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[coberst]

“I love the smell of napalm in the morning”

 

America has 1.4 million in the military with 900,000 Reserves. All of these are hired-hands; all are volunteers seeking a job. Of these, 42 % are racial or ethnic minorities. Of these, 6.5% have had “some kind of exposure to college education”.

 

The economy today fights the war in Afghanistan and Iraq at a cost 0.1% of what the economy had to pay to win WWII; this figure is based upon Defense Department budget being 4% of GDP.

 

Thus says David M. Kennedy “In the Fourth of July debate about the state of American democracy, Kennedy, a historian at Stanford, suggested that war making was becoming too easy for American policy makers.” This article appeared in “The Atlantic” magazine.

 

Kennedy didn’t mention the wealth this war effort has brought to these self-same industrial leaders who influence public policy. Also he did not mention that most, if not all, of funds on Iraq and Afghanistan war is borrowed money.

 

War: A piece of cake—for America!

 

It is human nature to constantly seek “fuel for one’s own aggrandizement and immunity”. Otto Rank says “The death fear of the ego is lessoned by the killing of the other; one buys one’s self free from the penalty of dying, of being killed”. Is there any surprise then to discover that human kind is constantly engaged in war?

 

The ego can consign others to death without a ‘second thought’, when such will provide a sense of personal security. This is why war comes so naturally for sapiens. Considering the fact that we now have the WMDs to destroy all citizens in one single cataclysm, is there any doubt regarding the necessity that humans begin quickly a process of self-learning in order to comprehend our nature so as to possibly prevent this logical fate?

 

The price of our natural animal narcissism is that we will, when pressured, willingly sacrifice another in our place; with one very remarkable exception; the exception to this rule is, of course, the hero. Heroism is an amazing reversal of the rule of routine values. Heroism is another thing that makes war so wonderful and uplifting. War has become for DickandJane a ritual for the emergence of heroes. We launch our self into uncritical hero worship as a catharsis of own fears.

 

“The logic of Scapegoating, then, is based on animal narcissism and hidden fear. If luck, as Aristotle said, is when the arrow hits the fellow next to you, then Scapegoating is pushing the fellow into its path—with special alacrity if he is a stranger to you.

 

The logic contained in killing others in order to protect our own life makes clear anything that may puzzle us regarding the frequency of war in human history. When I kill an enemy and thereby affirm the power of my life, then, certainly the staging of massive life-and-death struggles affirms our whole society. The outsider ponders known incidents when the mob delighted in watching the prolonged death of someone; we need not ponder if we comprehend sapiens’ drive to survive. “They are weak and die; we are strong and live.” “My God is stronger than your God”.

 

The Nazis provide an example of this phenomenon. The dedicated themselves to the ‘final solution’, to large scale sacrifices of human life after 1941 when it was becoming evident that they were losing. The Jews were singled out as the scapegoat for the economic and political woes of Germany in the mid twentieth century.

 

Considering our propensity for war do you think that we will ever control this urge to settle differences by killing our opponent?

 

Many of the quotes are from “Escape from Evil”—Ernest Becker

[Michaelangelica]

The economy today fights the war in Afghanistan and Iraq at a cost 0.1% of what the economy had to pay to win WWII; this figure is based upon Defense Department budget being 4% of GDP.

Half the oft quoted cost of WW2 to USA (2/3trillion?) was in the cost of the development of the atomic bomb.

Britain and most of Europe and Asia was broke/poor by the end of the war.

The USA was rich. Both in money and 'appropriated' technology and patents/inventions.

 

I don't understand the Iraq war unless it is about making more money for the USA or securing oil supplies. None of the philosophical(?) reasons you give seem to apply to this invasion.

[coberst]

Half the oft quoted cost of WW2 to USA (2/3trillion?) was in the cost of the development of the atomic bomb.

Britain and most of Europe and Asia was broke/poor by the end of the war.

The USA was rich. Both in money and 'appropriated' technology and patents/inventions.

 

I don't understand the Iraq war unless it is about making more money for the USA or securing oil supplies. None of the philosophical(?) reasons you give seem to apply to this invasion.

 

 

 

I suspect that going to war was a political consideration followed in importance by economic considerations. War with Iraq promoted the political interests of the Bush administration and they were able to sell it to the people by framing it as a defense against terrorism and terrorist armed with atomic weapons.

 

The fear the people felt made going to war a piece of cake because it was framed to touch the scapegoat consideration, fear, My God is better than your God, etc., all formations that influence human thought.

[jedaisoul]

The economy today fights the war in Afghanistan and Iraq at a cost 0.1% of what the economy had to pay to win WWII; this figure is based upon Defense Department budget being 4% of GDP.

Just a little query on your figures: Are you saying that the cost per day of 4% of GDP (per day) to fight the current wars is .1% of the cost per day in GDP terms of fighting WW2? If so, the cost per day of fiighting WW2 was 4000% of GDP (per day). Over 3 years (1942 - 1945), that would suggest that WW2 cost the USA 120 years GDP. That seems a little unlikely.

 

I suspect that you are comparing the total cost of WW2 over the three year period to the cost of the current wars in an unspecified period. If so, that is an invidious comparison, as you are not comparing like with like.

 

I know it is not central to the discussion, but I'm uncomfortable when I read statistics that I don't understand. So I'd just like an explanation of figures given.

[coberst]

Just a little query on your figures: Are you saying that the cost per day of 4% of GDP (per day) to fight the current wars is .1% of the cost per day in GDP terms of fighting WW2? If so, the cost per day of fiighting WW2 was 4000% of GDP (per day). Over 3 years (1942 - 1945), that would suggest that WW2 cost the USA 120 years GDP. That seems a little unlikely.

 

I suspect that you are comparing the total cost of WW2 over the three year period to the cost of the current wars in an unspecified period. If so, that is an invidious comparison, as you are not comparing like with like.

 

I know it is not central to the discussion, but I'm uncomfortable when I read statistics that I don't understand. So I'd just like an explanation of figures given.

 

You have a good point. The numbers do not make sense. I may have moved a decimal place when I wrote this. This was a article that I read long ago.

[UncleAl]

Marine artillery brings dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. To err is human, to forgive, divine. Neither one is Marine Corps policy. Either fully release the Marines (no Media) to do their jobs or pack up and go home. Any other alternative is madness, corruption, and stupidity.

 

WWII Japan was a racially homogeneous fanatic martyr religious State. We reasoned with Japan in a way that martyrdom was an unacceptable alternative to unconditional surrender. Muslims are similarly tractable,

 

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/kaaba1.jpg

thermonuclear hypocenter #1

 

Remember the World Trade Center? Support evolution - shoot back.

[Michaelangelica]

 

WWII Japan was a racially homogeneous fanatic martyr religious State. We reasoned with Japan in a way that martyrdom was an unacceptable alternative to unconditional surrender. Muslims are similarly tractable,

Big generalisations.

True?

Japan End WW2

The military government of Japan was certainly fanatical and pig headed. But can you say the same about the brainwashed and terrified population at large? The populace was by the end of the war living on grass and told invaders would rape and murder them.

Peace overtures had been made but the Japanese were loyal to their Emperor and wanted to keep him and not have "unconditional" surrender. This was their main "condition."

Of course they talked to the wrong people about peace Russia (USSR?) who did not relay their peace overtures to the other Allies. Thus managing to bag up a bit of Japanese territory in the process. The Emperor was the one who finally ousted the entrenched military and accepted unconditional peace.

 

Muslims

Many /most Muslims are just as appalled as we are by fanatical fundamentalists in their ranks. Just as many Christians are concerned with Christian fundamentalism. Islam like Christianity are supposedly both religions of "peace". Unfortunately along with Judaism they are among the 3 most intolerant religions of the world. Intolerance that your post displays.

 

I feel part of the "Islamic problem" is one of poor education both religious and secular. Indonesia has shown that it can teach radical Muslims that Islam is not a religion of hate and war.

 

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

[CraigD]

WWII Japan was a racially homogeneous fanatic martyr religious State. We reasoned with Japan in a way that martyrdom was an unacceptable alternative to unconditional surrender. Muslims are similarly tractable …

UncleA1’s comparison of the Muslim religion of today with the Japanese empire or the 1940s is, I think, profoundly flawed:

• Japan was/is a single state under the control of a central government. There are many states with large minority or majority Muslim populations, many of which contain large areas controlled by local “tribal” governments. The government of Japan in 1945 was capable of surrender. The literally uncounted governments of these many predominantly Muslim states are not.
  
• Related to “ability to surrender”, the armed forces of 1945 Japan were strictly obedient to their government. Present day Muslims who have, or who are planning to attack the US and nations friendly to the US appear not to obey a single, or even a small collection of governments or organizations.
  
• The population of Japan was/is a concentrated in a single place. Muslims are not. Of the estimated 1.5 billion Muslims (about 22% of the world population), only about 25% are in regions with majority Muslim populations. 5 million, about 1% of the US population, is Muslim. (source: wikipedia article “Islam by country”)
  

In short, I don’t believe a nuclear attack on a predominantly Muslim country would result in an end to conflict and improved relations between Muslims and the US. Rather, I believe that the very small fraction of Muslims involved in criminal acts against the US and other nations, both predominantly non-Muslim and predominantly Muslim, would consider such an attack a victory for their extremist agendas.

… http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/kaaba1.jpg

thermonuclear hypocenter #1

(This image contains the coordinates of and an aerial picture of the Saudi Arabian city of Mecca, greater metro population about 2.5 million)

 

I gather that UncleA1 is proposing that the US attack Saudia Arabia, specifically Mecca, with nuclear weapons. If a joke, I find it a very tasteless one. If serious, I find it a proposed crime against humanity.