Persian Gulf, Its Sediments in Ice above Asia, '= Global Flood'

[tmaromine]

This is my third post on 'facts' I've been given that prove the Bible, or some thing in it.

 

So, be there Persian Gulf sediment in ice toward the north pole / above Asia, that could have only gotten there by a global flood, since obviously the Persian Gulf is landlocked ?

 

His source, was from a History Channel episode. This one, perhaps, but I don't know.

[freeztar]

This is my third post on 'facts' I've been given that prove the Bible, or some thing in it.

 

So, be there Persian Gulf sediment in ice toward the north pole / above Asia, that could have only gotten there by a global flood, since obviously the Persian Gulf is landlocked ?

 

What 'facts'/evidence are you referring to?

How do you know that Persian Gulf sediment is in "ice towards the north pole"?

 

His source, was from a History Channel episode. This one, perhaps, but I don't know.

 

Whose source?

[tmaromine]

What 'facts'/evidence are you referring to?

How do you know that Persian Gulf sediment is in "ice towards the north pole"?

 

Him, my friend. I don't think and quite doubt I'm referring to any facts. Google seemed to be knowledgeless, based on the few terms I searched.

 

 

 

Whose source?

 

My friend's source, was History Channel.

 

EDIT: I think I've posed an almost impossible-to-answer question since I've really given nothing concrete at all. I'll tell my friend to pose ask it as a question instead of stating it as a 'fact' everyone should know based on (not always accurate, so I've read here and there) History Channel, and I'll have him find that specific episode and maybe a YouTube video of it or something somewhere.

 

But until then, either I'll find, or will be happy to receive, any sites that are specific to proving all the crazy global flood things wrong.

[REASON]

Him, my friend. I don't think and quite doubt I'm referring to any facts. Google seemed to be knowledgeless, based on the few terms I searched.

 

But until then, either I'll find, or will be happy to receive, any sites that are specific to proving all the crazy global flood things wrong.

 

tmaromine,

 

There are no facts that prove there was ever a Great Flood, period. Anytime someone tells you there is, they're either ignorant, gullable, or lying.

 

The Persian Gulf is not landlocked. If it were, it would be a lake or a sea, and we wouldn't have at least two carrier strike forces parked in it.

 

The website TalkOrigins is a great site for learning about problems with *Great Flood* theories.

[freeztar]

Mod Note: I've moved this thread to the Theology forum as it deals with proving biblical teachings and has presented no evidence, making it unsuitable for the Earth Science forum.

[Buffy]

While it does not match much of what you've described here, since its a bit too far north, the closest thing to evidence of a "flood" is the Black Sea deluge theory, which posits that a backed up Strait of Bosporus gave way, inundating the Black Sea basin, just about long enough ago that it would become a well established meme for the many Flood Myths that exist across many Eurasian peoples.

 

Other than that, as Reason mentioned, there's no evidence of any "world-wide flood."

 

It does bear mentioning that the History Channel does from time to time air "alternate theory" programs that are really more entertainment than science....

 

I maintain there is much more wonder in science than in pseudoscience. And in addition, to whatever measure this term has any meaning, science has the additional virtue, and it is not an inconsiderable one, of being true, :)

Buffy

[Turtle]

...There are no facts that prove there was ever a Great Flood, period. Anytime someone tells you there is, they're either ignorant, gullable, or lying.

 

Or, aware of particular geologic studies that indicate great flood events recorded in human history. For example, the Missoula floods that scoured out the scablands and Columbia River Gorge and told in native legends.

 

Flood Stories from Around the World

Warm Springs (Oregon):

Twice, a great flood came. Afraid that another might come, the people made a giant canoe from a big cedar. When they saw a third flood coming, they put the bravest young men and fairest young women in the canoe, with plenty of food. Then the flood, bigger and deeper than the earlier ones, swallowed the land. It rained for many days and nights, but when the clouds finally parted for the third time, the people saw land (Mount Jefferson) and paddled to it. When the water receded, they made their home at the base of the mountain. The canoe was turned to stone and can be seen on Mount Jefferson today. [Clark. pp. 14-15]

 

That said, I agree with your general tone calling the spade under the bridge that keeps digging & chiseling in an effort to somehow prove the factual content of ancient texts recording more ancient oral traditions purporting special access to uber-powerful beings only they see. :)

[REASON]

Great Flood. :shrug:

 

I should probably be more specific and say "global flood" or "great flood of the Bible" to avoid that particular conflict, huh?

 

I stand erected. :)

[Turtle]

Great Flood. :D

 

I should probably be more specific and say "global flood" or "great flood of the Bible" to avoid that particular conflict, huh?

 

I stand erected. :)

 

The devil is indeed in the details. I think the Bible flood story comes from the earlier Gilgamesh story and that it may refer to some equally regional but civilization destroying flood event. When you can only see 20 miles to the horizon and its flooded for hundreds of miles, sure looks like the world is ending. :): Nothing surprising either than some folks with common sense would get a boat and it's the surviors who tell the story after all. :shrug:

[tmaromine]

tmaromine,

 

There are no facts that prove there was ever a Great Flood, period. Anytime someone tells you there is, they're either ignorant, gullable, or lying.

 

I know, which is why I come here to you knowledgeable all, so that whomever I'm talking with can hear it from someone else than me. I'm not all that good when it comes to fact-proving, because I'm not omniscient (I fight the philosophical views much better), but I've yet to tell him that, while this flood of his happened, plants and animals lived, and dry land was formed, all while under a mile of water. Imagine that.

 

The Persian Gulf is not landlocked. If it were, it would be a lake or a sea, and we wouldn't have at least two carrier strike forces parked in it.

Yeah, I just realised that 'Gulf' gives that away (and I should've looked up a map of the Middle East first). . .and also means that currents could take Persian-Gulf unique sediment up north, after thousands of years. But I'd say that's unlikely

 

The website TalkOrigins is a great site for learning about problems with *Great Flood* theories.

 

I'll be sure he gets it.

 

While it does not match much of what you've described here, since its a bit too far north, the closest thing to evidence of a "flood" is the Black Sea deluge theory, which posits that a backed up Strait of Bosporus gave way, inundating the Black Sea basin, just about long enough ago that it would become a well established meme for the many Flood Myths that exist across many Eurasian peoples.

 

Other than that, as Reason mentioned, there's no evidence of any "world-wide flood."

 

In an unconnected world where different civilisations simultaneously exist, it makes much sense that one would claim a global flood when all it knows of the world is the village that it created around a lake.

 

 

It does bear mentioning that the History Channel does from time to time air "alternate theory" programs that are really more entertainment than science....

 

Yes, think I've heard that before. Too bad it can't be truthfully claimed as a history channel.

 

 

The devil is indeed in the details. I think the Bible flood story comes from the earlier Gilgamesh story and that it may refer to some equally regional but civilization destroying flood event. When you can only see 20 miles to the horizon and its flooded for hundreds of miles, sure looks like the world is ending. :hihi:: Nothing surprising either than some folks with common sense would get a boat and it's the surviors who tell the story after all.

 

Not to mention, when only 20 miles are visible, and the world is believed to be flat, you see the whole planet ! So if your lake floods and wipes out your village, obviously the planet has flooded. :doh:

 

 

For whatever reason that he thinks it's going to spiritually satisfy me or whatever, I have to read Revelation first before he'll (digitally) communicate with me. Guess he has a thread and a site or two to read.

[Eclogite]

There was a global flood. It occured at the end of the last glacial period. Sea levels rose dramatically. The flooding of the Black Sea, mentioned by Buffy, was only one instance. Other areas, including the Persian Gulf, the North Sea and much of what is now the South China Sea were inundated at this time.

It seems to me perfectly plausible, though not proven, that memories of these events are carried in the various flood myths.

[REASON]

There was a global flood. It occured at the end of the last glacial period. Sea levels rose dramatically. The flooding of the Black Sea, mentioned by Buffy, was only one instance. Other areas, including the Persian Gulf, the North Sea and much of what is now the South China Sea were inundated at this time.

It seems to me perfectly plausible, though not proven, that memories of these events are carried in the various flood myths.

 

Yes, but you're not implying that the entire planet was submerged at one time, just that there were large areas of flooding in various places around the world.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Eclogite

There was a global flood. It occured at the end of the last glacial period. Sea levels rose dramatically. The flooding of the Black Sea, mentioned by Buffy, was only one instance. Other areas, including the Persian Gulf, the North Sea and much of what is now the South China Sea were inundated at this time.

It seems to me perfectly plausible, though not proven, that memories of these events are carried in the various flood myths.

Yes, but you're not implying that the entire planet was submerged at one time, just that there were large areas of flooding in various places around the world.

 

Not to speak for Eclogite, but what I get here is that a global flood merely indicates world wide sea level rise and that coastlines and inland low areas get inundated. It does not mean all water and no land as you say. Moreover, such a flood is compounded in human terms because folks settle along coastlines. ;):

 

There is also the occasional tsunami to build flood myths upon.

[tmaromine]

Not to mention that in an older thread of mine we concluded that sea levels could only rise 80 feet if all the ice melts. When the world lives on coasts two thousand and more years ago, I'm sure many civilisations had numerous global floods.

 

Were humans a species during last ice age ?

[Turtle]

Not to mention that in an older thread of mine we concluded that sea levels could only rise 80 feet if all the ice melts. When the world lives on coasts two thousand and more years ago, I'm sure many civilisations had numerous global floods.

 

Were humans a species during last ice age ?

 

Oh yes indeed, if art, and porn, is any judge of our humanity. :eek:

 

Ancient Cave Art Full of Teenage Graffiti | LiveScience

Many art historians and anthropologists believe Paleolithic cave wall art was done by accomplished shaman-artists, but mixed in with the finer paintings are graffiti-like scenes of sex and hunting.

 

An analysis of thousands of paintings from the late Pleistocene epoch suggests the graffiti artists back then were likely the same as today—teenage males.

 

Most cave art from 10,000 to 35,000 years ago was done by hand, quite literally. Artists would chew up a bit of red ocher, place their hand against a wall, and spit over their hand. ...

[tmaromine]

Well, not just a species, but starting in the porn business too. Magnificent.

[HydrogenBond]

The great flood of the bible, in light of the lack of direct scientific evidence, should be taken symbolically, like a parable, and not literally. It makes more sense that it was referring to something that happened, not to the earth, but to human nature. It documents a massive psychological change in human nature, i.e., flood of emotions in which one can drown.

 

If we put those times in perspective, according to bible before the flood, humans were not progressing but were getting more bestial. From the point of view of evolution, this was a stagnation in forward progress since the highest creature should be more than a wild dog. Nature needed to make an adjustment. The great flood suggests a mass change in human nature. Those who were already on the future path, escaped the flood.

 

Let me give possible social analogy. During the 1930's, Nazi Germany was on the upswing. This generated a lot of cultural pride; superior race, with most seeing only the happy ending of the thousand year reign. Their flood came in early to mid 1940's, as their social delusion hit hard reality. The more hardline one may had been to the delusion, relative to the reality of the future, the stronger that flood-readjustment would have been. The great flood suggests a similar ancient situation. The timing after the flood ushers in the ancient powerhouse cultures, like Egypt. This could not have happened with packs of wild dogs. It needed humans to have more control.

 

The symbols after the flood are the bird with the olive branch and the rainbow. The first is a symbol of peace. It may have been sort of like a person who breaks an addiction and finally see the light of day. The colors of the rainbow, is symbolic of the emotional spectrum. The wild dogs could only feel hardness and compulsion, but now the bandwidth increased. Humans were then ripe for the next step up the ladder.