Urantia Book: Complications and Contradictions

[REASON]

It is not like the "bible" or book of Mormon; Koran; Keys of Enoch; Cayce; or anything else you have or will come across.

 

While the Urantia Papers may be unlike any of those other scriptures, your faith in them is the same.

[Majeston]

The Big Bang Never Happened

 

"In the next millennium scientists and other people looking back likely will regard it much the way we look back on the cosmology of Aristotle, a quaint theory that people believed in for a while."

 

 

The Urantia Book

[Moontanman]

Thanks Moontan,

I am quite well aware of the elemental proportions which you cite as your "proof". They are incorrect. The spectral analysis and conclusions are incorrect.

 

41:6.1 In deciphering spectral phenomena, it should be remembered that space is not empty; that light, in traversing space, is sometimes slightly modified by the various forms of energy and matter which circulate in all organized space. Some of the lines indicating unknown matter which appear in the spectra of your sun are due to modifications of well-known elements which are floating throughout space in shattered form, the atomic casualties of the fierce encounters of the solar elemental battles. Space is pervaded by these wandering derelicts, especially sodium and calcium.

 

What evidence do you have that would refute spectral evidence? the so called unknown spectral lines you speak of are just regular matter lines that are displaced by speed absorption and distance. No unknown elements or lines exist.

 

41:6.2 Calcium is, in fact, the chief element of the matter-permeation of space throughout Orvonton.

>>>>>

41:6.7 It should be remembered that spectral analyses show only sun-surface compositions. For example: Solar spectra exhibit many iron lines, but iron is not the chief element in the sun. This phenomenon is almost wholly due to the present temperature of the sun's surface, a little less than 6,000 degrees, this temperature being very favorable to the registry of the iron spectrum.

 

True, iron does appear but it is still a tiny component of the sun and this can be seen by the spectral lines, th entire contents of the sun can be seen in it';s spectral lines not just the surface. what you say is nonsensical to the laws of physics.

 

>>>>>>>>12:4.14 Although your spectroscopic estimations of astronomic velocities are fairly reliable when applied to the starry realms belonging to your superuniverse and its associate superuniverses, such reckonings with reference to the realms of outer space are wholly unreliable. Spectral lines are displaced from the normal towards the violet by an approaching star; likewise these lines are displaced towards the red by a receding star. Many influences interpose to make it appear that the recessional velocity of the external universes increases at the rate of more than one hundred miles a second for every million light-years increase in distance. By this method of reckoning, subsequent to the perfection of more powerful telescopes, it will appear that these far-distant systems are in flight from this part of the universe at the unbelievable rate of more than thirty thousand miles a second. But this apparent speed of recession is not real; it results from numerous factors of error embracing angles of observation and other time-space distortions.

 

 

All these things are taken into account by astronomers and science. all you have is the book of Urantia and no other source to back it up. I'll tell you again you cannot use the book of Urantia to back up it's own predictions.

 

12:4.15 But the greatest of all such distortions arises because the vast universes of outer space in the realms next to the domains of the seven superuniverses, seem to be revolving in a direction opposite to that of the grand universe. That is, these myriads of nebulae and their accompanying suns and spheres are at the present time revolving clockwise about the central creation. The seven superuniverses revolve about Paradise in a counterclockwise direction. It appears that the second outer universe of galaxies, like the seven superuniverses, revolves counterclockwise about Paradise. And the astronomic observers of Uversa think they detect evidence of revolutionary movements in a third outer belt of far-distant space which are beginning to exhibit directional tendencies of a clockwise nature.

 

Please stop insulting me by using claims from this book to back up the claims in this book. If you have no independent verification of this stuff it cannot be used as fact or even evidence.

 

I am working on presenting the 6 items I promised you, maybe I will give you 10 or 20 depending on your and others attitude, as well as my own. I'd just like the presentation to be as coherent as possible, nothing is going to be "proven" here and I'm sure no minds or positions changed by any of the material. What you don't seem to understand is that The Urantia papers are unlike anything else you have ever experienced or will ever experience. They are an "epochal revelation" of spiritual truth to Earth. A gift so to speak. They are not a scientific treatise although the science is probably 100% accurate allowing for an original typo or translation phenomenon such as confusion between mass and size. The science comprises perhaps 100 or so pages of a 2100 page revelation. It is not like the "bible" or book of Mormon; Koran; Keys of Enoch; Cayce; or anything else you have or will come across.

 

Urantia is exactly like those books except it has the nerve to make claims about science that cannot be backed up.

 

Thanks Cal for your words of wisdom and advice, but how can I really take the Cal handle seriously. In this gathering of forces though, I suppose I should be grateful for any help I get from whatever source. :P

 

Please don't use the book to verify your claims when you present the six things we talked about, it really makes you look like you are just not trying.

[Moontanman]

The Big Bang Never Happened

 

"In the next millennium scientists and other people looking back likely will regard it much the way we look back on the cosmology of Aristotle, a quaint theory that people believed in for a while."

 

 

The Urantia Book

 

Then again the Urantia book will be thought of as another bull **** religion that tried to establish it's self through misdirection, obfuscation and lies.

[Majeston]

Moontan,

 

if you find yourself in LA next week drop by UCLA, the Urantia "bookies" with that bullshit religion have leased the entire campus for a week for their world conference. I'm sure we can give you a few minutes of stage time so you could address the entire assembly in person with your thought and ideas.

Urantia Book Fellowship Conference July 2nd <-> 6th 2008 - UCLA IC08 - God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit

[Caligastia]

Thanks Cal for your words of wisdom and advice, but how can I really take the Cal handle seriously. In this gathering of forces though, I suppose I should be grateful for any help I get from whatever source. :D

 

I realize I didn't choose the best UB name for my handle, but I've used it for years now so I'm used to it. And what's in a name? I'm sure there must be another personality out there somewhere with this name...someone who didn't betray their trust. Don't think I'm a fan of the Caligastia described in the UB - it's just a name.

[Moontanman]

Moontan,

 

if you find yourself in LA next week drop by UCLA, the Urantia "bookies" with that bullshit religion have leased the entire campus for a week for their world conference. I'm sure we can give you a few minutes of stage time so you could address the entire assembly in person with your thought and ideas.

Urantia Book Fellowship Conference July 2nd <-> 6th 2008 - UCLA IC08 - God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit

 

The size of a pile of bull **** doesn't change the fact it's bullshit. Proving your book Of Urantia will take more than a leased campus and lots of followers. Simply showing it has a basis in reality would be far more proof than a trillion people saying it's true.

[Moontanman]

So I guess that instead of giving me the six things in the book of Urantia that can be proved with science you are going to ignore me? You agreed to do this and said you could do it. So far all you have done is.....

 

Make claims with no proof

Use the Urantia writings as proof to prove the urantia writings

And last but not least try to show how they must be true because you can rent a university campus to spew the writings to your own followers.

Wow too bad I live about as far from that university as I can get and still be in the Continental US. How wonderful it must be to be in the midst of all that mental masturbation.

[Majeston]

Moontan,

 

I think you have been off your meds for too long. It would seem to me that anyone who is in as much pain as you seem to be might be a little less arrogant with what you think you know. A little bit of spiritual solace might comfort such a broken body and chemically addicted mind. It may also help to give you a bit of patience in this McDonalds generation. You are not the only one who has experienced physical pain. I have generously and selflessly offered you some spiritual comfort and eternal enlightenment to which you have only responded with derision and ridicule. I happen to know of a place in Hawaii where you can have both spiritual enlightenment and relief from your daily pain as well as stimulating scientific and metaphysical discussion.

The Religion of Jesus Church - The Holy Herb

[Majeston]

I realize I didn't choose the best UB name for my handle, but I've used it for years now so I'm used to it. And what's in a name? I'm sure there must be another personality out there somewhere with this name...someone who didn't betray their trust. Don't think I'm a fan of the Caligastia described in the UB - it's just a name.

 

 

Cal,

 

don't be so sure. How many Lucifer's or Judas's or Hitler's do you know?

 

:naughty:

[Moontanman]

Moontan,

 

I think you have been off your meds for too long. It would seem to me that anyone who is in as much pain as you seem to be might be a little less arrogant with what you think you know. A little bit of spiritual solace might comfort such a broken body and chemically addicted mind. It may also help to give you a bit of patience in this McDonalds generation. You are not the only one who has experienced physical pain. I have generously and selflessly offered you some spiritual comfort and eternal enlightenment to which you have only responded with derision and ridicule. I happen to know of a place in Hawaii where you can have both spiritual enlightenment and relief from your daily pain as well as stimulating scientific and metaphysical discussion.

The Religion of Jesus Church - The Holy Herb

 

Majeston, I will not be baited by the likes of you, you are the lowest common denominator of human evil. A person who has no real knowledge and must follow a mystic line of bull **** to make yourself feel intelligent. I gave ample you opportunity to give some evidence of your beliefs and you couldn't so you have to attack and insult me personally. If I was a moderator I would ban you for life, there is no excuse for a person to be as arrogant as you are about nothing but a book of lies and deceit. You cannot even give me the respect of of doing what you said you would/could do, instead attacking me personally is all you can do. You are such a sad example of a human being, I pity you.

[Majeston]

Moonman,

I have nothing more to give you, you will have to find what you seek from another source. I have done nothing to justify your mean, angry, irrational attacks. You need more than I have to give. Take care.

[Moontanman]

Moonman,

I have nothing more to give you, you will have to find what you seek from another source. I have done nothing to justify your mean, angry, irrational attacks. You need more than I have to give. Take care.

 

You call me mean, angry, and irrational after you fail to offer any proof of the book of urantia other than quotes from the book of urantia even after I ask you several times not to do that and take the trouble to explain why? And then you attack me personally, insinuate I'm some sort of a drug crazed idiot and I'm mean, angry, and irrational? You have a strange view of the universe Mr Majeston, I don't think we live in the same universe at all.

[modest]

Majeston, Please note the rules for the theology forum, as well as the site rules.

 

This is a science website. People have approached you with scientific critiques and your response has consistently been to preach and proselytize your faith rather than debate the issue scientifically. This is clearly against the rules and something we do not tolerate. I suggest you reassess your tone and style if you are going to continue debating this issue.

 

~modest

[C1ay]

Thanks Moontan,

I am quite well aware of the elemental proportions which you cite as your "proof". They are incorrect. The spectral analysis and conclusions are incorrect.

 

Back it up and do so with science via the scientific method. Prove that spectral analysis of the sun is incorrect. Also understand, it is one of the rules here that you support such claims.

 

Moontan,

 

I think you have been off your meds for too long.

 

This type of personal attack is not going to be tolerated either.

[Majeston]

[quote name=

Quote:

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majeston View Post

Moontan,

 

I think you have been off your meds for too long. It would seem to me that anyone who is in as much pain as you seem to be might be a little less arrogant with what you think you know. A little bit of spiritual solace might comfort such a broken body and chemically addicted mind. It may also help to give you a bit of patience in this McDonalds generation. You are not the only one who has experienced physical pain. I have generously and selflessly offered you some spiritual comfort and eternal enlightenment to which you have only responded with derision and ridicule. I happen to know of a place in Hawaii where you can have both spiritual enlightenment and relief from your daily pain as well as stimulating scientific and metaphysical discussion.

The Religion of Jesus Church - The Holy Herb

 

 

 

Majeston, I will not be baited by the likes of you, you are the lowest common denominator of human evil. A person who has no real knowledge and must follow a mystic line of bull **** to make yourself feel intelligent. I gave ample you opportunity to give some evidence of your beliefs and you couldn't so you have to attack and insult me personally. If I was a moderator I would ban you for life, there is no excuse for a person to be as arrogant as you are about nothing but a book of lies and deceit. You cannot even give me the respect of of doing what you said you would/could do, instead attacking me personally is all you can do. You are such a sad example of a human being, I pity you.

[/quote]

 

 

This type of personal attack is not going to be tolerated either.

 

 

 

This was not a personal attack. This was an accurate observation and an offer for some spiritual comfort to someone obviously in great distress. Moontanman's response validates the observation.

If the idea here is to ban me because I support the Urantia revelation then just do it and stop making up all kinds of excuses and quoting laws and regulations; distorting meanings and taking things out of context.

[C1ay]

If the idea here is to ban me because I support the Urantia revelation then just do it and stop making up all kinds of excuses and quoting laws and regulations; distorting meanings and taking things out of context.

 

No, the idea here is that you back up your claims in a scientific fashion. This is a science forum and our rules are comprised accordingly. If you're going to make an absurd assertion that spectral analysis is flawed then you are going to support that claim and you are not going to use your Urantia book to do so. If you don't like our rules then go make your own forum and your own rules. If you want to play here then you are going to do so according to our rules. Capisci?

 

As for whether or not your remark was a personal attack or not is a metter of interpretation. You may not mean it as an attack but if it offends the one you're directing it at then it is. Moontanman made it clear that he took your remark as an attack and an insult and considering the curt manner in which it was made I can see why he would take it that way.