of the United States of North America. When such matings take place between the lower or inferior strata, creativity is diminished, as is shown by the present-day peoples of southern India.

 

Race blending greatly contributes to the sudden appearance of new characteristics, and if such hybridization is the union of superior strains, then these new characteristics will also be superior traits.

 

As long as present-day races are so overloaded with inferior and degenerate strains, race intermingling on a large scale would be most detrimental, but most of the objections to such experiments rest on social and cultural prejudices rather than on biological considerations. Even among inferior stocks, hybrids often are an improvement on their ancestors. Hybridization makes for species improvement because of the role of the dominant genes. Racial intermixture increases the likelihood of a larger number of the desirable dominants being present in the hybrid.

 

For the past hundred years more racial hybridization has been taking place on Urantia than has occurred in thousands of years. The danger of gross disharmonies as a result of crossbreeding of human stocks has been greatly exaggerated. The chief troubles of "half-breeds" are due to social prejudices.

 

.............>>>>Page 921 After all, the real jeopardy of the human species is to be found in the unrestrained multiplication of the inferior and degenerate strains of the various civilized peoples rather than in any supposed danger of their racial interbreeding.

 

[Presented by the Chief of Seraphim stationed on Urantia.]"

 

Looks like something Hitler would have agreed with eh?:hihi:

 

You guys really need to take a chill pill before you start shouting "nazi".

[C1ay]

How come there is a theology forum on a science forum website?

 

Sometimes cat owners buy their pets toy mice to play with so their cats can have fun batting them about while honing their hunting skills. The theology forum here draws mice in for us to play with.:hihi:

 

Actually, it was originally our intent to create a forum where the sociological aspects of religion could be discussed since sociology is a legitimate science. In hindsight I don't think many visitors here really want to discuss that aspect of it.

[Caligastia]

These six evolutionary races are destined to be blended and exalted by amalgamation with the progeny of the Adamic uplifters. But before these peoples are blended, the inferior and unfit are largely eliminated. The Planetary Prince and the Material Son, with other suitable planetary authorities, pass upon the fitness of the reproducing strains. The difficulty of executing such a radical program on Urantia consists in the absence of competent judges to pass upon the biologic fitness or unfitness of the individuals of your world races. Notwithstanding this obstacle, it seems that you ought to be able to agree upon the biologic disfellowshiping of your more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks.

 

This is hardly a call for a radical selective breeding program. According to the UB we don't have any competent judges of biological fitness.

[Caligastia]

Briefly, what is it you object to in the Bible?

 

Here's one example:

Atonement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[freeztar]

These six evolutionary races are destined to be blended and exalted by amalgamation with the progeny of the Adamic uplifters. But before these peoples are blended, the inferior and unfit are largely eliminated. The Planetary Prince and the Material Son, with other suitable planetary authorities, pass upon the fitness of the reproducing strains. The difficulty of executing such a radical program on Urantia consists in the absence of competent judges to pass upon the biologic fitness or unfitness of the individuals of your world races. Notwithstanding this obstacle, it seems that you ought to be able to agree upon the biologic disfellowshiping of your more markedly unfit, defective, degenerate, and antisocial stocks.

 

This is hardly a call for a radical selective breeding program. According to the UB we don't have any competent judges of biological fitness.

 

I fail to see how this is not a radical call for genetic "cleansing".

[modest]

This is hardly a call for a radical selective breeding program. According to the UB we don't have any competent judges of biological fitness.

 

Keep reading, it's a few paragraphs down:

 

But while the pure-line children of a planetary Garden of Eden can bestow themselves upon the superior members of the evolutionary races and thereby upstep the biologic level of mankind, it would not prove beneficial for the higher strains of Urantia mortals to mate with the lower races; such an unwise procedure would jeopardize all civilization on your world. Having failed to achieve race harmonization by the Adamic technique, you must now work out your planetary problem of race improvement by other and largely human methods of adaptation and control.

 

Care to retract your statement?

 

~modest

[Caligastia]

Do you see that you have provided no support? That you have only made jest and statements of negation? Do you see that doing that is a sophomoric debate tactic and not up to snuff here at Hypography? Do you see the mountain of contradictions and complications growing against the idea that supernatural beings authored this work?

 

Please do not make a hasty reply. If you're not familiar with the Gnostic writings, please read them. I recommend Elaine Pagels' books as a good start. If you have not read any of these works or scholarly reviews of them, you won't be prepared to compare them to TUB as I am set to do, and that is obviously an empty argument from ignorance stratagem. You may as well familiarize yourself with decades of Biblical Archaeology Review magazines, as I intend to employ information from that resource in comparison to TUB as well. :lol: ...........:hihi:

 

PS page 1343 from the author(s): bolding mine.

 

You've combined one statement that says they used all sources of record with another that states that they used "the lost record of the apostle Andrew" and the gospels of "Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John". I fail to see how these statements contradict one another. In no way do they imply that the "Andrew, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John" writings are the only human sources they used.

 

With regard to science in the UB, I will defer to the link that Majeston already posted:

http://www.ubhistory.org/Documents/AISSSSSSSS_GlasziouK_196.pdf

Has anyone actually read this yet?

 

I think one of the questions that needs to be answered is "why don't the Urantia Papers contain scientific information that would remove all possible doubt that they are what they say they are?". If you read the part of this link that covers free will you will have your answer.

[Caligastia]

I fail to see how this is not a radical call for genetic "cleansing".

 

Is everyone on this planet fit for parenthood in your eyes?

[Caligastia]

Keep reading, it's a few paragraphs down:

 

 

 

Care to retract your statement?

 

~modest

 

Nope!:hihi: "Human methods of adaptation and control" does not necessarily refer to selective breeding.

[Caligastia]

Here are some more quotes that will confound those who accuse the UB of Nazism:

 

Variety is indispensable to opportunity for the wide functioning of natural selection, differential survival of superior strains.

 

Differences in status of the races and of groups within each race are essential to the development of human tolerance and altruism.

 

There is no such thing as a "chosen people." The rule of the Most Highs, the overcontrollers of political evolution, is a rule designed to foster the greatest good to the greatest number of all men and for the greatest length of time.

 

Between the level of the individual human being and the level of the total of mankind, all groupings and associations are relative, transitory, and of value only in so far as they enhance the welfare, well-being, and progress of the individual and the planetary grand total--man and mankind.

[modest]

But while the pure-line children of a planetary Garden of Eden can bestow themselves upon the superior members of the evolutionary races and thereby upstep the biologic level of mankind, it would not prove beneficial for the higher strains of Urantia mortals to mate with the lower races; such an unwise procedure would jeopardize all civilization on your world. Having failed to achieve race harmonization by the Adamic technique, you must now work out your planetary problem of race improvement by other and largely human methods of adaptation and control.

 

Nope!;) "Human methods of adaptation and control" does not necessarily refer to selective breeding.

 

You are either unwilling to admit what is written or you are incapable of understanding it. It says that the Adam-eugenics program of some 37,000 years ago didn't happen as it should have so it is now our job to impliment "race improvement" ourselves (humans) by using methods of [procreation] control.

 

This is exactly opposite of what you stated earlier. The only display of integrity you could possibly now have is to admit your statement was false.

 

You are misrepresenting what the book says - It says it very clearly and you are fooling no one.

 

~modest

[freeztar]

I think one of the questions that needs to be answered is "why don't the Urantia Papers contain scientific information that would remove all possible doubt that they are what they say they are?". If you read the part of this link that covers free will you will have your answer.

 

That's ludicrous. That passage about free will starts with a false premise: We can not have freewill if we know the possible retribution of our actions. It seems that you are applying this to the "science" of the UB. So are you saying that the science is implicity hidden from us, or that it is wrong to trick us?

 

This reminds me of a typical Christian reply to a questioning of god: "God is testing your faith"

[Caligastia]

You are either unwilling to admit what is written or you are incapable of understanding it. It says that the Adam-eugenics program of some 37,000 years ago didn't happen as it should have so it is now our job to impliment "race improvement" ourselves (humans) by using methods of [procreation] control.

 

This is exactly opposite of what you stated earlier. The only display of integrity you could possibly now have is to admit your statement was false.

 

You are misrepresenting what the book says - It says it very clearly and you are fooling no one.

 

~modest

 

My statement was that the UB does not call for radical selective breeding. Some very limited selective breeding should be safe though. You've subsequently quoted "human methods of adaptation and control" as refuting my statement that radical selective breeding is not called for. It doesn't refute what I said because "human methods of adaptation and control" does not necessarily refer to selective breeding. It could refer to embryo selection, for example.